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Re: The Knight
Originally Posted by modicasa
(Post 13198438)
The question is were they mistakes? He was an intelligent man, and knew exactly what he was doing. He knew that the Italian justice system is archaic and as a billionaire he could tease the trials along knowing that in the end they would run out of time. His private life is important, as soon as he became a public figure, it becomes important. He could have stayed a private citizen and nobody would really care, other than his mafia connections and how he built his business empire, how he built Milan 2 and how he broke the law creating Mediaset. As a politician he was charismatic, certainly when placed alongside all the grey idealogues elsewhere. But.. bribing MP's to cross the floor, buying off competition, passing laws ad personam and almost singlehandedly doubling the Italian national debt is not a great legacy. Rather it made what we now see politicians doing as acceptable behaviour. He came across as a smiling buffoon (see Boris) but was pretty ruthless - you only have to see how he managed to get his hands on Arcore Berlusconi’s Pad – italiafile to know that the result was what counted, not the means of obtaining it.
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Re: The Knight
Ok. I didn't intend to start a political debate, especially not an anti-Berlusconian one, they've become boring,honestly, and this is not appropriate right now.
I just wanted to pay tribute on my behalf, that's all. Perhaps I should have posted in the Obit thread.I know my second post would obviously spark off many comments but it was just a reply to "What for?". I got the feeling that this question was referring to his politics, perhaps I was mistaken. Apologies, then. |
Re: The Knight
Italy: Berlusconi – mad man or useful tool in the hands of the bosses? | Italy | Europe
I like the way people tslk about "mistakes" to describe a well-thought-out series of crimes. Can we imagine Hitler clapping his hand to his forehead and saying, "Dammit! I must remember to stop massacring Jews!" A genuine mistake is the result of miscalculation based on incomplete knowledge of a situation, etc., leading to unexpected results. The only "mistake" that these people make is to get caught. And then we see Libero saying that the "communists" are on the attack even when the great man is dead - that's not cricket! To me a "communist" is someone who favours a different organisation of society, which you may or may not agree with, while the moron journalists who write for right-wing rags say "communist" to mean anyone who disagrees with Berlusconi. |
Re: The Knight
He's just another Italian, but let's respect those who are mourning his death.
And you can thank him either for his contributions to Italy or for wrecking up this country. Not that I personally care - I live here but it's not my country. |
Re: The Knight
A solitary woman not mourning for Berlusconi.
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Re: The Knight
Originally Posted by daniel_t
(Post 13198545)
He's just another Italian, but let's respect those who are mourning his death..
I understood what "The Knight" referred to. My question was 'Why did Rose68 choose it as a title for this thread from all the other possible titles that she might have chosen?"... She's answered that in a way. I feel that if she, or anyone else wants to "Thank Silvio" because he created jobs or because he was a skillful communicator...well that's their choice in a way... but if you do that then you are missing the point... ​​​​​He is not being granted a state funeral because of his qualities as a communicator or as a businessman... plenty of people are good communicators or create successful businesses...none of them get a state funeral. He's getting a state funeral because of his political career... therefore it's perfectly reasonable to question whether or not his contribution to politics actually merits a state funeral, and his supporters ought to try and defend that record (if they believe in it), not try to argue that it's in some way offensive to his memory |
Re: The Knight
Originally Posted by C.2s
(Post 13198558)
If you mean his family and friends well that's one thing. But if you mean his supporters that's another.
I understood what "The Knight" referred to. My question was 'Why did Rose68 choose it as a title for this thread from all the other possible titles that she might have chosen?"... She's answered that in a way. I feel that if she, or anyone else wants to "Thank Silvio" because he created jobs or because he was a skillful communicator...well that's their choice in a way... but if you do that then you are missing the point... ​​​​​He is not being granted a state funeral because of his qualities as a communicator or as a businessman... plenty of people are good communicators or create successful businesses...none of them get a state funeral. He's getting a state funeral because of his political career... therefore it's perfectly reasonable to question whether or not his contribution to politics actually merits a state funeral, and his supporters ought to try and defend that record (if they believe in it), not try to argue that it's in some way offensive to his memory |
Re: The Knight
Originally Posted by C.2s
(Post 13198558)
If you mean his family and friends well that's one thing. But if you mean his supporters that's another.
I understood what "The Knight" referred to. My question was 'Why did Rose68 choose it as a title for this thread from all the other possible titles that she might have chosen?"... She's answered that in a way. I feel that if she, or anyone else wants to "Thank Silvio" because he created jobs or because he was a skillful communicator...well that's their choice in a way... but if you do that then you are missing the point... ​​​​​He is not being granted a state funeral because of his qualities as a communicator or as a businessman... plenty of people are good communicators or create successful businesses...none of them get a state funeral. He's getting a state funeral because of his political career... therefore it's perfectly reasonable to question whether or not his contribution to politics actually merits a state funeral, and his supporters ought to try and defend that record (if they believe in it), not try to argue that it's in some way offensive to his memory Well said C2s about his state funeral. This wouldn't have happened in the UK, but the Italians are free to do as they please in their own country. |
Re: The Knight
But Canclini disagrees. “I don’t see him as a manipulator, but as an extremely educated person. There will never be anyone like him – he was a genius,†she said.
(The Guardian, 14 June 2023) Wow some Italians really have low standards of what 'extremely educated' means. Stupidity has just gained another level. |
Re: The Knight
The archbish of Milan said only that he was a man who liked life, who wanted to live, love and enjoy himself. (but in alot more words). What worries me is that we might end up looking back on 'dear old Silvio' as Meloni consolidates her grip. She doesnt care about being loved, I suspect she'd rather be feared. She said that she'd make Berlusconi proud, on the same day as she got rid of the offence of abuse of power and started the process of limiting phone interceptions. All of which should make us deeply concerned.
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Re: The Knight
Originally Posted by daniel_t
(Post 13198545)
. Not that I personally care - I live here but it's not my country.
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Re: The Knight
Italy's leading supplier of sexual services sent a wreath to Arcore presumably because he was an important customer. It was quickly removed. I checked out their offerings for my smallish town and there are more than 500 adverts.
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Re: The Knight
Berlusconi wasn't 'given' a state funeral. He was entitled to one. Almost ten years before he entered politics a 1986 law afforded a state funeral to former prime ministers (among others). He was Italy's longest serving premier.
Love him or loath him he changed Italy politically and socially. Some will say for worse, but the TV pre canale 5 days was dismal to say the least. |
Re: The Knight
Originally Posted by 37100
(Post 13198716)
Berlusconi wasn't 'given' a state funeral. He was entitled to one. Almost ten years before he entered politics a 1986 law afforded a state funeral to former prime ministers (among others). He was Italy's longest serving premier.
Love him or loath him he changed Italy politically and socially. Some will say for worse, but the TV pre canale 5 days was dismal to say the least. |
Re: The Knight
Il Cavaliere has been blocked by Italian law even when dead. He wanted to be buried in his private mausoleum at Villa San Martino but Italian law does not permit that. Instead he has been cremated today.
https://www.reuters.com/world/europe...la-2023-06-14/ |
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