Declaring presence in Italy
 

Hi folks.

I'll be applying for residency soon as an EU national in Italy, but first I'd like to submit my declaration of presence to the police. I have read that this is better to do as when it comes time to applying for residency, they don't ask for proof of how long I've been in the country and it avoids all that hassle.

Is this correct?

If so, I was just wondering if anyone can share their experience of submitting the declaration of presence with the police? I know there's a form to fill out and submit but I just want to get an idea of what to expect. Do they just check it, file it and that's that, or do they ask any questions etc?

Any info greatly appreciated.

Re: Declaring presence in Italy
 

We never declared our presence but we did buy a house so I guess we were on someone's radar. When we applied for residency we had a visit from the police who didn't even come into the house to look for proof that we actually lived here. You may need translated paperwork (BC etc), address and proof of funds so that you don't become a burden (on an already overburdened state). Mostly you need patience.

Re: Declaring presence in Italy
 

Thanks for the info.

I do intend to have everything in place, i.e.:

- Passport with copy
- Proof of income with copy (self-assessment return in the UK)
- Health insurance

The only thing is I do have an apartment in Italy and have had it for quite some time (over a year), but I've only been visiting every so often (a week or two at a time) and still spend the vast majority of my time in the UK (80%).

That will all change now though as I go there to live permanently - I hope.

Are they likely to check this? If so, I'm just wondering if declaring my presence before applying for residency will avoid any queries into how long I've been in the country.

Re: Declaring presence in Italy
 

How can they check how much time you spend in Italy? The rule is that if you spend more than 183-or 186 days in Italy you must apply for residency so unless you have kept all your journey tickets who is to say? I think you worry too much. Remember that most comune's will want (and by law should require) translated BC's, if you get this done before moving it may save some time and angst.
Once you own a property in Italy you have 18 months within which to apply for residency to avoid heavy taxation. I've forgotten the figures but somebody should come along with far better wisdom than I to let you know the fine details.

Re: Declaring presence in Italy
 

That was my thought too, but my concern was that the onus would be on me to prove it somehow! Guilty until proven innocent, and all that.

It does say on the Italian police website that without a declaration, you will have been deemed to be in Italy for more than 3 months unless proven otherwise. I suppose it depends on how strictly they enforce it.

So when you applied for residency without a prior declaration of presence, it was all pretty straightforward without any questions?

And by "BC" do you mean a translated birth certificate? That's one thing I haven't thought of yet. I assumed the passport would be sufficient - at least for applying as an EU citizen.

And fortunately I just rent the property from a landlord, so hopefully there are no issues there.

Truth be told I do worry considerably about all this so I really appreciate all advice to put my mind at ease.

Re: Declaring presence in Italy
 

You will need a copy of your registered contract - and make sure your landlord knows and is ok with you asking for residence if you have anything other than a 4x4 libero contract.
You will also need to show that you have more than 6500 euros in the bank . any bank.
Plus passport, bc, codice fiscale and lots of photocopies of same. They may also ask you for a 'stato di famiglia' which can be a self declaration for most comunes.

Re: Declaring presence in Italy
 

I have a 4 year typical rent agreement. To be honest I'm looking at the contract now and it seems to mention nothing about my residency status. It looks like a contract any typical Italian citizen would get when renting an apartment long-term.

When it comes to financial proof, would it be better to provide proof of current income (like a UK self-assessment) or just evidence of the cash I have available?

Also, how about health insurance? It's mentioned on the Italian government websites but I'm not sure if it's a requirement.

Re: Declaring presence in Italy
 

Don't tie yourself up in knots about this.
As an EU citizen you can stay here for up to three months and not declare anything to anyone.
There is no need to do any kind of declaration at the police station. Their website is probably talking about non EU citizens anyway, people that need a permesso di soggiorno to be able to stay and live here. You don't need one.
You could have been here 100 times and the comune/town hall won't care. It doesn't matter to them if those 100 visits total 230 days or 530 days.
They don't care because your official residency does not happen until you have filled out an application at the comune, given the documents they want and they have approved it. You are not a resident and you don't have residency until they have signed you on at the comune and you are officially registered in their official log books. How long you have been here before doesn't matter at all.

Just go to the comune to the "ufficio anagrafe" and state that you'd like to become resident. Take you passport - rental contract - bank statements - proof of a private health insurance policy and your translated birth certificate. They may not even ask for all of this. Nobody asked for my birth certificate or a rental contract, they asked where I was living and sent out the police to check up. They do that to everyone. The proof of funds and health insurance is what they are more concerned with.

If you tell us where your flat is I'm sure one of us can look up your comune website and see what it says. A lot of them have a page for foreigners these days.

Re: Declaring presence in Italy
 

Thank you so much for this. It really has put my mind at ease. It's easy to get paranoid about all this "immigration" stuff without knowing too much about it.

I've ordered a copy of my birth certificate, so I'll get that sorted.

For proof of funds, would you say it's better to just provide a proof of how much I have instead of any proof of income? If they aren't bothered either way I think the proof of cash will be better (I can have a bank statement stating I earn well more than the 6k euro minimum, or thereabout figure).

As for health insurance, could anyone point me in the direction of where I could arrange this? Perhaps a comparison site?

Re: Declaring presence in Italy
 

Most people seem to have just handed over bank statements.
It's not like anybody comes out from the comune offices every year to check up on you and ask if you have another €6.000 to keep living here.
Any move you make afterwards is up to you to inform them. As far as I know, you stay on their books just exactly as they registered you forever unless you move house, move towns or die. You could win the lottery or lose your job, but you'll still be registered on their books.

Go back a few pages to look for tips on health insurance. There have been different threads on this subject and one of them is quite recent. Sorry I don't have time to do this myself.

Re: Declaring presence in Italy
 

I'll do that then. I'd much prefer that.

I've went through the pages as well and found that thread you mentioned. I'll keep looking around too for a good quote.

Thanks very much for your advice.

Re: Declaring presence in Italy
 

Oh, one quick question.

Do I have to get my birth certificate translated by anyone in particular (i.e. a certified person)? Could my Italian girlfriend just do it and then I'll provide the translated copy along with the original?

Re: Declaring presence in Italy
 

As nicely as possible, I would ask the comune you are heading for exactly what they would require in terms of documentation for residency. We were asked for certs translated, income evidence (P60 provided, but no translation requested, still provided one ;)) and no health insurance mentioned whatsoever.

Re: Declaring presence in Italy
 

You dont need a 'properì translation of your docs just a simple one will do.

Re: Declaring presence in Italy
 

Thanks for the information folks!

Quick question. If I show that I have enough money to be self sufficient (6500) euros, does that entitle me to the full 5 year residency certificate, or just however many years the money will last?

The reason I ask is that a comune near mine states I need self-certification of "6500 euros per year". I'm worried as since it says per year they'll want to see a total which equates to 6500 euros for each of the five years.

Or is this not the case?

Re: Declaring presence in Italy
 

Your residence will be valid for 1 year, then it will need to renewed probably

Re: Declaring presence in Italy
 

Can I apply for full 5 year residency? Or would I need to prove employment/self-employment for that?

Re: Declaring presence in Italy
 

Sorry to be a pest on here but does anyone have any experience of receiving a full 5 year residency certificate even if they just show a bank statement with the 6500 euros in?

I will sort all of the employment side of things out etc later this year but I'd need a 5 year certificate ideally because due to Brexit I wouldn't want to take the risk of not being able to renew a shorter residency or running into any problems.

Re: Declaring presence in Italy
 

perhaps I misled you. You apply for residency full stop. not for one year nor for 5 years. You get permanent residency after 5 years (at the moment - post article 50 nobody knows). in practise you need to renew your health insurance and (in some communes) show your financial situation every year, so it is in essence renewed - even though you remain resident.

Re: Declaring presence in Italy
 

Ahh I see. That doesn't sound too bad then.

I assumed that they would give you a certificate of residency for 5 years, and then if you stay for 5 years or more, you can then apply for permanent residency. Is that not right?

Usually I wouldn't fret so much about all of this but with Brexit approaching I need to be extra careful.

Re: Declaring presence in Italy
 

Jesus Bloody Christ. God help me for swearing but FFS. Why would you need to be extra careful and you're not even here yet? What about us (Brexits) that have homes and kids and land and property here?

Isn't it clear enough yet? You go and ask for residence. They ask you for papers including health insurance and proof of income. You get residency. That only means that you have an official register on the log books. Nobody gives you a nice, big certificate. Nobody gives you any kind of permit. Nobody asks you to a nice residency ceremony with the town mayor. Residency is a great big thing, and some town halls make it harder than others. but the end result is just a name and address in a log book.

Re: Declaring presence in Italy
 

and the five year thing after five years is true (so far). You haven't even got to stage one yet.

Re: Declaring presence in Italy
 

I need to be extra careful because of this:

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017...w-eu-migrants/

If correct, and if reciprocated by other EU members, I have about two weeks.

And if I run into any issues, it means I'll have to leave the woman I really want to marry someday, so I apologise if I'm being a bit annoying with my questions.

Re: Declaring presence in Italy
 

Oh come on. Get moving and don't be a fool. That article is all about people moving INTO the UK and not out of it. That two weeks is not real.

You're not annoying. You're worried and unsure and upset ............. but too much in advance. Just get here and be like the rest of us and then we will all see what Brexshit brings.

Re: Declaring presence in Italy
 

Why extra careful? To be honest, so what? What exactly will it change for you? Just because you're not going to be an EU citizen at some vague point in the future, do you think Italy is going to kick you out? There are other nationalities that aren't EU citizens that live in Italy you know ;)

Until all the negotiations have been completed anything may or may not be agreed. At worst, I imagine things will be the same as for non-EU citizens living here, which, from what I gather, is a little more paperwork, less free stuff, and longer timescales.

If TM does what the article seems to be implying, then you may have to jump through a few more hoops. And, I can promise you, you will run into some issues moving here, it's never completely hassle-free :)

Re: Declaring presence in Italy
 

Come on give the young lad a break, perhaps we no longer remember this being young biz.. :rofl:
From what this UK Gov link says, you should get a certificate of sorts, we did. This EU link gives information what should (just now) after 5 years. However, as has been said, no one knows what will happen in 2 weeks hence and onwards.
I really should try to redeem myself a little now. Those already that have moved here, perhaps with children, settled in a new life I see as the brave and in many way these with the most to worry about. I think, and strongly hope, that all will turn out okay for them.

Re: Declaring presence in Italy
 

Thanks for the replies folks.

To be honest the only thing I'm left unsure on is whether this 6000 euro in the bank (or whatever figure it is) means that I need that much for every year I want to stay otherwise they'll "note" me down for however many years I can support myself for the money I have.

The UK Gov link above indicates that the attestato d’iscrizione anagrafica can vary:

So if I can volunteer to have this set at 1, 2, 4 years or whatever, I presume they can also adjust that however they wish.

So the question is, for 5 years of secure residency, do I need 6500 euros in the bank, or 32,500 euros.

That's really the only thing I'm left concerned over as everything else is in order (I'll be buying my private health insurance tomorrow).

Re: Declaring presence in Italy
 

Modi has said he knows of some comune that ask each year that you have an income of that amount, note it is income they are really interested in. However that is the 1st time I've ever heard of any comune checking up once you have residency. Granted this is only the people we know, covering a dozen or so different comune. You really should find out from your intended comune exactly what they want.

Re: Declaring presence in Italy
 

Idont know where in Italy you're planning to be, but with an italian girlfriend you 're going to have to relax a little. Like you, most Brits get worried about the paperwork. once you are here and have had a couple of run ins with bureaucracy you learn to be a little more relaxed about it all. In the south AlOT more relaxed.
Dont be worried about the UK situation. Article50 is not activated, and the UK remains a full EU member for at least another 2 years. Thats the law. For Italy to impose reciprocity will take a further 2 years - so you will be a permanent resident by the time it could possibly be a problem. More important for you is a job and your future - dont get in a flap about the red tape - its much more flexible in ITaly than what you're used to.

Re: Declaring presence in Italy
 

You are over thinking things. What the UK Gov says about Italy is one thing, but what Italy actually does is another. Residency doesn't last 1,2, or 5 yrs etc. Residency is permant from day one. After 5 yrs, you just gain the right to stay permanently. The comune might or might issue with a residency certificate, but it doesn't matter because you can obtain one any time. All certificates last 5 years here, including birth and death certificates. It's just the way things are done.

Re: Declaring presence in Italy
 

Residency is just residency. It's not something to barter. You don't adjust it to suit you and the comune can't adjust it either. There aren't any little boxes to tick on the application form:
tick A if you intend to stay here for 1 to 5 years.
tick B if you intend to stay here for 5 to 10 years.
tick C if you intend to stay here for a period longer than 10 years.

It doesn't work like that. You don't pay them any money. You just have to show them at the time of application that you can support yourself and won't end up begging at Milan train station or outside supermarkets.
Can you imagine paying them over 30.000 euro for a 5 year residency and then deciding that you hate the place after 6 months? You'd never get your money back.

As far as I know, nobody has ever been checked up on year after year. Once you are registered in the log books, it is up to you to notify them of any changes like moving house, changing towns, leaving the country or dying.

Relax.

Re: Declaring presence in Italy
 

Maybe this is my problem. I see all these UK-related horror stories (and the recent goings on in the US) and assume that's just the way it is, like countries are eager to look for even the slightest slip-up to give them a reason to make your life hard.

Maybe I read too much news.

Re: Declaring presence in Italy
 

Okay perfect. That's the only thing I was worried about really, i.e. whether they can adjust the initial period of "validity" based on how long it appears I can support myself for with what I have in the bank.

I'll relax a bit. Like pretty much anything to do with Italy, there are various bits of information all over the place which all say slightly different things, so it's easy to start flapping.

I'll arrange everything else I need to sort out and let you all know how it goes.

Re: Declaring presence in Italy
 

What's the worst that can happen? You go to the comune and some idiot there tells you that you need an extra bit of paper something. So you get it and go back again. Don't forget that you are allowed to be here for three months without doing anything at all.

Italians love paperwork and stamps and signatures, but it's not to make your life harder. It's to make theirs easier because they can't be bothered to process your info that day or want a lazy day in the office or don't know what to do with you. Sometimes they are right, sometimes we think they make it up as they go along.

I was once told in the Post Office that I absolutely could not send something in a cardboard tube because a tube just would not go through their systems. Telling the postal worker that it had been posted to me in the first place and must have already gone through their systems didn't make a difference. Apparently it could come in, but not go out.

A British friend of mine was once randomly stopped by the carabinieri and asked how could he be English when his driving license had UK on it which means Ukraine. Of course he told them it meant United Kingdom but the carabiniere was convinced it meant Ukraine because we are all GB and not UK.

Re: Declaring presence in Italy
 

I have had to have documents translated, from English into French and Italian, over the last few years. I used a company called-Intonation.co.uk. They are official translators and very reasonably priced. You can send them scanned documents to translate. They provide a stamped declaration by email with an original mailed to your home. I also have international insurance I think most UK insurance providers have an international arm (BUPA<AXA PPP etc). search expat medical insurance for the full range of offers. Having dealt with Italian bureaucracy for many years-dont fret too much. The police do check where you live but they're no really bothered how long you have lived there. Their world starts only from the day you apply. My impression has always been that they are only interested in whether you can support yourself and have medical insurance so that you are not a financial drain. Other than that relax, pour a glass of wine and enjoy the beautiful country.

Re: Declaring presence in Italy
 

:goodpost::rofl::amen:

Re: Declaring presence in Italy
 

Hi
We were here more than 3 months and no-one knew nor were we asked how long we had been here when applying for residency. When we got residency police came round to check we have a toilet and a kitchen (our comune requirements) but was embarrassed as though I was my husbands young friend rather than wife (only 10 years diff) so made an exit to find his car had broken down in our drive. The comune made us sign a declaration about our finances but no proof was asked. Can be in UK or Italy bank. They advised they can check but this has not been done, and it is yearly, our quoted figure was £8500 each (as not legally married in Italy).

Re: Declaring presence in Italy
 

Thanks for all the advice folks! The Italian way is indeed rather quirky, but that's part of their charm I suppose.

Thanks for the info. Few quick questions if you don't mind!

Is that 8500 pounds or euros? If that's pounds it seems as though it's shot up recently! Unless different comuni have different rates.

When you signed the declaration did you have to provide a bank statement, or did you just say what you had and they accepted it with a signature?

Did they mention anything about the number of years of "validity" they'd give you based on what you had available, or did you just say that you have over 42k+ and that was that?

Strange that they checked for a toilet and kitchen mind!

Re: Declaring presence in Italy
 

Sorry euros - if married (marriage recognised by Italian law) then 11,500 euros between both. We just signed declaration, no bank statement asked for even though we had them to hand. Comune just advised they would or may check even with a British bank. This is every year for 5 years. You can show you have over 42,000 but only interested in the 8500 which is what we have in an Italian bank and one in UK bank. We are unsure if it needs to stay permanently in the banks as have been using our italian funds for bills. Police spoke english and said they did not want to see round the house only needed to confirm if we had a kitchen and toilet - possibly so they can state it is not a 'squat'. Although we are renovating and only using a 2 ring burner to cook.

Re: Declaring presence in Italy
 

Thanks for the info!

So when they gave you residency, did they mention any sort of period, such as 5 years or whatever else? And by "every year for 5 years" do you mean that they'll supposedly check, or that you have to visit the comune and keep proving sufficient resources every year?

Not long until I do it myself so it's good to know as much as I can.