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SPL, Rangers in serious trouble

SPL, Rangers in serious trouble

Old Feb 15th 2012, 7:00 pm
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Default Re: SPL, Rangers in serious trouble

Originally Posted by Uncle Ebenezer View Post
As I thought ... absolutely zilch, as usual, to back-up your asinine pronouncements. Now, are you going to provide evidence, or are you going to admit you're full of shit?
So, fielding a team in the Olympics, as team GB, has the home nations worried that they might lose their national sides as result, but losing the Scottish and English leagues would have no impact?

http://www.morethanthegames.co.uk/fo...olympic-chance

"There is a clear danger in setting that precedent and there is no question that it will threaten the future independence of the Scotland national squad. I believe such a move, if it is allowed to proceed, would result in there being no Scotland national squad in a few short years.
"Scotland fans don't want this. The SFA don't want this



This is just an article on the EPL rejecting the idea of Celtic and Rangers joining.... let alone the idea of league system merging.
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/foo...ton-plans.html

Do I need to bother finding more... or will you just keep chucking out the insults regardless?
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Old Feb 15th 2012, 7:18 pm
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Default Re: SPL, Rangers in serious trouble

Originally Posted by iamthecreaturefromuranus View Post
So, fielding a team in the Olympics, as team GB, has the home nations worried that they might lose their national sides as result, but losing the Scottish and English leagues would have no impact?

http://www.morethanthegames.co.uk/fo...olympic-chance

"There is a clear danger in setting that precedent and there is no question that it will threaten the future independence of the Scotland national squad. I believe such a move, if it is allowed to proceed, would result in there being no Scotland national squad in a few short years.
"Scotland fans don't want this. The SFA don't want this


This is just an article on the EPL rejecting the idea of Celtic and Rangers joining.... let alone the idea of league system merging.
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/foo...ton-plans.html

Do I need to bother finding more... or will you just keep chucking out the insults regardless?
<snip>
You made the statement (not an opinion, but a statement) that the English and Scottish football associations were "dead set against" any thoughts of the Scottish leagues being merged with the English leagues. I've asked you numerous times to provide evidence of this, but you just bluster round and fail to do so.

All you can provide is evidence that the SFA are worried about the National teams losing their status, if a GB team is fielded in the Olympics - to that you add your opinion that , therefore, the idea of Scottish teams in the English leagues is a non-starter. Not a shred of evidence.

The second article you link to is about the EPL rejecting Celtic and Rangers - again, sod all to do with either FA.

Now, in terms so basic, even you can understand - do you have any evidence that the English and Scottish Football Associations are "dead set against" any joint English/Scottish football leagues? (Irrespective, as was pointed out to me earlier, that neither FA has any say who plays in either league.)

Last edited by Sue; Feb 16th 2012 at 12:24 pm. Reason: Cut out the name calling
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Old Feb 15th 2012, 7:25 pm
  #48  
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Default Re: SPL, Rangers in serious trouble

Originally Posted by iamthecreaturefromuranus View Post
So, fielding a team in the Olympics, as team GB, has the home nations worried that they might lose their national sides as result, but losing the Scottish and English leagues would have no impact?

http://www.morethanthegames.co.uk/fo...olympic-chance

"There is a clear danger in setting that precedent and there is no question that it will threaten the future independence of the Scotland national squad. I believe such a move, if it is allowed to proceed, would result in there being no Scotland national squad in a few short years.
"Scotland fans don't want this. The SFA don't want this



This is just an article on the EPL rejecting the idea of Celtic and Rangers joining.... let alone the idea of league system merging.
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/foo...ton-plans.html

Do I need to bother finding more... or will you just keep chucking out the insults regardless?
At best the article you quote is a point of view and at worst simple fear mongering and self preservation. The precedent has already been set and you need look no further than Wales whose teams play in the English Leagues and still maintain an independent national team and FA.

Similar arguments can be made elsewhere e.g. Austrian teams in Germany, German teams in Switzerland, New Zealand teams in the A-League etc. Which have not caused any break-up with their national associations. Why would it be any different if Celtic or Rangers joined the EPL or if Scotland joined in with a national GB team for the Olympics?

Additionally, both the EPL and SPL are separate corporations owned by their members - the teams. By and large both FAs have zero influence or control over their day to day operations and should Celtic or Rangers wish to be considered as members of the EPL that would be for the EPL to decide, not the FA.
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Old Feb 15th 2012, 7:32 pm
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Default Re: SPL, Rangers in serious trouble

Originally Posted by Macca67 View Post
At best the article you quote is a point of view and at worst simple fear mongering and self preservation. The precedent has already been set and you need look no further than Wales whose teams play in the English Leagues and still maintain an independent national team and FA.

Similar arguments can be made elsewhere e.g. Austrian teams in Germany, German teams in Switzerland, New Zealand teams in the A-League etc. Which have not caused any break-up with their national associations. Why would it be any different if Celtic or Rangers joined the EPL or if Scotland joined in with a national GB team for the Olympics?

Additionally, both the EPL and SPL are separate corporations owned by their members - the teams. By and large both FAs have zero influence or control over their day to day operations and should Celtic or Rangers wish to be considered as members of the EPL that would be for the EPL to decide, not the FA.
I think the main difference is that there is no view that sovereign states should not be able to have national teams, there seems to be however a view that Britain has 4 votes but one state, and that is what seems to be objected to by other FIFA members. The Welsh teams playing in England and the English team playing in Scotland has an element of grandfathering-in, but that would not be the case if this inter-FA league system was extended. As it would I think be seen as consolidation. Its what FIFA thinks that really matters.
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Old Feb 15th 2012, 7:45 pm
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Default Re: SPL, Rangers in serious trouble

Originally Posted by Uncle Ebenezer View Post
<snip>

You made the statement (not an opinion, but a statement) that the English and Scottish football associations were "dead set against" any thoughts of the Scottish leagues being merged with the English leagues. I've asked you numerous times to provide evidence of this, but you just bluster round and fail to do so.

All you can provide is evidence that the SFA are worried about the National teams losing their status, if a GB team is fielded in the Olympics - to that you add your opinion that , therefore, the idea of Scottish teams in the English leagues is a non-starter. Not a shred of evidence.

The second article you link to is about the EPL rejecting Celtic and Rangers - again, sod all to do with either FA.

Now, in terms so basic, even you can understand - do you have any evidence that the English and Scottish Football Associations are "dead set against" any joint English/Scottish football leagues? (Irrespective, as was pointed out to me earlier, that neither FA has any say who plays in either league.)
Do you keep in touch with the game in the UK at all?
Have a look at the response to the SPL's tentative suggestion to replace the two League Cup competitions with a 'British Cup'.
The response from both Football Leagues wasn't exactly positive. The English Premier League couldn't stop laughing long enough to even bother with a response.
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Old Feb 15th 2012, 7:48 pm
  #51  
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Default Re: SPL, Rangers in serious trouble

Originally Posted by iamthecreaturefromuranus View Post
Do you keep in touch with the game in the UK at all?
Have a look at the response to the SPL's tentative suggestion to replace the two League Cup competitions with a 'British Cup'.
The response from both Football Leagues wasn't exactly positive. The English Premier League couldn't stop laughing long enough to even bother with a response.
Still no evidence then?
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Old Feb 15th 2012, 8:03 pm
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Default Re: SPL, Rangers in serious trouble

Originally Posted by kimilseung View Post
I think the main difference is that there is no view that sovereign states should not be able to have national teams, there seems to be however a view that Britain has 4 votes but one state, and that is what seems to be objected to by other FIFA members. The Welsh teams playing in England and the English team playing in Scotland has an element of grandfathering-in, but that would not be the case if this inter-FA league system was extended. As it would I think be seen as consolidation. Its what FIFA thinks that really matters.
I seem to recall at the time most of that objectionable noise was coming out of Jack Warner's trap to deflect criticism of bribery and corruption allegations a lot of which was being laid down by both the FA and SFA, so not sure how much faith I'd place in that argument.

Even if there was an inter-GB league system I don't see why it follows that the national teams would merge into one - doesn't seem there's any benefit to FIFA in removing a system that both earns revenue and promotes the game. If anything there seems to be greater appetite for the creation of cross-border leagues e.g. Champions League, Europa League, etc and more importantly the money this brings into the game. Fundamentally this is what will bring about change - is there's a business/financial reason for doing so.
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Old Feb 15th 2012, 8:07 pm
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Default Re: SPL, Rangers in serious trouble

Originally Posted by Uncle Ebenezer View Post
Still no evidence then?
So a rejection by most Home Nations of the idea of Team GB in the Olympics, the EPL rejecting all advances by Celtic and Rangers, the rejection of even a tentative idea of a British Cup, isn't enough?

http://sport.stv.tv/football/scottis...sh-league-cup/

It's pretty obvious that you really don't have a clue about football in the UK. Have you ever been to a game?
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Old Feb 15th 2012, 8:08 pm
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Default Re: SPL, Rangers in serious trouble

Originally Posted by Macca67 View Post
I seem to recall at the time most of that objectionable noise was coming out of Jack Warner's trap to deflect criticism of bribery and corruption allegations a lot of which was being laid down by both the FA and SFA, so not sure how much faith I'd place in that argument.

Even if there was an inter-GB league system I don't see why it follows that the national teams would merge into one - doesn't seem there's any benefit to FIFA in removing a system that both earns revenue and promotes the game. If anything there seems to be greater appetite for the creation of cross-border leagues e.g. Champions League, Europa League, etc and more importantly the money this brings into the game. Fundamentally this is what will bring about change - is there's a business/financial reason for doing so.
I seem to remember the objection to four votes going back a long time, but I do not remember where they were coming from (and I suppose questions about Warner go back in time too) so maybe you are right.

Neither the Champions nor Europa 'leagues' are leagues; I would look at the reaction to the proposed Atlantic League for a better idea of the possibility of inter-national leagues being accepted. UEFA want to protect the smaller leagues viability. If UEFA do not accept league restructuring then it will not happen. Althought they may be bullied in to it if the league in question has enough pull.
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Old Feb 15th 2012, 8:20 pm
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Default Re: SPL, Rangers in serious trouble

Originally Posted by Macca67 View Post
At best the article you quote is a point of view and at worst simple fear mongering and self preservation. The precedent has already been set and you need look no further than Wales whose teams play in the English Leagues and still maintain an independent national team and FA.

Similar arguments can be made elsewhere e.g. Austrian teams in Germany, German teams in Switzerland, New Zealand teams in the A-League etc. Which have not caused any break-up with their national associations. Why would it be any different if Celtic or Rangers joined the EPL or if Scotland joined in with a national GB team for the Olympics?

Additionally, both the EPL and SPL are separate corporations owned by their members - the teams. By and large both FAs have zero influence or control over their day to day operations and should Celtic or Rangers wish to be considered as members of the EPL that would be for the EPL to decide, not the FA.
It's not my view of what will happen it's what the FA's fear will happen. The example of Wales is irrelevant really as it dates back to the earliest days of the formation of professional football. The other are just the odd team playing in a league, not the total merger of two of the oldest leagues in the world.

The EPL have already rejected Celtic and Rangers and on more than one occasion. They don't want them. Even if they somehow did join the EPL how would it work? Where would they be relegated too? The Football League or back to the SPL?

A merger of the SFL and the Football League has zero benefits for anybody in the Football League... that's one of the prime reasons they don't want it. It gets them nothing of any value.
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Old Feb 15th 2012, 8:23 pm
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Default Re: SPL, Rangers in serious trouble

Originally Posted by Macca67 View Post
I seem to recall at the time most of that objectionable noise was coming out of Jack Warner's trap to deflect criticism of bribery and corruption allegations a lot of which was being laid down by both the FA and SFA, so not sure how much faith I'd place in that argument.

Even if there was an inter-GB league system I don't see why it follows that the national teams would merge into one - doesn't seem there's any benefit to FIFA in removing a system that both earns revenue and promotes the game. If anything there seems to be greater appetite for the creation of cross-border leagues e.g. Champions League, Europa League, etc and more importantly the money this brings into the game. Fundamentally this is what will bring about change - is there's a business/financial reason for doing so.
...and there isn't. The Football League gains nothing by merging with a load of Scottish minnows.
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Old Feb 15th 2012, 11:48 pm
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Default Re: SPL, Rangers in serious trouble

So who here believes this is a possibility?
"It could be the best thing to happen to Scottish football - a SPL without Rangers will force a complete reevaluation and may mean Scottish football being absorbed into the English leagues"

Who here the thinks the Scottish Football League will vote themselves out of existence?
Who here thinks the Football League can see any merit in absorbing the likes of Elgin City?
Who thinks that the clubs of the EPL will vote to take in Celtic and a bankrupt Rangers and at the same time possibly vote themselves out of the EPL?
Seriously is there anybody who actually thinks, for one second, that the Scottish and English football leagues will merge? Really?

Last edited by iamthecreaturefromuranus; Feb 15th 2012 at 11:55 pm.
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Old Feb 16th 2012, 6:52 am
  #58  
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Default Re: SPL, Rangers in serious trouble

Originally Posted by DeadVim View Post
Both as bad as each other, it's all rather pathetic really.
You know all the facts then do you? Have you lived in amongst it?
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Old Feb 16th 2012, 6:53 am
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Default Re: SPL, Rangers in serious trouble

Originally Posted by iamthecreaturefromuranus View Post
So who here believes this is a possibility?
"It could be the best thing to happen to Scottish football - a SPL without Rangers will force a complete reevaluation and may mean Scottish football being absorbed into the English leagues"

Who here the thinks the Scottish Football League will vote themselves out of existence?
Who here thinks the Football League can see any merit in absorbing the likes of Elgin City?
Who thinks that the clubs of the EPL will vote to take in Celtic and a bankrupt Rangers and at the same time possibly vote themselves out of the EPL?
Seriously is there anybody who actually thinks, for one second, that the Scottish and English football leagues will merge? Really?
Me.

Obviously without Rangers.
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Old Feb 16th 2012, 7:12 am
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Default Re: SPL, Rangers in serious trouble

Originally Posted by scottishcelts View Post
Me.

Obviously without Rangers.
Really? You can see a merger of the two football leagues? Even after Scottish independence?
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