Cherry B

Oh great dilemma of dilemmas:
After a large huge enormous personal battle (maybe some of you remember, if not just see my homesickness threads if u want to depress yourself), I am still here, serene, happy and dandy and have finally accepted that I just am going to love (and hate) the UK and Italy, in equal measures .

The OH and I also started talking about sprogs!, and yes, came to the conclusion that this would be a fun road to take if we are lucky enough

JUST at the same time (I am not joking, the same week), my boss asked me if I wanted to take on a huge director role with yes, lots more responsibility, as for him I am obviously 'not the type for kids'.
This is extremely exciting and flattering and I would love to try the promotion but, what about sprogs?

I am in a dilemma, i don't want to accept the new role just to arrive after a while and say, ok, now I'm off to procreate. But at the same time, I LOVE the idea of a minnie me... (and just for the record, i'm not getting any younger).

Anyone got any advice? x

What I mean is, can one juggle both really here in Italy!?

Isakat

It is difficult to give advice to people re career/children as everyone is different.
I had my first child while working in a very demanding office job.I was to come back to work after 4 mts maternity leave and I could not bring myself to leave a 4 mts old baby in a nursery, so I took 2 months unpaid leave.She went to a private nursery that ate a huge chunk of my salary and was constantly ill.
I had no family in the UK to help me and gave up my job, after which we moved to Italy.
At the moment, I work 2 days a week and find it hard with the housework, shopping, school run and afterschool activities, but that is me, I am a perfectionist and try to do a lot.
However, there are many women here in Italy who successfully juggle careers and children, probably with the help of their families. I was on my own in the UK and here too, so I am afraid I have failed at having both.
I suppose I would accept the job and see what happens. Also sometimes children come later than expected and having family help here can be very helpful.Good luck in whatever you decide to do.

gelato

Did you boss actually say that about you not being 'not the type for kids' and that's why he is promoting you? If so, what a sexist a---.

I juggle a full time job with a kid (2 years old) and so does my husband. We are both foreign and neither of us has family anywhere near us. I've never seen full time work as incompatible with childrearing as my own mum always worked more that full time (as did my dad) and we came out fine. Most of my colleagues also work full time and have kids and they manage just fine. Many of them are not from Rome or do not have family support for various reasons.

If you have a proper contract at work you'll get generous maternity leave. I took 11 months which was my full entitlement (1 month before her birth and 10 months after). It was fantastic - we got plenty of bonding time and breastfeeding went really well. When I went back to work, we hired a babysitter to look after A in the mornings and in the afternoons my husband took her to work (he runs his own business) where she napped in her porta-cot. It was hard for him but he managed. Now A goes to a fantastic public asilo nido (I advise you to try to get potential kid in to the public nido as they're wonderful) and my husband picks her up at 4.30 and I get home at 6 (I work 8.30-5.30) so it works out fine. A lot of my Italian working mum friends put their children into the asilo nido earlier than we did and many of them use private asilo nidos which aren't generally as good or as cheap but provide more flexibility. Of course I'm lucky that my husband has flexible hours because he works for himself. But even without that a lot of my friends manage it with a combo of daycare and babysitters.

I say - go for it and forget what your jerk of a boss might think. I just love the way he implies that women with children can't have responsible jobs. Ugh - such a common attitude here in Italy too. in Italy, they have very strict labour laws and working women are protected. This is the upside of the rigidity of the labour market here.

indiebird

I think it depends on how you feel and how you feel after the baby is born should never be discounted. I don't think you always know until you get to the point where you have to make that decision...and often women don't have any choice but to go back to work afterwards anyway....

37100

Hi Cherry, nice to have you back. Tough one, but I'd go for promotion. If you had to ask us you aren't heart set on a sprog and it might take a while coming if at all. You'd have a big regret if you had neither in the end. And as Gelato said. Work contracts favour women in this case. I wouldn't recommend leaving a young baby at a nursery, but if needs be, there are some good state and private ones out there. You partner needs to know that he will need to help big time. Not just appear at 8.30p.m. expecting a clean house, washing and ironing done, baby ready for bed, the diner on the table and a happy smiling mum. Don't know what his job is, but could he take time off? Grandparents can be a big help, but you'll have to learn to pretend to listen (and agree) with everything they say and then just ignore the advice because it would cause too many arguments with them and hubby, who will be convinced they know best because they raised him and your 'foreign' ways wont work. The plus side of these arrangements is that kids grow up knowing they are loved by a lot of people. And on a final note. Never under estimate a mother's love. You could take one look a sprog and declare that you are never going to leave it, but then again, you could make a run back to the office as quick as poss.

gelato

Keep in mind that if you earn reasonable money a nanny/babysitter can be a great option for a young baby. We were really happy with the babysitters we used from when A was 10 months up until just after she turned 2. Now that she's 2 she's definitely 'ready' for the nursery and loves it. I think it's really good for her.

No need to feel guilty if the SAHM thing isn't for you. It's not the only way of being a mum. And you don't need to be superwoman to have both a career and a baby.

Cherry B

Thanks everyone,

I am scared and excited to take on both adventures to be honest - that is why I felt the need to write

I do really love the idea of having a family, I know that this could be something that may never come, or if we are lucky, could come quickly, but I don't want miss out.

I just needed some moral support on how the bloomin eck I could juggle both, I agree, as you all basically said, I will only know when the situation arrives!
I am ambitious but also very homely so I guess 'bring in on' in the words of james brown, and go full steam ahead on both adventures!

I am sure I will be able to work something out. My OH is very supportive so I am sure he will not be expecting his dinner on the table! better not anyway otherwise 'un bel calcio' nel for him.

My boss actually is a nice bloke, even though his comments were a little politically incorrect! I am quite reserved about my private life at work so I guess that he is only reacting to the image I portray. Even so, I know that work should not be the most important thing in the world, obviously it is important to have a job at the end of the day! I am lucky I guess that I have this opportunity, and again, like you guys say, kids may not come along immediately. I can be patient and see how things go.

will be fun trying both
xx

gelato

Well in bocca a lupo then! We're going through a rather rough 'terrible 2s' phase at the moment but I still consider having a baby to be the best thing I've ever done. There is nothing like it.

Glad to hear your boss is not a sexist a___. And if he's a nice guy he'll also welcome the news that you're having a baby () when the time comes and say a hearty 'auguri!!!" whether you've taken the promotion or not.

Lorna at Vicenza

Take the promotion. Jobs are bloody hard to come by - especially jobs that you are happy in - and promotions in Italy for women are even harder.
In all reality, a baby might not be conceived for months and months and then you can work up to 7 or 8 months of pregnancy if you feel up to doing 8 months. Mathematically speaking that could be anything from 10 months to 2 years or more before you go on maternity leave.
Would you normally give up a year or two of a good job?

Babies and kids change your life - of course they do - but if you don't let them run it and take over it then I believe that things generally have a way of working themselves out.

I (we) wanted my (our) first child and I wasn't doing anything to stop me from getting pregnant but I still remember coming home from the hospital lab with a piece of paper in my hand that said POSITIVE all over it. At the same time as being delighted, once at home I threw myself on the bed and burst into tears and shouted out "this is the end of my life as I know it."

And in a sense it was, but it has given me a different kind of life. It took some juggling and adjusting and some tears and one or two tantrums with OH and I know it's an awful clichè when people say that it passes so quickly but it does .......... looking backwards now that Chloe is 10.

That doesn't mean that I cannot remember how housebound I felt sometimes when she was a newborn and how my times depended on hers in the beginning and I wasn't "free" and I wasn't making business plans and I couldn't just nip out and I wasn't a "business voice" anymore. I was just a procreator that got hassled each time I went out by the old biddies in town because baby wasn't wearing a hat/shoes/scarf/extra blanket - the sun was in her eyes - she was cold - it was raining - it was windy - she had wind - I wasn't eating the right things - I wasn't holding her/feeding her/swaddling/dressing her properly. Honestly - the list goes on and on ................


BUT - if you're a strong woman, and a part of you must be living here, then put on your blinkers and ear plugs and get on with it all your own way. You know best. And once a baby becomes more autonomous it all gets easier.

Go to an antenatal class - not because it might help you loads with the birth but because you might make good friends there that you can carry on with after the baby is born and help each other - same things goes for nursery and scuola materna.

I should add though that the Italians are brilliant about breastfeeding. It is absolutely accepted all over (at least where I am) and nobody ever made me feel like it was something to hide. I was very discreet but I fed my babies on park benches and inside bars in the corner and in friends' houses and it was never a problem or even up for discussion. Babies need feeding and that's that!



I didn't know anybody of my age group when I moved into this village but having Chloe was both a hinderance (think busy bodies) and a help (think nice mummies). Now I have a few numbers in my mobile of mummies that will help out when and if OH is away and I am stuck. They all know by now who I am and that none of my family is here to help and I have made sure that they all know that the favour can be returned and I will pick up or have their kids when they get stuck. It was only when I offered this kind of exchange that I realised not every loving looking extended Italian family is as loving and helpful as they seem. I have more than one full time "mummy contact" who has terrible parents and siblings and even though they have all their family here - they often have less help than me !

You also have an added bonus - your BE friends who have been there and done that. We might not be in a position to help out physically but we are mentally. When I think back to all those Italian old wives tales and I just wanted to speak to somebody in English and say,

"is it me or are they all f****** crazy?" That kind of input would have been priceless.


Goodness - sorry for the long warble.

Patty

Brill post Lorna

BTW Cherry - I have 3 ex students at work and they all left to have babies - they were very career minded women and I was quite surpised to hear they were expecting. Anyway to cut a long story short they are now back off maternity leave and they have all changed - they LOVE their babies and its lovely to see that they have embraced this new side of their life. I think like most have commented - take the job and let the rest just happen

Cherry B

Thanks again everyone, especially Lorna at Vicenza, TOP reply and really helpful advise

I am just going to go with the flow as you all suggest. Really seriously, thanks again.

Now I have been reading up on getting pregnant and it looks like the odds are against me (nearing 40) but hey...
xx

TestaRossa

I had my second at 41 and have a few friends here that had their first after 35!

Stellina

A friend of mine here in Florence, 39, got pregnant first month of trying so pay no attention to statistics

duffer

Most Italian women, in the north at least, are virgins until about 35-40 on average aren't they? So I wouldn't worry about age.

Cherry B

That's just what they tell the 'good italian boys' honey