Anyone had recent problems with passport stamps? And EES query.
Jul 17th 2023, 3:55 pm
#1
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Joined: Aug 2012
Posts: 51
Anyone had recent problems with passport stamps? And EES query.
Just came back to Italy through Bologna as flight to Venice got cancelled. Been giving in the Brexit carta di soggiorno and declaring permanent residency at passport control for ages now - no problems at any airport. Today at Bologna, went through the same process, gave him the card and passport. He looked at the CdS for ages, then just stamped the passport. I didn't see him about to do it. I didn't expect them to be unaware of this now in 2023. I asked him to cancel the stamp but he had no idea how to do that either. I know it is not supposed to make a difference, but has anyone with a passport stamp had any issues when leaving or entering Italy again?
Also does anyone know how those of us with withdrawal agreement rights will deal with the EES when it comes in? Does it or does it not apply to us?
Thanks!
Also does anyone know how those of us with withdrawal agreement rights will deal with the EES when it comes in? Does it or does it not apply to us?
Thanks!
Jul 17th 2023, 6:22 pm
#2
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Posts: 213
Re: Anyone had recent problems with passport stamps? And EES query.
As I understand it, when EES comes in someone with the Brexit carta di soggiorno is supposed to not use the e-gates but instead show the carta to the border guards. The point being that the e-gates don't recognize anything other than passports and so will do the electronic equivalent of stamping them. The border guards are of course supposed not to!!
Oct 6th 2023, 2:20 pm
#3
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Re: Anyone had recent problems with passport stamps? And EES query.
Had a similar, sort of related issue.
Flight out of Rome to Australia a few weeks ago. The Italian border guard asked where we lived and we said Italy, and he said why have you given me a passport, just give me your ID card. So therefore no exit stamp.
Flights in Australia and to Singapore all with a passport (of course).
This morning flight home from Singapore to Rome via Zurich (all booked as one booking with Swiss Air). The Swiss border guard asked what was the purpose of my visit to Italy, and I said that I live here. He said that he wanted to see my "Permesso di Soggiorno". I showed him my Italian ID card (which is not a Carta di Soggiorno CDS). I explained that I lived here before Brexit and therefore that I don't have a "Permesso di Soggiorno" , and CANNOT get one because it is not available to people who moved here before Brexit seeing as our right to live in Italy is established not by the process of a visa application that must submitted before leaving a country outside of the EU , but instead by the fact we had the right to move here without a visa as part of Britain's membership of the EU , and then continued by the withdrawal agreement. I asked him if he perhaps meant the CDS , which is not obligatory in Italy and that therefore can't be insisted on. He said he wasn't sure. He had been told to insist on a Permesso di Soggiorno because Britain is now outside the EU. I said yes, but... and explained the situation again , and that I could happily show him links to the Italian government website which states all this, but as I only had 40 minutes to catch our connection I'd prefer it if we did this quickly. He insisted he couldn't let me in to Switzerland without a "Permesso di Soggiorno". I said that I only want to travel through Switzerland and my British passport is valid to do that, and I wasn't even leaving the airport. He said yes that is true. I asked what he proposed to do: send me back to Singapore, where I had no right to go; or send me to the UK where I don't live; AND that either of those options seemed to require allowing me to get off the plane and get on another one... and that's the same as allowing me to transit to Italy. And surely it's Italy's decision whether they continue to allow me to reside in Italy, not Switzerland's, and that I didn't care if he stamped my passport or not. Or he could let me into Switzerland without a connection flight, considering that I can enter Switzerland with just a passport, and then I could quite legally get on a train or bus or rent a car and travel to Italy or any other EU country, and I could sort out the passport stamp later. He said "Er...I will ring my boss." The boss said that the border guard was right... but that they would let me through "just this once" without a stamp and that I would need a "Permesso di Soggiorno" in future.
It's going to be fun explaining this to a machine in future! ;-)
Flight out of Rome to Australia a few weeks ago. The Italian border guard asked where we lived and we said Italy, and he said why have you given me a passport, just give me your ID card. So therefore no exit stamp.
Flights in Australia and to Singapore all with a passport (of course).
This morning flight home from Singapore to Rome via Zurich (all booked as one booking with Swiss Air). The Swiss border guard asked what was the purpose of my visit to Italy, and I said that I live here. He said that he wanted to see my "Permesso di Soggiorno". I showed him my Italian ID card (which is not a Carta di Soggiorno CDS). I explained that I lived here before Brexit and therefore that I don't have a "Permesso di Soggiorno" , and CANNOT get one because it is not available to people who moved here before Brexit seeing as our right to live in Italy is established not by the process of a visa application that must submitted before leaving a country outside of the EU , but instead by the fact we had the right to move here without a visa as part of Britain's membership of the EU , and then continued by the withdrawal agreement. I asked him if he perhaps meant the CDS , which is not obligatory in Italy and that therefore can't be insisted on. He said he wasn't sure. He had been told to insist on a Permesso di Soggiorno because Britain is now outside the EU. I said yes, but... and explained the situation again , and that I could happily show him links to the Italian government website which states all this, but as I only had 40 minutes to catch our connection I'd prefer it if we did this quickly. He insisted he couldn't let me in to Switzerland without a "Permesso di Soggiorno". I said that I only want to travel through Switzerland and my British passport is valid to do that, and I wasn't even leaving the airport. He said yes that is true. I asked what he proposed to do: send me back to Singapore, where I had no right to go; or send me to the UK where I don't live; AND that either of those options seemed to require allowing me to get off the plane and get on another one... and that's the same as allowing me to transit to Italy. And surely it's Italy's decision whether they continue to allow me to reside in Italy, not Switzerland's, and that I didn't care if he stamped my passport or not. Or he could let me into Switzerland without a connection flight, considering that I can enter Switzerland with just a passport, and then I could quite legally get on a train or bus or rent a car and travel to Italy or any other EU country, and I could sort out the passport stamp later. He said "Er...I will ring my boss." The boss said that the border guard was right... but that they would let me through "just this once" without a stamp and that I would need a "Permesso di Soggiorno" in future.
It's going to be fun explaining this to a machine in future! ;-)
Oct 6th 2023, 4:09 pm
#4
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Joined: Nov 2011
Location: Central Italy
Posts: 3,666
Re: Anyone had recent problems with passport stamps? And EES query.
Had a similar, sort of related issue.
Flight out of Rome to Australia a few weeks ago. The Italian border guard asked where we lived and we said Italy, and he said why have you given me a passport, just give me your ID card. So therefore no exit stamp.
Flights in Australia and to Singapore all with a passport (of course).
This morning flight home from Singapore to Rome via Zurich (all booked as one booking with Swiss Air). The Swiss border guard asked what was the purpose of my visit to Italy, and I said that I live here. He said that he wanted to see my "Permesso di Soggiorno". I showed him my Italian ID card (which is not a Carta di Soggiorno CDS). I explained that I lived here before Brexit and therefore that I don't have a "Permesso di Soggiorno" , and CANNOT get one because it is not available to people who moved here before Brexit seeing as our right to live in Italy is established not by the process of a visa application that must submitted before leaving a country outside of the EU , but instead by the fact we had the right to move here without a visa as part of Britain's membership of the EU , and then continued by the withdrawal agreement. I asked him if he perhaps meant the CDS , which is not obligatory in Italy and that therefore can't be insisted on. He said he wasn't sure. He had been told to insist on a Permesso di Soggiorno because Britain is now outside the EU. I said yes, but... and explained the situation again , and that I could happily show him links to the Italian government website which states all this, but as I only had 40 minutes to catch our connection I'd prefer it if we did this quickly. He insisted he couldn't let me in to Switzerland without a "Permesso di Soggiorno". I said that I only want to travel through Switzerland and my British passport is valid to do that, and I wasn't even leaving the airport. He said yes that is true. I asked what he proposed to do: send me back to Singapore, where I had no right to go; or send me to the UK where I don't live; AND that either of those options seemed to require allowing me to get off the plane and get on another one... and that's the same as allowing me to transit to Italy. And surely it's Italy's decision whether they continue to allow me to reside in Italy, not Switzerland's, and that I didn't care if he stamped my passport or not. Or he could let me into Switzerland without a connection flight, considering that I can enter Switzerland with just a passport, and then I could quite legally get on a train or bus or rent a car and travel to Italy or any other EU country, and I could sort out the passport stamp later. He said "Er...I will ring my boss." The boss said that the border guard was right... but that they would let me through "just this once" without a stamp and that I would need a "Permesso di Soggiorno" in future.
It's going to be fun explaining this to a machine in future! ;-)
Flight out of Rome to Australia a few weeks ago. The Italian border guard asked where we lived and we said Italy, and he said why have you given me a passport, just give me your ID card. So therefore no exit stamp.
Flights in Australia and to Singapore all with a passport (of course).
This morning flight home from Singapore to Rome via Zurich (all booked as one booking with Swiss Air). The Swiss border guard asked what was the purpose of my visit to Italy, and I said that I live here. He said that he wanted to see my "Permesso di Soggiorno". I showed him my Italian ID card (which is not a Carta di Soggiorno CDS). I explained that I lived here before Brexit and therefore that I don't have a "Permesso di Soggiorno" , and CANNOT get one because it is not available to people who moved here before Brexit seeing as our right to live in Italy is established not by the process of a visa application that must submitted before leaving a country outside of the EU , but instead by the fact we had the right to move here without a visa as part of Britain's membership of the EU , and then continued by the withdrawal agreement. I asked him if he perhaps meant the CDS , which is not obligatory in Italy and that therefore can't be insisted on. He said he wasn't sure. He had been told to insist on a Permesso di Soggiorno because Britain is now outside the EU. I said yes, but... and explained the situation again , and that I could happily show him links to the Italian government website which states all this, but as I only had 40 minutes to catch our connection I'd prefer it if we did this quickly. He insisted he couldn't let me in to Switzerland without a "Permesso di Soggiorno". I said that I only want to travel through Switzerland and my British passport is valid to do that, and I wasn't even leaving the airport. He said yes that is true. I asked what he proposed to do: send me back to Singapore, where I had no right to go; or send me to the UK where I don't live; AND that either of those options seemed to require allowing me to get off the plane and get on another one... and that's the same as allowing me to transit to Italy. And surely it's Italy's decision whether they continue to allow me to reside in Italy, not Switzerland's, and that I didn't care if he stamped my passport or not. Or he could let me into Switzerland without a connection flight, considering that I can enter Switzerland with just a passport, and then I could quite legally get on a train or bus or rent a car and travel to Italy or any other EU country, and I could sort out the passport stamp later. He said "Er...I will ring my boss." The boss said that the border guard was right... but that they would let me through "just this once" without a stamp and that I would need a "Permesso di Soggiorno" in future.
It's going to be fun explaining this to a machine in future! ;-)
Oct 6th 2023, 10:51 pm
#5
Forum Regular
Joined: Aug 2022
Location: Milan area
Posts: 105
Re: Anyone had recent problems with passport stamps? And EES query.
He said "Er...I will ring my boss." The boss said that the border guard was right... but that they would let me through "just this once" without a stamp and that I would need a "Permesso di Soggiorno" in future.
It's going to be fun explaining this to a machine in future! ;-)
It's going to be fun explaining this to a machine in future! ;-)
I flew from Bergamo airport this summer. The staff there kept directing me to the e-gates on my entry and exit - apparently those passport-reading machines can be used by UK nationals. I had to show them my CdS and explained the rules to them multiple times before they stop blocking my way to the correct queue. Might as well just show them my Italian ID card and say 'no passport' next time - this will get them to direct me to the right queue.
Oct 7th 2023, 10:32 am
#6
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Joined: Oct 2019
Posts: 460
Re: Anyone had recent problems with passport stamps? And EES query.
EES functioning info is on https://travel-europe.europa.eu/ees_en .
E-gates use on entry/exit is fine, as they are not EES gates, yet.
Border stamp canceling is pointless, as it involves two strike line across, which anyone can do. So, none can prove it was canceled legit.
E-gates use on entry/exit is fine, as they are not EES gates, yet.
Border stamp canceling is pointless, as it involves two strike line across, which anyone can do. So, none can prove it was canceled legit.
Apr 21st 2024, 3:08 pm
#7
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Joined: Aug 2022
Location: Milan area
Posts: 105
Re: Anyone had recent problems with passport stamps? And EES query.
Just happened at Milan Malpensa airport - so I followed the advice of 'actively' waving my permanent residence card before passport. The border officer stamped my passport anyway.
It doesn't make a difference, I should think. My date of entry (i.e. today) is well after the date of issue of my (permanent) CdS. It just goes to show how inconsistent the system is. I didn't say a word - no point in wasting time at the airport. Dashed for my train instead.
It doesn't make a difference, I should think. My date of entry (i.e. today) is well after the date of issue of my (permanent) CdS. It just goes to show how inconsistent the system is. I didn't say a word - no point in wasting time at the airport. Dashed for my train instead.
