Finnalex

Just for you Chris, I have googled as you suggested.
Every case I have found came down to sheer stupidity, not veganism.
My children are not fed a raw vegan diet, they are not denied medical treatment or drugs if they need them, they are not fed on only inadequate breastmilk.
In fact I have had my own blood work done to ensure that my vitamin intake is adequate and therefore my breastmilk is nutritionally sound.
Unlike the babies in the cases google provided me, my children are not underweight.
Do let me know if there's anything I've missed. What exactly do you think my kids are missing out on? What elusive nutrient am I not providing for them? I appreciate your concern for the welfare of my children, I'm sure that VERY deep down you mean well, but please think before you accuse a mother of endangering her children, which is basically what you've done here.

Mr Posh

Hello Finnalex and welcome to the forum: People on here are a good bunch and as a forum "we" have a right to our opinion..that is what a forum is...we will never agree on everything;

A friend of mine (english guy her in Italy) goes out with a Vegan (sounds like someone from out of space) I will ask him if he mind me giving you his email he might help:

On Another note: She is vegan but not the children: that must be so hard for a child in Italy: let them decide when they are old enough: Can I ask you how old was you when you decided, 11months?

Finnalex

I'm leaving the forum after this post, I'm not here to have my parental decisions questioned, I didn't ask for it and I don't need it.
But let me ask you. What gave you the right to decide that your children should be given animal products? What gives you the right to christen your child? What gives you the right to teach your child that it is wrong to cheat, steal, lie..? We teach our children the things we believe are right and then they grow up and decide for themselves. We ALL impose our own ethics and morals on our children because they can't decide these things for themselves. Mine just happen to be different from yours.

chris120

My understanding of a vegan diet is vegetables, fruit, nuts, cereals, tubers, rice etc. Could you specify what your's and your children's consist of apart from this. Clearly the death events are extreme but less damage than this can be done. I am far from expert on this and you clearly have many years of research behind you, i have one isolated incident, but what about:-

Quote_ vitamin B12, found only in animal foods; usable vitamins A and D, found in meat, fish, eggs and butter; and necessary minerals like calcium and zinc - unquote

Lorna at Vicenza

Come on guys, please.
Yes, everyone has an opinion and is entitled to it. An amicable discussion is fine, but don't "attack" the OP. She offered up the information about her and her kids being vegan as an asisde about moving to Italy and making friends with other women. I'm sure she didn't offer up that info for people to tell her if she's right or wrong and to have her decisions questioned so vociferously.

Lorna at Vicenza

The OP is not under interrogation here Chris.

Start another thread about the pros and cons of various diets if you wish, but leave off the OP in this one please. It's gone too far off topic now.

Finnalex

calcium: green leafy vegetables, tahini (sesame seed paste), figs, almonds, oranges, fortified non-dairy milks are the main sources, although there are others.

zinc: wholegrains, nuts, pulses, tofu, peas, parsley

vitamin D: during the summer months, this is obtained through sun exposure. During winter a supplement is required, along with fortified breakfast cereals, milks, margarine

vitamin B12: this is the only thing that can no longer be found in a plant based diet so the kids get a supplement. It's also available in most breakfast cereals

vitamin A is available in a range of fruit and vegetables

My kids and I eat a wide range of fruits, vegetables, pasta, rice, cous cous, potatoes, lentils, beans, pulses, soya products, oats, nuts and nut butters, seeds and seed butters, oils.

Finnalex

Thanks Lorna,
I was feeling rather under attack there. Especially as I hadn't asked about whether people agreed with my dietary decisions.
I have happily replied with some nutritional information, not because I feel the need to justify myself, but simply in the hope that I may enlighten people a little and prove that just because a dietary choice doesn't fit into the usually accepted diet, it doesn't mean that it's lacking or weird.

Lorna at Vicenza

Okay everyone .....

Like I said - start another thread about diets and pros and cons of them if you wish, but the vegan talk is now off limits on this one.

If anybody wants to carry on with the original posts about making friends in Italy, that's fine with me.

If this thread carries on the way it is going now - I will close it.

gelato

Back to original topic. I've also found it hard to make Italian women friends here. Many of them, especially once they have kids, seem very firmly ensconsed in their families. At the moment, for example, pretty much all the mums from my daughter's school are at the beach for 2 months or so with their kids and extended families. I work FT and so does my husband and we don't own a beach house (the horror!) so I'm kind of an odd fish.

I've made one good dad friend from my daughter's school. We've organised playdates for our kids who are best friends at school. His wife seems very cool too but she's stuck at home a lot of the time as they have 6 month old twins so it's hard for her to get out. They're sticking around in Rome this summer like us (they both work FT) so they're kind of unusual for Italians.

One good thing about having kids, being married and being older is that you stop attracting the sleazy Italian guys. They're hardly going to bother with a 40 year old pregnant lady with a toddler when there's a fresh crop of naive young foreign women arriving every day. I found that as soon as I got pregnant with kid #1 the sleazy guys disappeared.

chris120

Well I’ll do my bit to bring this thread back on track even if making friends with women is not my specialist subject (well it used to be - back then I found the combination of motorbikes and surfboards worked quite well!). You'll make friends at the school gate, if my wife's experience is anything to go by; she also made many friends by setting up a kid related business. If you send your kids to one of the fee paying international schools you'll easily make friends with the foreigners (i.e. non Italians) you will also find the Italian mums at these schools more cosmopolitan because they will be better off than the average Italian, they may have lived out of Italy or travelled quite a bit. No idea about state schools. I have worked with some of the same Italians for more than 35 years, both in UK as teenagers and here. They are friends, our friendship transcends business rivalry (often we work for competitor companies) we may go out for a beer sometimes but an invitation into their home is quite rare.

Mr Posh

Hang on a minute: I asked a sensible question I never attacked anyone: what people do is their choice: AND I am sure we have a right to agree or disagree

My Friend is going out with a vegan and I asked if Finnalex wanted his email as his girlfriend might help: Whats wrong in that

If in any way I have offended you Finnalex I am sorry...But I have to say what I think as you will....

Lorna at Vicenza

Wot no beach house?
I used to assume many people had their 'own' beach apartments and then I discovered that many of them go back to the same place year after yea after year, renting out the same place. How boring is that? as my 8 year old say. The opposite is 'how cool is that!"

I agree about the sleazy guys - but it was fun sometimes to flirt or to put them down and laugh at them and let them know that they weren't as hot or as good a catch as they thought they were. My sister and I have been very wicked sometimes when she's been here visiting

One thing I've noticed about Italian ladies is that they don't visit each other. Some of the mums in this village might meet at the bar for a quick coffee and a chat after dropping the kids at school but they don't 'do coffee' at each other's houses.

My mum used to have neighbours and friends dropping in all the time. It felt like that to me anyway as it was my job to 'put the kettle on Lorna.'

K in Modena

Lucky you! For some reason, as soon as I got pregnant the sleazy guys appeared! When I was about 5 months pregnant I started getting loads of comments from guys and even got followed down the street for a bit by one of them. I had to hold my belly in an exaggerated manner for him to realise I was pregnant and back off.
Once I was mega-pregnant, the sleazy old guys put in an appearance: "Ma che bella donna!" in a deep, gruff voice. Ugh!

Back to the subject of making friends with women, I have found having a baby to be great, once I'd figured out what there was to do here. Modena is very good at providing facilities, so I joined a parents' discussion group on a Saturday (just me, my OH worked on a Saturday but it did force me to speak to other people!) and we went to a free playgroup which has been absolutely brilliant. I'm in touch with maybe 4 or 5 mums from those groups and regularly bump into other ones in town.

Good luck with your decision!

sunnyjt

Hello! My sense after being here in Italy for 6 months is that I am not down with Italian women. And, if you ask me, they are not even down with each other! It seems like Italian women, outside their families, don't like each other and fight with their 'friends' like crazy. Spins me out. They're so nice to your face, but mean and catty behind your back (well, the ones I know anyway).

I miss having friends so much, but my friends back in Oz consisted of laid back, cool chicks who's share a bottle of wine (or two) over dinner and goss. Now with a bub on the way, I'm scared. One day at a time. Maybe you'll find cooler friends than me. Heck, maybe I'll find new friends too! Or, if you come to Milan, you can be my friend I'll share vegan food with you any day- deeeelicious!