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kimilseung May 30th 2022 7:58 pm

Re: The 2021/22 Football Thread
 
A small note on organization.
When the announcement was made of a delay, due to late arrivals, then of tear gas being used, I wondered if it was more Heysel or more Hillsborough.
I find it hard to completely blame anyone for trying to get in without a ticket, as I managed to do it myself once at Wembley for a Cup final, but that was back then, and I think we all see the danger of the power of large groups of people and the deathly danger they pose in a very different light nowadays. But blame probably should be given if that was the cause of any problems. But the more that comes out the more it seems to be clear that it wasn't the crowd but disorganization.
UEFA initially seemed to try to divert any responsibility on to the crowd, but unlike the South Yorkshire police they didn't double down on it, and spread the blame around a little, along with the French police. UEFA are responsible for the stadium and its immediate surroundings, the police for the area beyond the ground.
Before kick off I had seen two video clips. One had some red shirts on one side and white on the other, and seemed to be Real fans bunking in. The other had red shirts in a crush, climbing over a low barricade of some sort, it turns out it was at the subway station, not at the actual ground. I am all for climbing over whatever you can when you are in a crowd. Climbing out of the central section at Hillsborough might have saved my life.
What is different this time is that so many journalists and the great and good associated with sponsors were caught up in it. We are getting confirmation stories from every level of society, from the scallies that are never believed by polite society to some of the royalty of the footy world and journalism.
Large numbers of ticketless fans and fake tickets. Completely believable, why wouldn't this be the case? of course this is a factor that should have been taken in to consideration in planning and organizing. But the police figures don't add up. They had said that there was a 95,000 crowd at/around the stadium, for a stadium holding 75,000. Then they said that there were 40,000 without tickets. So 55,000 with tickets. Apparently 20,000 people with tickets thought it would be better to watch on TV. I understand that these numbers are guesstimates, but the later figure is suspicious in that it feeds the narrative of ticketless fans being the problem that they are trying to promote.
How do they know the number of ticketless fans? We are told that the outer perimeter ticket checks were rejecting tickets, so they just added the numbers up. But we are being told that the outer perimeter wasn't checking tickets in many places, that many got to the stadium check and these were the first time that the tickets were checked. We also know that many of the sponsors are upset that their official tickets were rejected by the machines and that delays were caused by; having to get manual checks (well not manual, but hand held machines) So there were few early checks and the later checks were not working and rejecting genuine tickets. They have no idea how many dodgy tickets there were.
Fans arrived late What does that even mean? We again are hearing from reliable journalistic sources that the crowds were backing up early, because of the malfunctioning ,machinery. they were late in to the stadium because of delays caused by UEFA machines not working, and the failure (or lack of) outer perimeter checking.
Why weren't Real affected? I don't have an answer to this one, but I am reading that things were not perfect for Real fans, they did have issues, but not on the scale that affected Liverpool fans. I am reading that they did not have issues with Liverpool fans, but did have issues with the police and local youth.
Local Youth This sounded like bollocks when I first heard it, sounded like trying to switch any blame to the locals, but it seems to be coming from both Liverpool and Real fans. They seemed to be the majority of those trying to get in without tickets, and caused a lot of violence outside the stadium, particularly in an underpass. I'd probably dismiss it out of hand if it wasn't being said by Real fans too. It makes me uneasy as this line seems to be being pushed by the French right, as many of the locals are immigrants and Muslims. Why were the locals so keen on seeing this game? I'm a bit unsure about this one.
French police and footy this year This year hasn't been a good one for French football and crowd trouble, I wonder if this recent history got the French police a little bit too keen to over react. I have seen some videos of people just standing there ticket in hand being gassed right in their faces.
Always the victim There have been so many of these posts on social media, people are quick to assume it must be Liverpool fans fault, like nothing was learned from the propaganda from the authorities, which took about 30 years before a majority accepted that Hillsborough wasn't fans fault. More success on the pitch leads to more big games, and more chances of issues such as this, and combine that with the city that has experienced high rates of poverty, which in turn leads to high levels of distrust of authority and of course the fact that Heysel did happen. But in this case every new bit of information seems to point to poor organization and and initial attempt to blame the crowd, that seems to have eased up a bit, but still the French police seem to be accepting that they messed up but are reluctant to completely exonerate the fans who paid a lot of money to get to Paris , had tickets, and maybe got in at half time with gas in their eyes.
As many of you know I was at Heysel and Hillsborough, those experiences have scared me, I get scared in crowds to this day, it can bring me to tears on some occasions. There is a section of the stadium in Seattle that I think is a deathtrap waiting to happen and I don't buy tickets in it. I may be overly sensitive to this. I don't trust authority figures, they will lie every chance they get, to deflect, We are seeing UEFA and the French police lie, I don't know how much they have lied, they have both back tracked some what already. This is something that affect all fans, still we see football fans treated in a way not acceptable for other sports, or events. Right now I'd be all for a Super League as it would get UEFA out of it, but it would just give another authority group the opportunity to mismanage and lie. That's my rant over.

Garbatellamike May 30th 2022 9:11 pm

Re: The 2021/22 Football Thread
 

Originally Posted by SpoogleDrummer (Post 13118763)
....... and the fact he's the player that got moved when Diaz arrived makes me think we're possibly looking at getting a number 9 rather than replacing Mane like for like.

makes a lot of sense that particularly given Origi is also apparently leaving

BristolUK May 30th 2022 9:16 pm

Re: The 2021/22 Football Thread
 

Originally Posted by kimilseung (Post 13118796)
What is different this time is that so many journalists and the great and good associated with sponsors were caught up in it. We are getting confirmation stories from every level of society, from the scallies that are never believed by polite society to some of the royalty of the footy world and journalism.

And the Brit Police officers travelling with the Liverpool fans.:nod:

Scamp May 31st 2022 7:04 am

Re: The 2021/22 Football Thread
 

Originally Posted by kimilseung (Post 13118796)
We are seeing UEFA and the French police lie, I don't know how much they have lied, they have both back tracked some what already. .

Whilst I like to give Liverpool fans lots of stick, I can say that from everything coming out it seems obvious for once that the English folk weren't to blame for a shit show. It's lucky nobody got seriously hurt and the French authorities directing blame at Liverpool fans should continue to be argued, vehemently.

BristolUK Jun 13th 2022 3:13 pm

Re: The 2021/22 Football Thread
 
Kick-ins could replace throw-ins

Wenger said: “There are two big time-wasters at the moment, that is throw-ins and free-kicks..."
And what does a kicked in restart become if not a free kick?

the development of long throw specialists, who may cross the pitch in order to launch the ball into the penalty area can add to the delay
And of course there won't be players sauntering across the pitch to take the 'kick-in' will there? Nor will players look as if they are going to take it, only to then walk away and let the goalkeeper dawdle up the pitch to take it.

For the team not taking the kick-in I suppose they will all innocently stand back and not delay the taking of the kick-in like they do for free kicks. Has anyone thought that at least with a throw-in the player can throw unimpeded because there is nothing an opponent can usefully do to stop it once the ball is in hands, whereas they can stop a kick restart.

How about running down the clock by taking the ball to the corner flag. At least when a team does that they have to work the ball to the corner flag which involves some risk. Allow a kick which is longer than a throw and that makes it easier to kick the ball to the corner flag or even across the pitch to an unmarked player, thus wasting a bit more time there especially when he plays keep ball or just tries to win another kick-in and boot the ball back to the other side or up the pitch on that side.

Why not just have a bloody time limit and turn the ball over if not met, together with a proper free kick against the team preventing it?

On a side but related issue, why allow players to get a towel (not made available for the away team,, so that's already wrong) to dry the ball when a towel is not part of the official match equipment?

Having said that I've often wondered why a throw-in has to be the way it is anyway - especially when foul throws are rarely given. It's just a way of restarting play. Why not allow an underarm throw or roll?

SpoogleDrummer Jun 13th 2022 6:43 pm

Re: The 2021/22 Football Thread
 

Originally Posted by BristolUK (Post 13121598)
Kick-ins could replace throw-ins

And what does a kicked in restart become if not a free kick?

And of course there won't be players sauntering across the pitch to take the 'kick-in' will there? Nor will players look as if they are going to take it, only to then walk away and let the goalkeeper dawdle up the pitch to take it.

For the team not taking the kick-in I suppose they will all innocently stand back and not delay the taking of the kick-in like they do for free kicks. Has anyone thought that at least with a throw-in the player can throw unimpeded because there is nothing an opponent can usefully do to stop it once the ball is in hands, whereas they can stop a kick restart.

How about running down the clock by taking the ball to the corner flag. At least when a team does that they have to work the ball to the corner flag which involves some risk. Allow a kick which is longer than a throw and that makes it easier to kick the ball to the corner flag or even across the pitch to an unmarked player, thus wasting a bit more time there especially when he plays keep ball or just tries to win another kick-in and boot the ball back to the other side or up the pitch on that side.

Why not just have a bloody time limit and turn the ball over if not met, together with a proper free kick against the team preventing it?

On a side but related issue, why allow players to get a towel (not made available for the away team,, so that's already wrong) to dry the ball when a towel is not part of the official match equipment?

Having said that I've often wondered why a throw-in has to be the way it is anyway - especially when foul throws are rarely given. It's just a way of restarting play. Why not allow an underarm throw or roll?

I've seen all these suggestions such as shortening the match and stopping the clock each time the ball goes out of play, why not just leave the match length as it is and stop the clock when the ball goes out of play? I thought the whole point of time added on was to take that in to account anyways but it seems the ref can't be trusted to do that so give someone else the responsibility. It would hopefully put an end to Athletico Madrid's style of play and prats like Jordan Pickford dramatically dropping on the ball.

Garbatellamike Jun 14th 2022 10:38 am

Re: The 2021/22 Football Thread
 

Originally Posted by SpoogleDrummer (Post 13121662)
I've seen all these suggestions such as shortening the match and stopping the clock each time the ball goes out of play, why not just leave the match length as it is and stop the clock when the ball goes out of play? I thought the whole point of time added on was to take that in to account anyways but it seems the ref can't be trusted to do that so give someone else the responsibility. It would hopefully put an end to Athletico Madrid's style of play and prats like Jordan Pickford dramatically dropping on the ball.

yeah much better idea that

Former Lancastrian Jun 14th 2022 2:21 pm

Re: The 2021/22 Football Thread
 
Start dishing out more Yellow cards especially with throw ins. Perhaps Yernited need a Throw In coach as we have several players who seem to take their sweet time. It would be OK if we were winning but we are not.


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