I am an english bricklayer living in Italy and I am currently working on my own house renovation project.

I recently did some work for a small Italian specialist brickwork firm but was horrified with their lack of health and safety knowledge. We were working on small projects (single houses and commerical projects) and although the guys I worked with were very competent at laying bricks they had obviously had no safety training.

After only a few weeks I could continue no longer, we had to work on a scaffold which is the worst I have ever seen, I worked in Sri Lanka after the tsunami on bamboo scaffolding which was safer!

I know now why my geometra says I am the safest builder he has ever met!!!

I am not moaning about Italy, I love it here! but I do like to work in a safe manner, which in most professionals opinions is more productive anyway.

Does anybody have experience of working in the Construction Industry in Italy? Is this the norm in all locations even on large sites?

Should I continue to work for myself on small projects or are there bigger companies which are up to standard?

thanks, elmo

I haven't been on any building sites but I teach English in a few large factories and the safety standards are unbelieveable. One place has just gotten a new Belgian boss who - horror of horrors - has stopped alcohol being served in the canteen. This is a large chemical plant and they are up in arms. The foreign workers there (French, Belgian) are shocked by the lack of enforcement of personal saftey rules.

And, have you ever seen the men flying the orange flags for road works on the dual carraigeways/motorways!! How unsafe is that?!

Going by the number of deaths at work that are reported in the News (the average in Italy is 3/day, according to Beppe Grillo), I'd be working for myself in the construction industry! Where are you? Always good to know an English speaking builder....

when Italy became part of Europe a new health and safety law at work was passed in Italy.... it pays particular attention to the building trade as that is where most deaths and accidents occured.

It's called legge 626

I remember designated officials from INPS coming and checking out my office andf the whole company - and the boss got told that he had to have big red emergency buttons fitted onto the machines at both hand and foot level......amongst other things. He was annoyed as he had to buy an ergonomic (not sure if that word even exists in English) office chair for me to sit on .....and some other changes. They checked up on him once - noted the changes he still hadn't done - said he'd get a fine if they weren't done for next time and then they never ever came back !

But - like a lot of new laws in Italy - it was all very very gung ho for a couple of months and then it all kind of petered out. Companies who want the European ISO certificate go through serious regulations and rules but unfortunatley many things still slip through the net.

Hi and thanks for your responses, unfortunately I think it will be a long time before safety standards are up to an acceptable level. But I guess it can never be 100% so the bar can always be raised, so we must be positive and hope things will inprove in all sectors of the work place.

To answer Purple Sally, I am based in Abruzzo, however as when I lived in the uk I work in all locations, (even germany for a year or so)

Lorna, I think legge 626 may be the same as the 1992 CDM (construction design managment) laws in the uk. I have been on many health and safety courses in the UK and have a H&S manual the GE700 which is the size of a house! This manual assumes that nobody has any common sense at all, however I feel that too much trainng and regulation, even too much patronising is worth it if one life is saved as a result.

Thanks

Elmo

No one gives a monkeys about construction workers. The bosses´ attitude is do you want a job or dont you? All the big construction companies in the south, and many in the north, are mafia controlled anyway so just try making them conform to saftey rules. The attitude in general seems to be, if one worker dies or has an accident there will always been 20 more lining up to take their place. Most of them are immigrants, often illegal, so they are invisible anyway. The rest are so poor and desperate they will put up with anything to have a job.

I think one of the differences between the uk and here are not so much the laws its more to do with the fact that there are no controls. I've worked in loads of places here in italy or 11 years and i have never seen h&s make a visit. When I was in london we had one every year unannounced. The laws don't prevent loss of life.

in general i find that a lot of people don't care about risks in their everyday lives here, well, especially here in the south (i lived in the north for over 10 years and there is huge difference between the two when it comes to matters like this). i constantly see young children in the passenger seat either on their mother's laps or standing up (with or without an adult there). i've also seen children sat on the driver's lap and literally with their hands on the wheel-DRIVING! No matter if the laws have passed to wear a seat-belt or a helmet (yes, still see families of 4 on a motorino) no-one gets stopped, checked or fined, especially in the smaller towns scattered around since your father vito is a friend of giovanni, the carabinieri that stopped you...!!!

I'm not really stating this in relation to builders, but I for one will be glad to get away from the UK obsession with trying to iron out all risks in life, the culture of blame & compensation and nannying that we have here.

the other day i was watching sky news and they showed images of somebody who had been (i believe) arrested and fined for reckless driving. he had swerved in and out of 8 or so cars. this is the norm here. so if you like dangerous driving, then welcome to italy!

i would strap my child in the back seat, ESPECIALLY in Italy because drivers here are maniacs and have no concern or respect for anyone. this is not nannying, it's common sense.

I agree cornish. It really gets me mad as well. I sometimes think Italians are like naughty children; they try and get out of doing what they have been told to do by the grown up, in this case the state, and if they get caught then they were unlucky this time. Its this great alienation of the state from your everyday reality, and of course this, as cornish says, is much much greater the further south you go. It even feels like they will go all out to disobey, just to make a point. Why oh why doesnt the italian state try to educate people when they bring in new laws, to explain that not wearing a seatbelt is dangerous and so on. When I tell my kids not to do something, i try and explain the reason why. So, why doesnt the state?!

that made me laugh! naughty children-love it! the way people drive and park is chaotic and selfish. but there are reasons and it is reflected by social attitudes; i'm reading a social policy report on italian families and social capital and had to laugh when i read this:

'families in italy have been described in parts of the sociological literature as possessing the type of 'intergenerational closure' characterized by a dense social structure of norms, extensive trust and obligations...however, the compactness of italian families and their strong networks of reciprocity have often been seen in negative rather than positive terms...the italian family is held responsible, among other things, (own emphasis) for the lack of public spirit in italy, and even of the concept of public good-it explains the mafia, the biggest family of them all'

following the study of a village in Basilicata-'the inability of the villagers to act together for their common good, or indeed, for any good transcending the immediate, material interest of the nuclear family...the very strength of family units...when linked to the relative weakness of civil society, especially in the south, and a profound distrust in the state, allowed familism to persist in its modern form'.

i think to see italy at this level you really have to 'live' here for a number of years...

When the governing body of your state for thousands of years has been, for the most part, a foreign invader ranging from the Arabs to the French and, most recently, the Germans and Americans it is no wonder there is distain for authority. In time of war they are known as “the resistance” or “partisans”! This could also explain the “state within a state” such as the Mafia. Gladio/Mafia are similar, both were/are armed groups designed to form the nucleus of resistance against state control. The Mafia was armed in the 1940’s by the allies to aid the invasion of Sicily and Gladio was armed and planned also by the allies to form the nucleus of resistance in the case of a communist take over in the 1960’s and 70’s.
However, what the heck this has to do with bricklaying, I don’t know!

Talking of the mafia, have any of you read roberto savianos book, gomorrah? Am almost at the end, but am reading it in english obviously, as for me to read it in italian would have taken sooo long and soooo much effort I would have ended up missing half of it. Seeing as he has risked his life to bring all of his findings to light and publish them in one big fat book, I reckon anyone who is remotely interested in italy has a duty to read it. Its not just a lot of the same old same old, but its thought provoking and names names, which is why he is in hiding.

...just goes to show how a topic like bricklaying can progress into a huge debate between thought provoking people!!!

lisa, i started reading it sometime ago but got to chapter 3 and stopped. this is mainly because i have loads of reading to do for the course i'm taking at the moment. i will pick it up again at some point and once finished will also see the film. i too (lazily) am reading it in english. apparently a boss in naples has changed the chapter written about him...