JACHA

Hi guys Wanted you to know how much I am enjoying the book Force of Destiny. I have always thought that Italy has been inefficient in so many ways and if as a country they wanted to compete in the world that the whole way of life would have to change. Seemed so simple to me.
However I held those views because I was ignorant. It was not meant to be condescending. As I am only part way through the book I will come back when I have finished it. So thanks for making me think and helping with my education in understanding Italy. Not sure I ever will. Pity I can't take a sickie to finish the book.
Regards

philat98

Here is an interesting article about Latina and Sabaudia, towns still fond of Il Duce.

http://www.newsweek.com/2015/04/24/m...ia-322777.html

modicasa

http://fb.me/7hMP5QeKi here it is if you cant to Rome to buy your copy of the 2016 priests calendar!!
If you urgently need a Mussolini calendar just pop along to Amazon.it who have a choice of 2 lovely wall calendars featuring the Duce's eek.

philat98

I am disappointed with the Amazon Duce calendar. I thought the date would have been year XCIV E.F. and not 2016.

sunnysider

Interesting jacha. Look forward to hearing more of your thoughts, inluding how it has maybe changed your views of Italy, when you have finished it.

JACHA

Hi Sunnysider I am halfway through the book. I never understood why Italy has the different regions, and then the communes as it seems to be so inefficient, and to be honest a lot of Italy seems to be ineffiecient and that is not meant to be disrespectful. Issues like reporting where you live, the whole visa process, taxes, only going to a doctor in the area you live seem so strange to me.
I guess what I hope to understand is the history of Italy and why it has never become a good economy. So I am begining to understand by reading the book.
We have been spoilt here in Australia as we have lived in the boom times with good wages, low housing costs, and relatively low unemployment. Sadly these things are not available to the younger generation. And I was wondering why Italians are not in the same position.
I would still live in Italy for 12 months in a heartbeat if I could as I really love the place.
Regards

sunnysider

Yes, masses of comuni in Sardinia - cycling into the smallest places I often find a substantial though somewhat sleepy looking municipio.

On that subject, you may be interested in this:


The writer** clearly loves Italy though some folk disagree with his argument/conclusions. You might, you might not.

all the best

** not, to the best of my knowledge, moonlighting from The Floyd

Book available from places other than the questionable tax refugees - alarmed that a logo appears to have been inserted.

JACHA

Hi Sunnysider I have read the book by David Gilmour but I am enjoying this book much more.It gives more details as to why there was reluctance.

What I have learnt is that perhaps thanks to Capt Cook, Australia has freedom of movement. Of course history suggests that he did some not so good things on discovering Australia. So in future I musn't be too hard on my own country.
Regards

sunnysider

Out of interest jacha, what did you make of Gilmour's central point? Were you convinced?

Whatever anyone makes of his point about italy though, united or divided, i think it clear that he loves the place.

JACHA

Hi sunnysider- While Gilmour appears to love the place I can see why italians were upset about the book.
I prefer this book though as it gives more of a history. The point that interests me is that in both books it appears that the Italians of that time have a terrible reputation. Would you say rather than being lazy about one nation that people were apathetic? Is Italy one country today or is it still regional (as that how it appears to me, but that is an outsiders view).Not sure if corruption is still an issue, as we only get media reports and surprisingly I don't believe everything I read in the media.
In the 50's and 60's when Australia had a lot of migration from Europe the Italians and Polish were considered very hard workers. Australian workers were often compared to the migrants and we were the ones who were being called lazy.
I do find this book taking a long time to read but probaly because I am taking it all in.
Regards

sunnysider

In my experience jacha sards aren't lazy at all, though in the recent past (now not really so possible) a certain attraction to a "balanced life" could be seen as such. Apathy about the nation, yes, judging by my experience of the 150th anniversary, and i think applies to a lot of the rest of the country a fair bit as well. The enthusiasm of some can, unfortunately, be put down to the fact that they are state employees. Surprised that you even ask about corruption to be honest - plenty of data available.

regional? Hell, you should hear the way some sards talk about the next village.

And you, you lazy sod, hurry up and finish that book

JACHA

Sunnysider ha ha. I will be doing a lot of reading tomorrow and Sunday. It will be 36 &37 degrees so it will be sitting inside in the airconditioning for me,wishing I was in Italy somewhere. This time last year we were in beautiful Trento.We were heading to Salzburg hoping for a white Christmas. It started snowing Christmas night. You could pick all the crazy Aussies because we were all standing outside in the snow.

highlander1

[QUOTE=JACHA;11813124]Hi sunnysider- While Gilmour appears to love the place I can see why italians were upset about the book.
I prefer this book though as it gives more of a history. The point that interests me is that in both books it appears that the Italians of that time have a terrible reputation. Would you say rather than being lazy about one nation that people were apathetic? Is Italy one country today or is it still regional (as that how it appears to me, but that is an outsiders view).Not sure if corruption is still an issue, as we only get media reports and surprisingly I don't believe everything I read in the media.


Same level as Swaziland ,it seems.


2014 Corruption Perceptions Index -- Results

8600 Commune's or thereabout, Italians are fiercely connected to only their own place, hence ''campanilismo'' living whiting the shade of their church spire ( campanile )

JACHA

Highlander I thought you had made a mistake with the 8600 commune's so had to read it twice. What percentage of them are viable?
As far as I can tell from reading this book in the early 1900's the bank's were in trouble, Parliament was a mess, corruption was big and people were "connected to their own place". Over 100 years and nothing much has changed for Italy. Although I disagree with the continued comments throughout the book that Italians are lazy. That is not the reputation they had in Australia in throughout the 1900's.
Funny how all the politicians thought a war was the way to unite the countrry. I am interested to see what happened to Italy during and after the second world war to see if the country did unite. Because it appears as I said earlier nothing much as changed. Looking forward to reading the book about Mussolini

sunnysider

Which book makes continued references to italians being lazy jacha? I don't remember that.