MarkRD

I think I'll be going for the 'typically-English-lady' look so flowered frock 'eccentric' hair and best china teapot and cups out please. Your offspring should of course be in immaculate designer clothes, with headscarves around their necks in case they sweat or something.

K in Modena

You'll be wearing your bowler hat presumably, Mark?

MarkRD

Absolutely .. I'll have to grow a beard though or something to make me look a bit more academic.

...smoke a pipe perhaps

malcesine99

Like you Lorna I didn't read too much into bring up bilingual children, I think you should do what feels natural and what suits you. Though I am always interested to hear how other parents deal with this.

My nearly 12 yr old - lived in Italy til 18mths is fluent and speaks Italian with no hint of English accent. He can read a little but no writing skills as yet.

My 10 yr old - born in UK, fluent italian but with a english accent.(which everyone seems to think is cute)

My 7 yr old - conversational italian, marginally better than mine! His favourite saying is 'Io non capisco' (when he usually does).

When we first moved to UK my OH spoke Italian to son 1 and 2 but by the time Gregor arrived this had fallen by the wayside. Due the amount of time the boys stay in Italy obviously has kept their Italian up to scratch. 7 yr old gets away with his knowledge thanks to his older brothers!

The other night at dinner I suggested we try and speak only in Italian while we were at the table (obviously for everyone's benefit but mainly for mine!) This lasted all of 10 mins - it just didn't seem natural, but we will try again!

MarkRD

Sounds like our house, but the other way round. I presume you live in Scotland now, (even though you mention "English" accents..an interesting twist) and that OH is native Italian.

Of course you should do what's natural, that's the easy part. The hard part is ignoring what other people around you say.

malcesine99

Yes, still in Scotland and OH Italian - although he has a really broad Scottish accent - he works with some really rough Glaswegians and its so funny what he comes away with - 'aye that'll be right' 'by the way' (and of course some fantastic swear words!)

We really shouldn't give 2 hoots what people think but unfortunately we do!

Lorna at Vicenza

When it came to my kids, my language - I really didn't give a flying monkey's what anyone else thought and I hope that I have changed a lot of people's minds by replying honestly (and sometimes brusquely) to their ignorant and unfounded comments.

All of my family is in the UK and I was determined that my kids would be able to speak to them. It helps that my Italian is good enough to be able to reply quickly to people and tell them exactly what I think.

Years ago it was very hot and Chloe's infant school was having an end of year party at the birreria at the top of a hill. Chloe skipped up the hill and I pushed Alex up in his pushchair. I'd just got inside the grounds of the birreria and Alex asked if he could go see the donkey and as I bent down to unclip his straps I said something like "course you can sweetie. You go off and see the donkey."

This father turned to me - he was one of those who is never seen anywhere near the school all year long - and he said,
"We're in Italy. You should be speaking Italian."

It wasn't the first time I'd heard this but I was hot and bothered and desperate for a drink and sick to my back teeth of wankers like him so I turned on him and said,

'Is that so eh? So that means that if you move to America or Canada or Australia or any other country tomorrow you'll suddenly stop speaking Italian. You won't speak Italian any more and you won't want your children to speak Italian either. No more Italian because you'll be in a different country - RIGHT !"

His mouth dropped, he turned on his heel and avoided me all night. I hope he was one of those who changed his mind about other people and their languages.

I do know that most people just speak without thinking first when they say stuff like this so I hope that I have made some of them stop and actually think about what they are saying.

malcesine99

Ha! Good for you Lorna! Idiot!!

I can be a bit mouthy (not that I think you are), and I know its really childish of me I do sometimes have a wee rant in English, e.g. an old dear pushing in front of me in a 'queue' I will say 'oh what lovely manners you have, what an example you are setting', everyone's like mum shhhhh your embarrassing. I'm a parent I am supposed to embarrass you!!!

Obviously this is in Italy - I value my life and would probably get stabbed if I said that in Glasgow!!!

MarkRD

that's really funny. I expect in your neck of the woods people are pretty up on that sort of thing, when in Padania...

Joking aside I've done the same but the opposite..."Shouldn't you be speaking to your daughter in English?" "She should be bilingual then" "I'm sure she has no problems with English exams.."

Lorna at Vicenza

Speaking of Padania ..... saw some stuff in the paper about Bossi and his family and fraud (politics and fraud - no surprise) but I didn't stop to read the article.

Lorna at Vicenza

I know exactly how gobby I can be but I also keep my patience for a long time and on some days I just can't. My kids have heard me say plenty of things like yours have and have said stuff themselves sometimes. They were pretty good about saying stuff to me in English until one day Chloe mixed up and loudly said in Italian "guarda come spinge quella Signora mamma, è maleducata vero, noi eravamo prima di lei."
(look how that lady is pushing in mummy, that's rude isn't it, we were before her.)
The signora in question gave us a filthy look but I wanted my kids to know good manners and I wasn't going to tell Chloe off in a shop for telling the truth so I backed her up completely and loudly said "hai ragione tesoro, è davvero maleducata!"

If she wants to talk about people in the UK she uses Italian, and English here. We do have to be careful in airports and in Venice though

jenny g

Good afternoon to all:-)
In our household, we also had all the crap from the elementary schools whilst our children were growing up ie. 'you live in Italy now, don't speak to your children in English'. Now years on, we have 4 grandchildren...2 of them are speaking English (to me, daddy and grandad) Italian..to whoever else happens to be around and Portugese to their mother!! They have absolutly no problem what-so-ever in making them selves understood in any of the 3 languages:-)
The other 2 speak English and Italian beautifuly :-)
Don't be put down by envious Italians who can barely speak their own language!
Lorna...you really are my kind of woman!! Not in the kinky sence...but in the 'say what you think' way you have!!
Bye for now :-)

Lorna at Vicenza

Thanks.

It's funny how things have gone in phases.
In the beginning I had a fight with Enel, Telecom, the bank, the post office. Then I slowly began to realise that they didn't give a shit and the only person getting stressed or close to tears was myself.
I settled down a bit more and started to go with the flow.
Then I had my daughter and got all the old biddies and interfering sods telling me what to do and how. Soemtimes I'd just say "si si signora" and carry on my own way and then one day I decided to answer back and give the old cow what for. It felt great.

One of my great pleasures today is knowing that my kids are older now and the people who used to tell me how wrong I was, are now complimenting me for two well adjusted and well mannered kids who can swap one language for another like flicking a light switch. Now they can all **** off and eat their words.

duffer

The only time someone said anything slightly negative about speaking English to my son was when I was asked by a waiter if it was confusing for a 3 year old to speak 2 languages. I replied why would it be, especially considering places like Singapore, Malaysia, etc. it's common for children to speak in 3-4 languages from a young age, in fact my son knows almost double the number of words as someone speaking just 1 language. The waiter didn't have much more to add to that except perhaps some spit on my pizza. Apart from that, everyone is really impressed by his ability to speak and change between the 2 languages fluently and instinctively. It's also a pleasure to see him playing with his action figures, sometime voicing the figures in English and sometimes in Italian.

MarkRD

Blimey! You're a model father ... you get four stars