Why do employers offer subclass 457 visas rather than permanent residency?
 

Having seen a number of posts on this forum (and others) since the weekend expo in London it perplexes me why so many employers persist in looking at the subclass 457 visa as a means of sponsoring individuals when there are more attractive visa permanent residency visa outcomes available - ie the Employer Nomination Scheme and the Regional Sponsored Migration Scheme.

Why would an individual uproot him/herself (plus - usually - family) with no certainty of a permanent residency visa at the end of the day?

I appreciate there are tax benefits available to 457 visaholders, but this doesn't seem to be a reason that is being cited.

Comments appreciated from those who attended the expos.

Best regards.

Re: Why do employers offer subclass 457 visas rather than permanent residency?
 

Hi Alan

We did not go to the Expo this weekend, luckily as some would say as it apparently was very badly organised from a lot of post i have seen, but we may have a sponsor, we recieved an E-mail from a company in NSW on friday/early hours sat morn i will give you an except from the e-mail

Thank you for your Resume. I was very interested and feel that you would be suitable in our fire alarm service department.
Automatic fire is one of the larger fire protection companies in Australia

I am wondering what your plans are? When do intend on coming to Australia.
Please advise of any assistance we can be to assist you in making this happen

now as i understand it unless my husband does TRA and passes we have no option but to go on a 457 temp visa, we really as a family would like to go for PR from the start but if husbands does not do or pass the TRA then i thought this was our only option,

we did E-mail the comapny back asking for sponsorship and am awaiting a reply so will let you know in process, we will be calling your offices also for a quote on how much it will cost for gomatilda to process this application if they do agree to sponsor and see if you or one of your colleagues are able to assist with getting a PR rather than a 457,

but just a quick question , what is the difference in timescale on a 457 than PR .

kind regards
michell

Re: Why do employers offer subclass 457 visas rather than permanent residency?
 

Michell,

As I have said before, you are asking questions as to visa strategy. We will be pleased to advise on this in a formal capacity.

Best regards.

Re: Why do employers offer subclass 457 visas rather than permanent residency?
 

Not sure if my answer will be relevant as we didn't attend any expos but wrt your second paragraph - why?

For us, a 457 is just a quick way for the company to get us there. It's an intra-company transfer, and PR is the next step although we need to do our sums before deciding to kick it off.

Of course we are naively expecting it to be straight-forward. :lol:

Re: Why do employers offer subclass 457 visas rather than permanent residency?
 

Hi Alan,

My husband went to the Expo, he was invited under the catagory of 'Driver' which is not on the skilled list. He's a digger (excavator) driver and felt he got positive feedback from the expo for the 457 sponsorship route.

With regards to why? Well for us we have no choice other than this route as he is not on the skilled list. Ideally we would love to go PR straight away. After visiting Australia we personally feel it's a better environment for our kids with it's outdoor lifestyle and less overcrowded than UK which takes forever just to get down the road. :eek:

So for us we would rather gamble and try than live the rest of our life having regrets and wondering of the what if's. If we try and can't get in or have to come back to UK after a number of years, at least we tried! :)

Re: Why do employers offer subclass 457 visas rather than permanent residency?
 

I think Alan is asking why EMPLOYERS are going for 457 when they could go another route which is more permanent - not the individual. Obviously if you're desperate to go you'll go whatever route you can.


Nicky

Re: Why do employers offer subclass 457 visas rather than permanent residency?
 

Hi, we didnt attend the London Expo, but the reason we go for the 457 visa is because Partner works in industrial sales, (sells materials handling equiptment) but he has no degree, just work experience in this sector.
Not having the degree causes us problems because employers cant sponsor us for perm residency straight away. We have to take the chance...

Re: Why do employers offer subclass 457 visas rather than permanent residency?
 

I understood this to be separate questions to:

'Employers'


'The individual' - applicable to myself and my family. (quote ended with a ?)


'Those who attended the expos' - My husband did!

:confused:

Re: Why do employers offer subclass 457 visas rather than permanent residency?
 

I do apologize - I am obviously terribly stupid!! I just thought "Why do employers offer subclass 457 visas rather than permanent residency?" was asking why Employers offered it instead of a more permanent route. Didn't really want to start an argument - just saying :o



Nicky

Re: Why do employers offer subclass 457 visas rather than permanent residency?
 

Main reasons as follows, I would think:

1. Employers who think that permanent migration visas take a very long time to process (or are not possible from Day One etc); or

2. Less than ethical employers who prefer their employees to be on temporary visas;

3. Employers who don't understand the costs/problems inherent in temporary visas; or

4. Employers who don't trust their new employee to remain with them for a reasonable period.

There are of course the legitimate reasons, such as a multinational transferring someone to Australia for a limited time period, but these cases are less problematic because employer usually picks up all the extra costs and pays for relocation both ways.

Re: Why do employers offer subclass 457 visas rather than permanent residency?
 

Have to say its not just small companies bringing people on 457 temp visa.

e.g Government departments like education- teaching, health -nursing. You would think they are so desperate they would do the PR sooner.

GEMS

Re: Why do employers offer subclass 457 visas rather than permanent residency?
 

So the employer is using a 457 to get us there as quickly as possible and we are prepared to be "uprooted" this way because we understand that.

It's a MNC my husband already works for, they've done it before (same starting location too), we trust them, and no - we're not desperate at all.

You may have been partly correct, Nicky, but you sure have a way with words.

Re: Why do employers offer subclass 457 visas rather than permanent residency?
 

Because they can meet their skills shortages faster; the administrative burden is (marginally) lower; the employee is effectively tied to the employer; employers can get employess whose skillset/qualifications are not otherwise listed; they can use the existence of LAFHA to allow the ATO to pick up part of the costs of employment (can offer higher salaries but not pay the full cost).

Lots of good reasons really. I don't think that PR offers any greater degree of 'permanancy' to the employer; only to the employee.

Re: Why do employers offer subclass 457 visas rather than permanent residency?
 

Only marginally so.

More admin post-visa grant, though.

Should not be important to a good employer.



457 visa has its own skill requirements. Not all jobs are acceptable.


It really comes down to a negotiating position. Many people will refuse to work for an employer on a basis that is only marginally better a modern form of indentured service.

Re: Why do employers offer subclass 457 visas rather than permanent residency?
 

You don't think that in a competitive market for skilled people the employer that offers permanent residency might secure an employee over the employer that offers a 457 visa?

I would have thought that offering to facilitate a permanent residency visa would put an employer at a competitive advantage in a tight labour market.

Best regards.

Re: Why do employers offer subclass 457 visas rather than permanent residency?
 

Certainly potential 457 holders should be aware of the risks they enter into on a 457; many of which they may not forsee. There has been comment on here before about risk around family breakup, redundancy and access to benfits/medicare etc so I wont comment on those.

There are siks of being "trapped' on a 457. While changing employer's is possible (I have done so twice - for reasons of career progression I might add); it requires a very understanding current and future employer to avoid the risk of exceeding the 28 day window between visas. Given that, the new employer (or specifically the migration agent they appoint) typically advise another 457 visa.

There is some risk that 457 visa holders may be unable to get PR through any other route other than ENS, whether by losing points due to elapsement of time (getting older) and that typically means finding an employer who will commit to the costs of a 457 and subsequently the costs of ENS.

As an aside, 457 holders may find they are unable to get PR for other reasons. A friend of mine who was settled here for 4+ years could not get PR on applying due to his daughter's Down Syndrome. They appealed all the way to the Minister unsuccessfully and ended up returning to the UK.

Re: Why do employers offer subclass 457 visas rather than permanent residency?
 

Absolutely agree. Clearly there are additonal factors at play. Avoiding the element of international transfers I suspect those "accepting" 457 must have some degree of urgency or lower burden of administration which might make them prefer a 457.

I would never advise the "desperate" to go the 457 route unless they know what they are letting themselves in for.

I would love to see a chart of "degree of desparateness to live in Australia" v "degree of miserableness on/post arrival"; I suspect they may be strongly correlated.

Re: Why do employers offer subclass 457 visas rather than permanent residency?
 

I sense it is often more ignorance on the part of employers than any deliberate skewing of sponsored employees towards a subclass 457 visa.

If you were to enquire of an employer's HR department about the ENS and the RSMS, and the differences between these visas and the 457: they will probably ask what these visas are, or (at best) give an incomplete response.

Best regards.

Re: Why do employers offer subclass 457 visas rather than permanent residency?
 

You may well be right. I have also had (or my employer has had) poor immigration advice. On a change of employer, aside from the agent (who was engaged by the employer) strongly recommending a 457, I was also asked for Police certs; I pointed out to the agent that unless the law had changed this was not necessary and would unnecessarily delay the application by 6 weeks.

In my current PR application the agent (again engaged by employer, and a well known big name) said my son needed HIV test even though he was not old enough to required one

I had another agent (solicitor in a major law firm) who took me down a route that simply was not ever going to be the way for me to receive a visa, costing my then employer a lot of wasted time.

Sometimes I think, particularly with big firms, the agent enagaged by the employer is the one recommending 457. Many employers know nothing about migration other than that which they are advised.

Re: Why do employers offer subclass 457 visas rather than permanent residency?
 

It seems Go Matilda has some work to do then - with employers across Australia!

Best regards.

Re: Why do employers offer subclass 457 visas rather than permanent residency?
 

I should PM you the names of the agents who my emloyers have had poor advice from!

Re: Why do employers offer subclass 457 visas rather than permanent residency?
 

Feel free! :)

Best wishes.

Re: Why do employers offer subclass 457 visas rather than permanent residency?
 

Didn't think an argument was being started, I was just responding to a post. ;)

Desperate - that's me! :rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl:

Re: Why do employers offer subclass 457 visas rather than permanent residency?
 

I have a relative who's in WA on a 457 that doesn't seem to be having too many problems, and having read booklet 5 and all other info I've had my hands on then hopefully the same will apply to us. :) If we can ever get a visa in the first place - :ohmy: oh no, I'm sounding desperate again. :eek:

However, if after arrival and having given it a good go and we felt really miserable, then we'd come back. But at least we'd have tried. :thumbup:

Re: Why do employers offer subclass 457 visas rather than permanent residency?
 

What if you really like Australia, Dawn, and the employer decides to terminate the employment?

Best regards.

Re: Why do employers offer subclass 457 visas rather than permanent residency?
 

PS. Remember that booklet 5 is for ENS and RSMS applications ... not the 457 visa.

Re: Why do employers offer subclass 457 visas rather than permanent residency?
 

Then we cross that bridge when we come to it. :) We really like Australia now and that's why we are trying to do something about it.

Life is an adventure and a gamble. If you never try, you'll never succeed. :thumbsup:

RSMS would apply to us after 2 years if we were still with the same employer and they were to offer us employment for a PR. This is why I read booklet 5, along with lots of other info. It's just that whenever I don't mention this booklet I always seem to get a reply telling me to read it so thought I'd get in there first. :rofl:

If I've missed any other routes I could get in with, please advise. :thumbsup:

Re: Why do employers offer subclass 457 visas rather than permanent residency?
 

That's good! You are determined, and the battler spirit is what many need to get to Australia (and to survive once you are there).

Best regards.

Re: Why do employers offer subclass 457 visas rather than permanent residency?
 

That's me, cheers Alan. :D

Re: Why do employers offer subclass 457 visas rather than permanent residency?
 

You have the right attitude Dawn - best of luck. :thumbup:

Re: Why do employers offer subclass 457 visas rather than permanent residency?
 

Thanks Seasider :D

Re: Why do employers offer subclass 457 visas rather than permanent residency?
 

Ok, I'm going to throw this one in as a bit of devil's advocate. Does anyone feel that employers prefer to use the 457 sponsorship because -----
it gets workers to Aus quicker, into jobs that Australians wont take, in the hope that by the time the migrants find out why the Aussies won't take them the migrants have expended so much effort getting to their "promised land" that they will stay anyway. By the end of the sponsorship period they already have enough potential employees in the next batch to replace those that say "on your bike" and walk away, and so the cycle repeats itself.

(this is a purely personal comment btw, no particular employers in mind)

Re: Why do employers offer subclass 457 visas rather than permanent residency?
 

:ohmy: Gosh Pollyana, didn't think of that possibility, next batch an all, you could be right :eek:

However

still won't stop me trying to get a sponsor :thumbsup: I like a challenge :rofl::rofl::rofl:

Re: Why do employers offer subclass 457 visas rather than permanent residency?
 

You're certainly giving it all a good go Dawn, best of luck to you :)

Re: Why do employers offer subclass 457 visas rather than permanent residency?
 

Thanks Pollyana. ;)

I hope someone else comes along to reply on your post though, I for one will be interested in others opinions on it too. :D

Re: Why do employers offer subclass 457 visas rather than permanent residency?
 

I fall into the desperate category and so will be considering all options including 457. However, having researched the routes I could take I will be pressing any prospective employer willing to sponsor me to support a PR application straight away. Technically you are tied to them for two years (you can walk into another job and sponsor at any time on a 457) and so whilst it may take a few weeks longer to process, they should get more bang for their buck? It is definitely a more attractive option I feel and whilst I might have to settle for living in a regional area for 2 years, at least I know after that time I can please myself whereas on a 457 you might never get out of the loop and end up having to return to the UK. I shudder at the thought.


If an employer wants to employ you enough they will consider the PR option, and in my case I have to work 3 months notice here anyway so extra processing time shouldnt be an issue. Just need to find a job now! :-)

Re: Why do employers offer subclass 457 visas rather than permanent residency?
 

I quite agree with Jayr and Alan.

I came into Australia about 18 months ago on a 457. However - with due respect to my previous employer - the job wasn't what I expected. Until I decided to apply for other jobs, I never 'fully' understood the implication of 457 visas (28 days etc).

Anyway, I was lucky for find another job (in fact was offered 3 jobs within six months!). However, the decision to work for my current employer was borne out of the fact that they were willing to sponsor me for ENS straightwaway - all fees paid!

Having said that, I had a pretty bad experience with my ex-employer. Despite giving a long notice, they decided to terminate my employment while my visa was still been processed. To my surprise, this turned out to be a 'blessing in disguise', as my current employer contacted DIAC and the ENS was fast-tracked and approved within two weeks!

Based on my experience my candid advise is, don't come into Australia on 457 if you have a choice, especially if you have a family, children etc.

Re: Why do employers offer subclass 457 visas rather than permanent residency?
 

I believe employers prefer to sponsor workers on the 457 because it provides a kind of safety net for them. For example:

- The minimum salary is quite low and in many jobs (admin, for example - usually covered by ubiquitous ASCO 3292-11) they will get someone for less than they would have to pay someone from the local labour market.
- They know that the person will be so grateful for being sponsored, they'll work really hard to justify their position.
- The worker really has no bargaining position when it comes to pay reviews or working conditions.
- If there's any problem with the worker they can simply terminate the sponsorship, no questions asked.
- I believe that many 457 holders aren't aware of sponsorship undertakings so sponsors may get away with not having to repatriate employees who wish to return to their home countries

I have serious issues with the 457 visa. It's heavily biased in the sponsor's favour and I would love to see changes made so that the visa holder gets a better deal and more security.

Re: Why do employers offer subclass 457 visas rather than permanent residency?
 

Oh my god, your all managing to scare the sh1t out of me!!!:eek:
We are going for the 457, have got our agent talking to 3 possible employers at the mo.
We where also led to believe.....by our agent, that the 457 is the only route. You have managed to confuse me (which doesn't take much:rofl:) because I'm not sure what the difference is between the 457 and ENS. We would LOVE to be 'PR' as there is me, oh, 3 x kids and 1 x dog!! OH is Glazier with over 20 years exp, but no formal quals, hence why other visa's are not available (or so we thought), so basically I guess what I'm asking is.....can we go out on a different visa with PR????????????

AND does anyone happen to know the winning lottery numbers for tonight:thumbsup:

Thanks very muchly.
Donna.

Re: Why do employers offer subclass 457 visas rather than permanent residency?
 

For my part, I didn't mean to scare anyone, sorry! But if you're planning on going on a 457 then it's important that you're aware of both the pros and the cons.

I would certainly do research before plumping for the 457. If you know for a fact that you wish to stay long term then see if you qualify for PR under one of the General Skilled Migration (GSM) categories.

ENS is the Employer Nomination Scheme. It means you're nominated (not sponsored) by an employer for a particular position but gives PR, unlike the 457. There are three ways you can qualify for ENS so you might want to look at that as an option if there's a company who may be willing to nominate you.

If you haven't already, look at the DIAC website (www.immi.gov.au) and read the relevant DIAC Booklets thoroughly. Perhaps get your options assessed thoroughly too, with the focus on PR.

That said, if you're already going through an agent, maybe he/she has already assessed you and come to the conclusion that you don't qualify for PR at the moment. One of the ways to qualify for ENS is to work for two years in Australia, with 12 months with your sponsoring employer (as well as other criteria), so maybe that's something for you to investigate once you're there.