sunnysider

for anyone interested in Italy beyond the paperwork.

Have read many of his books - a real pity there won't be more.

Condolences to family.

Christopher Duggan obituary | Books | The Guardian

philat98

I haven't read any of his books.

Which one would you recommend?

modicasa

Fascist Voices is excellent - it seems a bit dense at the beginning butwhen you get into it its fascinating - and shows that there was very wide support for Mussolini from ordinary Italians. It also shows how a personality cult grows, that perfectly ordinary people had a real 'love' for the Duce.

philat98

In Umbria that real love still exists in places. Small shops sometimes have a photo of the Duce in the company of the Pope and Padre Pio on the back wall. Looking for pictures of the Duce makes shopping more entertaining.

ononno

In Cascia there are souvenir shops openly displaying pictures and memorabalia of Il Duce. Much of the same in San Marino. I know of at least 2 newsagents not far from me where you can actually buy a Fascist calender with the year shown as Roman numerals of 'era fascista'. An old building in a nearby town still has an entire gable end carrying the faded slogan 'meglio un giorno da leoni che cento anni da pecore' :-). Nostalgia dies hard.
A long time since I saw anyone prosecuted for 'apologia del fascismo'.
bye bye dicette l'inglese

sunnysider

I suppose it depends what you are after philat.

For a good general history of Italy I would read Force of Destiny first I think.

Damn odd that the Telegraph here says that it's rather long:


Professor Christopher Duggan, historian - obituary - Telegraph

It's an entire history of a nation state starting many years before its official foundation.

It is true as the Telegraph says that he came across as a "typical" modest Englishman. I was at an event he was at very recently and he did seem somewhat dry and maybe even buttoned up. Not quite what I was expecting after his books.

I would second modicasa's praise of Fascist Voices. Yes it does make clear that there was very widespread support for Il Duce, though Duggan does pepper the text with lots of caveats. One I seem to remember is that some folk may have been writing these letters because they felt they had to, or because they needed a job. Call me a brutal moralist but I think that amounts to the same basic thing - pandering to a dictator and letting your country float downriver.

I do regret not going to an event one damp winter's evening a couple of years ago where he was giving a talk on this book to a Jewish group. He may have been more outspoken in their company and may also of course have been asked some challenging questions.

On doing some more online checking following your reply philat I was shocked to learn that it appears to have been a suicide by hanging. Though I had wondered when I read the first brief report as his death was said to be sudden but there were no more details and he seemed in good health when I saw him at that event recently.

Yes, Fascist voices is excellent - it does basically, despite Duggan's cautions and caveats, make the degree of support for the bare-chested one (clearly Putin is an admirer) clear - and this also chimes with stuff I have seen and heard in contemporary Italy.

I have a fair few examples of my own to add to those from folks in this thread. May add later.

philat98

I will look out for Fascist voices.

I haven't seen one of those calendars ononno. Probably they have them in Terni. They might appeal because nobody would know whether you had the current year as long as the day was correct.

modicasa

they sell the calendars everyhere in Naples, along with the sexy priests calendar.

sunnysider

I have seen them at a few places in sardinia. I wouldn't say they are common but not exactly rare either. Also duce t shirts on the odd stall at a village sagra/fair. Would sir like a a fine cheese, some olive oil, a cow bell, torrone, or perhaps a fetching t shirt of a dictator, destroyer of the nation and its self respect, friend of hitler. No? You prefer joseph stalin?

JACHA

Thanks for this post as I haven't read any of the authour. I am always looking for good reading on Italy's history and hopefully can get them as ebooks.
About the sexy priests calendar. I wanted to bring one back and didn't and when telling my friend whose mother is a devout catholic she was horrified and said "the Pope would not allow that". It made me laugh. Some of the priests were very good looking. And before anyone accuses me of anything bad I do notice good looking men especially the one I'm married to.

sunnysider

No probs jacha, you are welcome.

Nothing wrong with clocking attractive men at all, though can't help noting, at the risk of sending my own initiated thread way off line, that italian buried attraction to men and women of the cloth is a vast subject in itself. Now that is worth a book or two.

nicktonight

Excellent pizzeria outside Palermo "Nu Parrinaru" - "Parrinaru" is apparently a derogatory Sicilian word for someone with an attraction to men and women of the cloth - I was surprised to see they had a special term for this

Sad to hear about Christopher Duggan's death. Most of the Sicilians I meet rarely mention the fascist period at all and I only ever hear negative criticism of Mussolini - just last night how he banned the use of the "lei" in favour of "voi". I suppose that is because there is so much to say about the recent history.

sunnysider

Thanks for that nick - good to see that there is a single word for it - shows that it is a real cultural phenomenon and not just the product of a warped insight from me. I couldn't find the word in a dictionary, i assume because it isn't standard italian. Is it masculine, feminine, variable maybe depending on the afflicted? What is/are the plural/s. Calling jonwel maybe.

nicktonight

Hi Sunnysider - quick consultation with GF - Parrinaru is an adjective derived from parrinu (sicilian for priest or godfather). The italian translation of parrinaru is baciapila (pila being the recipient of sacred water at the church entrance door) so definitely a cultural phenomenon!

sunnysider

Just seen that you have added a para so will reply to this. I fear nick that there may be other reasons. Mussolini lost didn't he? You must surely have noted a certain italian talent for rewriting? In my pedals around sardinia i have seen a lot of remodelled and rewritten memorials. Leonardo sciascia, who i was introduced to by an italian on here, would also have a somewhat jaundiced view of this issue i think. I also saw an italian film based on an old sicilian's diary ( i think i posted a reference to it on here) which had a somewhat dry take on this issue. Or rather the sicilian did.
In sardinia i well remember someone telling me that an old relative was always against Mussolini. From the age of about 5 i seem to remember. methinks they did protest too much.
May reply to the lovers of the cloth side issue later. All the best.