Turban Explorer

Hi

Seduced by the incredibly cheap property of many areas of Italy we are looking at the idea of buying a fixer up property (my partner is a builder) possibly in Sicily…. It’s a very fledgling concept and there is much to grapple with , especially the Schengen visa issues. I have some questions ….
I believe we can be there 3 months in 6 months so living there is rather intermittent ( We have U.K., Australian and NZ passports). Is this workable? Has anyone established a two home regime to deal with this ?

Pitfalls on Sicily ?

I imagine there are British/ Italian lawyers abundant who can assist in the purchase process ? Planning permissions … etc

Geordieborn

Sounds very exciting, so don’t be totally put off….

Houses are cheap for a reason, but sometimes finding the reason(s) might be a bit harder e.g. landslide prone, earthquake, no water etc…

Doing work yourself is not like it is in the UK i.e. lawfully there is little you can do. Planning is tight and costly e.g. moving a window a cm or two needs permission.

We left partly due to Brexit and are/have looked at going back. 90 out of 180 days is a pain, so we would look at elective residency, but it would cost/be hassle. There are even calculators out there on the web for the 90/180 as it’s so ridged. We have friends still with property there who also have property in the UK, and friends that live in Italy all the time. Mostly those with property here in the UK have stayed here during covid, so working the 90/180 has not really been tried and tested.

Lawyers for property buying are a UK thing, but many we’ve known buying have looked to get the “British speaking solicitor” as a comfort thing. We did, but really it was a bit of a waste. Saying that you do need know what you are doing. So being here is a good start.

modicasa

Yes, you will have to get used to the 90/180 rule, even having loads of passports. As far as fixer upper goes - bear in mind that for any structural work whatsoever you will need a builder who has a DURC (a tax certificate) and permissions from the comune. Tiling, painting etc is fine, but you can end up in big trouble and with an unsellable property if you ignore the requirements.
Sicily has some great spots - ignore the houses for 1 euro lark. For the same money you'd invest you can buy somewhere in a place where people actually want to live. Obviously it all depends on your budget, and you're not going to get a bargain in Taormina, Ortigia or Mondello - but stay a bit inland from the coast and there are some brilliant properties around.

Listen Very Carefully

If you can find a good geometra in your area they are worth their weight in gold both from the admin/planning point of view and for finding reliable builders for your project

Turban Explorer

Thanks for your help. Is there any customs issue with driving a van over to Sicily from the U.K. with my possessions and DIY materials. We are thinking now Trapani old town might be a nice place. It’s quite internet based research at the moment given the difficulties in travel etc . Any thoughts would be gratefully received.

modicasa

Yes, there is a customs issue. If they stop you you will have to pay duty.
Trapani old town - no longer the cheapest by a long way. Anywhere on the sea will cost more than inland, and have higher maintenance costs
Drive around, decide where feels like home and then hone in on a place. Otherwise its sticking pins in maps...

Turban Explorer

They would make you pay duty on bringing personal possessions to a holiday home ? Do you know the percentage ?

C.2s

Your questions are good ones.

When does personal possessions change from the sort of things that a person would take on holiday with them to the sort of things that a person would take if they were moving? Clearly holidaymakers don't have to pay tax on personal possessions, but in principle people who are moving do. There's various conversations about this on other threads on this site and elsewhere online. And if you do have to pay, then how much?

I think a vanload sounds like it might well fall into the category where you have to pay. Even if it were only personal possessions.

But I think most people (including people working in customs!) aren't fully up to speed with the post-Brexit rules. I guess that not many people have been moving stuff (even to a holiday home) during the past couple of years, and therefore people aren't yet fully accustomed to the rules now.

Personally I'd start with this and see where it takes you https://www.adm.gov.it/portale/brexit-english-version

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Turban Explorer

Moreover how would they calculate duty on clothes, decades old household possessions ? My heart sinks every time I read the word Brexit on all the freedoms we’ve lost.

What are peoples thoughts on ‘lock and leave’ expenses ? Given we will only be allowed to be there 3 months (gap) 3 months (gap) ….

philat98

Why not just get a 3month AirBnB. There are lots of nice properties available and discounts for 3 month lets. Saves a lot of trouble.

Geordieborn

We often don't think about alternatives like this. You could get a lot of visits for the price of buying a house and having to maintain it. We were even thinking of a 4 year rental whereby we would lose time/rental in effect when back in the UK. But Philat98's suggestion is equally of interest to us as we could try different places. However our advantage in doing so is likely the fact we have lived in Italy before (circa 10 years) and are amazed as to how little the prospect of this daunts us - quite the opposite in fact.

Turban Explorer

I wouldn’t want to waste money paying rent. The idea is to fix up a run down property.

modicasa

Dont think you can fix up and flip a property in Italy. Its regarded as speculation and you will pay heavily for the privilege. Year on year property growth has been about 1% in ITaly for the last 60 years, Since 2008 there has been about a 30% drop in overall prices. Obviously not true for everywhere, but generally the case in Sicily. Now its bottomed out, but will be a long road back up. Any investment in Italy needs to be for at least 5 years, and at the moment Id plump for 10-12 if you want get your money back comfortably. Restoring a house in many parts of Sicily/Italy now costs more than new build.

Turban Explorer

Thank you for the warning. Given the amount of property for sale I was assuming we would have it for life. As we have a history in renovating and interior design and have time on our hands we were hoping the renovation would be enjoyment and would provide a shared long term home for us and holiday home for family and friends. Is it hard to get renovation and DIY materials in Sicily ? We will be going on a reconnaissance mission in April. We are open to flats with only cosmetic attention required, or ruins with planning permission in place. Any gems of areas you can recommend with a budget of gbp 75k of so ?