SHOULD AGENT BE DOING MORE?
Dec 28th 2007, 4:19 pm
#16
Just Joined
Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 3
Re: SHOULD AGENT BE DOING MORE?
To be honest, I never expected my agent to write these for me but to be on hand if I needed help with it. Instead they just sent me out forms and the guide which was downloadable from the immi site. I asked them for assistance and they said everything is in this guide.
I think I'll setup as an emmigration agent. You have to do very little to get by it seems.
I think I'll setup as an emmigration agent. You have to do very little to get by it seems.
Dec 28th 2007, 10:54 pm
#17
UK is Home
Joined: Dec 2005
Location: Home- "Glasgow"
Posts: 1,137
Re: SHOULD AGENT BE DOING MORE?
Just one other thing i would like to mention, we were told that the agent fees covered all the certifying of all documents which would be done by a Solicitor with estimate costs shown to me only to find when we were sent our TRA papers back and all the supporting documents so that we can do the Visa App ourselves that they were all cerified by a JP which is a FREE service as we found when we had to get a local JP to certify all the other documents for the Visa app
Hi All
We have appointed an agent and paid them almost 800 pounds already. We are in middle of getting things prepared for skills assesment. We now have to prepare statements from 2 employers. Our agents have given examples of the things TRA require but the rest is left to us. We thought because we have paid to go through an agent, they would prepare the statements for us. We have sent everthing to explain what OH does to they seem to know about his occupation.
We feel we have paid for a checking service and could have done the work ourselves. (well we are doing the work) We do understand that we have to get all info as it is down to us but do you think agent should be doing more?
We have appointed an agent and paid them almost 800 pounds already. We are in middle of getting things prepared for skills assesment. We now have to prepare statements from 2 employers. Our agents have given examples of the things TRA require but the rest is left to us. We thought because we have paid to go through an agent, they would prepare the statements for us. We have sent everthing to explain what OH does to they seem to know about his occupation.
We feel we have paid for a checking service and could have done the work ourselves. (well we are doing the work) We do understand that we have to get all info as it is down to us but do you think agent should be doing more?
Dec 28th 2007, 11:56 pm
#18
Still alive
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 28,994
Re: SHOULD AGENT BE DOING MORE?
To be honest, I never expected my agent to write these for me but to be on hand if I needed help with it. Instead they just sent me out forms and the guide which was downloadable from the immi site. I asked them for assistance and they said everything is in this guide.
I think I'll setup as an emmigration agent. You have to do very little to get by it seems.
I think I'll setup as an emmigration agent. You have to do very little to get by it seems.
Dec 29th 2007, 4:30 am
#19
BE Enthusiast
Joined: May 2007
Location: Brisbane
Posts: 675
Re: SHOULD AGENT BE DOING MORE?
Our agent has been brill in terms of advice, proof reading, filling forms etc, but no agent will ever do the donkey work for you in terms of skills assesments other than advise you if/when it is up to the correct standard for submitting it, Now armed with the knowledge we could do it all again without their help but without them helping from the start we would not be where we are now for sure. Money well spent definately!..........In my opinion you should have clarified this with them at the outset.
Dec 29th 2007, 10:51 am
#20
Just Joined
Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 3
Re: SHOULD AGENT BE DOING MORE?
I am assuming your JP is Sydney based I will try our JP office on Monday if they are open. Can anybody else advice me on certifying the documents I have spoken to a couple of lawyers and they want to charge a fortune just for a stamp and signature
Regards
marcon
Regards
marcon
Just one other thing i would like to mention, we were told that the agent fees covered all the certifying of all documents which would be done by a Solicitor with estimate costs shown to me only to find when we were sent our TRA papers back and all the supporting documents so that we can do the Visa App ourselves that they were all cerified by a JP which is a FREE service as we found when we had to get a local JP to certify all the other documents for the Visa app
Dec 29th 2007, 11:04 am
#21
Just Joined
Joined: Sep 2007
Posts: 11
Re: SHOULD AGENT BE DOING MORE?
I think I'll setup as an emmigration agent. You have to do very little to get by it seems.[/QUOTE]
I'd probably learn how to spell immigration properly first, you might not get much business!
I'd probably learn how to spell immigration properly first, you might not get much business!
Dec 29th 2007, 7:33 pm
#22
BE Enthusiast
Joined: Jun 2007
Location: Berkshire -> Adelaide
Posts: 863
Re: SHOULD AGENT BE DOING MORE?
i know what you mean but still i do understand the agents side!
it's not that they can provide a temp form and just fill in your employment history - i don't think aspc would be happy
i guess they like to read it in the applicants own words iykwim
our agent was great so far. i agree doing the tra did our head in with all the writing and researching and correcting and phoning around.
but they sent us loads of examples and sent them back twice to change some things and how to write them better.
and with the visa itself we hardly had anything to do. just check and sign .. and hand over the money of course
but they saved us loads of time already with some very useful tips and also saves us the worries that we might miss something or a deadline!
i hope it'll work out for you in the end!
it's not that they can provide a temp form and just fill in your employment history - i don't think aspc would be happy
i guess they like to read it in the applicants own words iykwim
our agent was great so far. i agree doing the tra did our head in with all the writing and researching and correcting and phoning around.
but they sent us loads of examples and sent them back twice to change some things and how to write them better.
and with the visa itself we hardly had anything to do. just check and sign .. and hand over the money of course
but they saved us loads of time already with some very useful tips and also saves us the worries that we might miss something or a deadline!
i hope it'll work out for you in the end!
Dec 30th 2007, 11:23 am
#23
BE Forum Addict
Joined: Jul 2007
Location: Sydney
Posts: 4,404
Re: SHOULD AGENT BE DOING MORE?
I'd probably learn how to spell immigration properly first, you might not get much business!
[/QUOTE]Well my comment was to be taken with a pinch of salt. I understand there are good agents but there are also cowboys. My agent says they specialise in my profession. When I wasnt happy with the service I was getting, I asked to be assigned another person to deal with my application. I was then told that they were all specialists in all proffessions. That was a big clue as to who I was dealing with.
Dec 30th 2007, 3:09 pm
#24
Forum Regular
Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 84
Re: SHOULD AGENT BE DOING MORE?
Hi All
We have appointed an agent and paid them almost 800 pounds already. We are in middle of getting things prepared for skills assesment. We now have to prepare statements from 2 employers. Our agents have given examples of the things TRA require but the rest is left to us. We thought because we have paid to go through an agent, they would prepare the statements for us. We have sent everthing to explain what OH does to they seem to know about his occupation.
We feel we have paid for a checking service and could have done the work ourselves. (well we are doing the work) We do understand that we have to get all info as it is down to us but do you think agent should be doing more?
We have appointed an agent and paid them almost 800 pounds already. We are in middle of getting things prepared for skills assesment. We now have to prepare statements from 2 employers. Our agents have given examples of the things TRA require but the rest is left to us. We thought because we have paid to go through an agent, they would prepare the statements for us. We have sent everthing to explain what OH does to they seem to know about his occupation.
We feel we have paid for a checking service and could have done the work ourselves. (well we are doing the work) We do understand that we have to get all info as it is down to us but do you think agent should be doing more?
We have used a agent thinking that they would be easy to get hold of, easier for us as they filled in the form. We began our migration process months ago and don't seem to have got very far yet, they like to drag their feet a bit. But hopefully they will get us there in the end!!!
Good Luck!!
Dec 30th 2007, 11:32 pm
#25
jonah
Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 241
Re: SHOULD AGENT BE DOING MORE?
[QUOTE=THORPES;5708720]Hi All
We feel we have paid for a checking service and could have done the work ourselves. (well we are doing the work)
In total agreement with OP. Posted on this issue before with some very differing views about what an applicant and agent actually does. Glad to see that someone actually using one agrees. Wonder how many more there are with this view? Personally i agree with your statement and that it is a checking service. An expensive one.
Regardless of using an agent or not or whether they are good/bad the fact is that the donkey work is done by the applicant!
How can i comment on this issue you may ask? Because i was a wannabe, or a hopeful, just like you. So have been there, had loads of 'tech' issues, done it, got the tee shirt and the VISA without an agent - despite being strongly advised on BE that i needed one!
The important thing to note on this issue is that if your application met the minimum requirements of age, skills, language, police check, health etc (you should know this) it will be read by DIMA/DIAC anyway. So if you do it yourself and forget to attach some details then DIMA/DIAC will request it further down the line. You therefore dont need an agent to check everything IMPO. If you had the time, can use a computer and have access to internet then all the requirements can be found either on BE, on the immi website or by contacting OZ immigration direct.
The fact that we all initially visited this forum in the first place suggests that most posts initially want to do it themselves and simply want guidance on how to do it
Yes you will get the posts on here who say that the agent did all the paperwork and form filling for them and they where happy with it/them etc. Maybe these posts had the money to pay for it or couldnt be bothered to do it themselves or maybe they didnt have the confidence to do it themselves? Each to his own.
I would simply ask - How can an agent do it all without first knowing all they need to know about you in the first place? What where you required to send to them?
How do they get all your documentary evidence from schools, working history, marriage, divorce, passport details, birth certs, employment history, employment references, police checks, medical history, visas held, family details, etc etc? Do they automatically know who your family are, children, brothers, sisters, mother, father, grandparents, ages, dates of birth, where they schooled, were they worked, where they lived, which country they have lived in, married, divorced, students, criminal records etc. All the usual stuff that the forms ask for! Doesnt the agent get this information from you after you have spent weeks, if not months, chasing every man and his dog? Then getting it all certified etc etc etc!
ALL of this information has to be found by the applicant. Then all has to be passed to the agent, be it on the agents own forms or on the original application forms. So what does an agent do? DUPLICATES!
It then takes even more time for the agent to sift through it all, before advising you of what? That this is missing or that needs signing!
DIMA/DIAC do this anyway!
I am not saying that the process is straight forward and not without hickups but most issues only take the applicant a little more time to resolve and if they are unsure then they post on here or go to immi website. It p****s me off when i see the usual posts simply suggesting that an agent is required! Then 2 or 3 of them jump in on a post. Yet if i was a mechanic or a plumber advertising his/her services on this forum i would be immediately erased due to advertising!
The usual response to any post viewed as 'getting' at an agent is met with a plethora of 'what if an applicant has issues with a technical issue' or 'what if the applicant has a child issue' or 'what if the applicant has a criminal record issue' etc etc. I am sure i will get those responses!
I would simply say that all issues are advised on by DIMA/DIAC anyway. They will eventualy guide you and give you the advice required and wont charge you for it, other than the application fee. Ask them anything you like and they will give you the answer - and probably more specific than an agent!
A migration agent is like any other paid personal service. The choice to use them is yours - but absolutely not neccessary and as the OP suggests - a waste of his money and time!
The use of an agent in no way speeds up your application either. They do not have priority over self applications and are in no way a guarantee that you will be successful, despite what you read on here. DIMA/DIAC can and will confirm this if you ask them - I did!
And beware of those agents who use a 'no win no visa' service. Cherry pickers who also pick and choose the cases that can be done by the applicants themselves! Easy money and makes their workload very easy to manage and at the detriment of others they have on file, i suspect.
SHOULD AGENT BE DOING MORE? It is what it is.
I also have an opinion on Man Utd and cricket - but each to his own
We feel we have paid for a checking service and could have done the work ourselves. (well we are doing the work)
In total agreement with OP. Posted on this issue before with some very differing views about what an applicant and agent actually does. Glad to see that someone actually using one agrees. Wonder how many more there are with this view? Personally i agree with your statement and that it is a checking service. An expensive one.
Regardless of using an agent or not or whether they are good/bad the fact is that the donkey work is done by the applicant!
How can i comment on this issue you may ask? Because i was a wannabe, or a hopeful, just like you. So have been there, had loads of 'tech' issues, done it, got the tee shirt and the VISA without an agent - despite being strongly advised on BE that i needed one!
The important thing to note on this issue is that if your application met the minimum requirements of age, skills, language, police check, health etc (you should know this) it will be read by DIMA/DIAC anyway. So if you do it yourself and forget to attach some details then DIMA/DIAC will request it further down the line. You therefore dont need an agent to check everything IMPO. If you had the time, can use a computer and have access to internet then all the requirements can be found either on BE, on the immi website or by contacting OZ immigration direct.
The fact that we all initially visited this forum in the first place suggests that most posts initially want to do it themselves and simply want guidance on how to do it
Yes you will get the posts on here who say that the agent did all the paperwork and form filling for them and they where happy with it/them etc. Maybe these posts had the money to pay for it or couldnt be bothered to do it themselves or maybe they didnt have the confidence to do it themselves? Each to his own.
I would simply ask - How can an agent do it all without first knowing all they need to know about you in the first place? What where you required to send to them?
How do they get all your documentary evidence from schools, working history, marriage, divorce, passport details, birth certs, employment history, employment references, police checks, medical history, visas held, family details, etc etc? Do they automatically know who your family are, children, brothers, sisters, mother, father, grandparents, ages, dates of birth, where they schooled, were they worked, where they lived, which country they have lived in, married, divorced, students, criminal records etc. All the usual stuff that the forms ask for! Doesnt the agent get this information from you after you have spent weeks, if not months, chasing every man and his dog? Then getting it all certified etc etc etc!
ALL of this information has to be found by the applicant. Then all has to be passed to the agent, be it on the agents own forms or on the original application forms. So what does an agent do? DUPLICATES!
It then takes even more time for the agent to sift through it all, before advising you of what? That this is missing or that needs signing!
DIMA/DIAC do this anyway!
I am not saying that the process is straight forward and not without hickups but most issues only take the applicant a little more time to resolve and if they are unsure then they post on here or go to immi website. It p****s me off when i see the usual posts simply suggesting that an agent is required! Then 2 or 3 of them jump in on a post. Yet if i was a mechanic or a plumber advertising his/her services on this forum i would be immediately erased due to advertising!
The usual response to any post viewed as 'getting' at an agent is met with a plethora of 'what if an applicant has issues with a technical issue' or 'what if the applicant has a child issue' or 'what if the applicant has a criminal record issue' etc etc. I am sure i will get those responses!
I would simply say that all issues are advised on by DIMA/DIAC anyway. They will eventualy guide you and give you the advice required and wont charge you for it, other than the application fee. Ask them anything you like and they will give you the answer - and probably more specific than an agent!
A migration agent is like any other paid personal service. The choice to use them is yours - but absolutely not neccessary and as the OP suggests - a waste of his money and time!
The use of an agent in no way speeds up your application either. They do not have priority over self applications and are in no way a guarantee that you will be successful, despite what you read on here. DIMA/DIAC can and will confirm this if you ask them - I did!
And beware of those agents who use a 'no win no visa' service. Cherry pickers who also pick and choose the cases that can be done by the applicants themselves! Easy money and makes their workload very easy to manage and at the detriment of others they have on file, i suspect.
SHOULD AGENT BE DOING MORE? It is what it is.
I also have an opinion on Man Utd and cricket - but each to his own
Dec 31st 2007, 10:18 am
#26
Forum Regular
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 65
Re: SHOULD AGENT BE DOING MORE?
Just a quick note to say that an agent can't write employment references and personal statements - only the applicant can know these details.
What an agent can do (and should do) is provide commentary on the adequacy and level of detail within the references/statements. The process should include a dialogue/exchange of comments in an effort to improve the documentation supporting the claims made in the application.
Best wishes for 2008!
What an agent can do (and should do) is provide commentary on the adequacy and level of detail within the references/statements. The process should include a dialogue/exchange of comments in an effort to improve the documentation supporting the claims made in the application.
Best wishes for 2008!
Allan is right.
Moreover, it may seem that they are initially giving you all guides, checklists, instructions etc. (which they would have stated in the first place), but as MARA agents they should also be prearing a legal submission which details exactly how you meet all of the regulations, and submitting this to DIAC also.
As Allan mentioned, an agent cannot actually write references for you, that would not be legal.
I have heard people say - once they have their visa - that it didn't seem that difficult. That's easy to say once someone has told you what to do.
There is a LOT of free information out there (i.e. this website) - yet some people still feel the need to use agents.
I think the agents problem is this - not explaining the behind the scenes work of actually putting your application together. Good agents get the application *PERFECT*, to the letter.
The easy solution to all of this is research.
All applicants are free to research every agent/company, compare servce and cost, and the option of doing it DIY.
Dec 31st 2007, 2:57 pm
#27
Retired
Joined: Apr 2004
Posts: 34,649
Re: SHOULD AGENT BE DOING MORE?
The usual response to any post viewed as 'getting' at an agent is met with a plethora of 'what if an applicant has issues with a technical issue' or 'what if the applicant has a child issue' or 'what if the applicant has a criminal record issue' etc etc. I am sure i will get those responses!
I would simply say that all issues are advised on by DIMA/DIAC anyway. They will eventualy guide you and give you the advice required and wont charge you for it, other than the application fee. Ask them anything you like and they will give you the answer - and probably more specific than an agent!
I would simply say that all issues are advised on by DIMA/DIAC anyway. They will eventualy guide you and give you the advice required and wont charge you for it, other than the application fee. Ask them anything you like and they will give you the answer - and probably more specific than an agent!
You clearly have great faith in DIAC.
Dec 31st 2007, 9:03 pm
#28
BE Enthusiast
Joined: Apr 2003
Location: Melbourne, Australia
Posts: 425
Re: SHOULD AGENT BE DOING MORE?
Happy New Year all
To expand on Jeremy's comments:
How many here have ever been given wrong advice by DIAC, been treated inconsistently, rung the call centre and been given wrong advice, omitted documents because DIAC never said to use them, the list goes on. :curse:
In my line of work talking to agents, I can relate many stories of people who failed relying on DIAC and forums like this for advice, and yes relying on some agents too, usually unregistered ones, but the occasional RMA does turn up who did a case beyond their usual category of work and got it wrong, or just offered plain bad service.
At least with RMAs there is a pathway to complain that has little or no cost to the applicant, whereas a DIAC error may involve going to a Tribunal or Court to fix or force the right decision, and forums as we know carry no responsibility.
There are after all only two things you need to know - WHAT to do and HOW to do it, BUT doing the What and the How well requires some underlying level of experience, research skills, ability to make good judgement and common sense (not that this last one always applies in this industry!)
If you have all of that and your case is known to be straight forward, then going without an agent becomes a matter of convenience and cost, if you want one and can afford the other, why not?
Service workers like migration agents work in much the same way as other service professionals - nobody compels you to use an accountant or a solicitor, business planner or mortgage broker, conveyancer or house painter, but you do it anyway when you perceive the effort/time/cost balance is about right, or the cost of failure is too high.
Horses for courses.
And I do think the worst advice anyone can give on this forum is to boldly state that nobody needs an agent without a) being qualified to do so and b) knowing the individual's full circumstances first.
Then again, "no sweeping statements are true, not even this one."
To expand on Jeremy's comments:
How many here have ever been given wrong advice by DIAC, been treated inconsistently, rung the call centre and been given wrong advice, omitted documents because DIAC never said to use them, the list goes on. :curse:
In my line of work talking to agents, I can relate many stories of people who failed relying on DIAC and forums like this for advice, and yes relying on some agents too, usually unregistered ones, but the occasional RMA does turn up who did a case beyond their usual category of work and got it wrong, or just offered plain bad service.
At least with RMAs there is a pathway to complain that has little or no cost to the applicant, whereas a DIAC error may involve going to a Tribunal or Court to fix or force the right decision, and forums as we know carry no responsibility.
There are after all only two things you need to know - WHAT to do and HOW to do it, BUT doing the What and the How well requires some underlying level of experience, research skills, ability to make good judgement and common sense (not that this last one always applies in this industry!)
If you have all of that and your case is known to be straight forward, then going without an agent becomes a matter of convenience and cost, if you want one and can afford the other, why not?
Service workers like migration agents work in much the same way as other service professionals - nobody compels you to use an accountant or a solicitor, business planner or mortgage broker, conveyancer or house painter, but you do it anyway when you perceive the effort/time/cost balance is about right, or the cost of failure is too high.
Horses for courses.
And I do think the worst advice anyone can give on this forum is to boldly state that nobody needs an agent without a) being qualified to do so and b) knowing the individual's full circumstances first.
Then again, "no sweeping statements are true, not even this one."
Jan 3rd 2008, 8:48 am
#29
Just Joined
Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 9
Re: SHOULD AGENT BE DOING MORE?
Very happy with our agents. Had a copy in writing and email of exactly what they did/didn't do before we paid them. Double checked again by phone as well. Wouldn't just hand over money without knowing what to expect!. They sent our ACS application back a couple of times with hints on what to change. Spent time looking at it and picked up spelling mistakes and wrong information. ACS sent results to wrong place and the agents spent time on phone chasing them up for us. Would have been hard us to do due to time difference. The visa forms were typed up and sent for us and all calls/emails have been answered within 24 hours. Maybe we could have done it on our own, but small overlooked mistakes we had made on forms would more than likely have ended up costing us more money in the long run. Better safe than sorry we surmised.
Would you be happy to let me know which agents you are using - I'm currently on the look out for a good one.
Cheers
Jan 3rd 2008, 5:51 pm
#30
jonah
Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 241
Re: SHOULD AGENT BE DOING MORE?
Dont you?
I had absolutely no problems in dealing directly with them. Nothing was ambiguos and they where very clear about what they required. No false assurances. I had direct contact with a support officer/CO dealing with my application and was encouraged by them. If they wanted additional info they simply sent an email direct to me! I responded straight away, as did they. All additional info was asked for in scanned copy format and queries took minimal time and they where very helpful.
No middle man to hold the process up, all queries answered correctly and at no additional cost!
My application certainly wasnt straight forward and i was advised on here to get an agent.
Didnt use an agent and got my 136 PR skilled visa in less than 6 months.
Why wouldnt i have faith in dealing direct with DIAC/DIMA?
I had absolutely no problems in dealing directly with them. Nothing was ambiguos and they where very clear about what they required. No false assurances. I had direct contact with a support officer/CO dealing with my application and was encouraged by them. If they wanted additional info they simply sent an email direct to me! I responded straight away, as did they. All additional info was asked for in scanned copy format and queries took minimal time and they where very helpful.
No middle man to hold the process up, all queries answered correctly and at no additional cost!
My application certainly wasnt straight forward and i was advised on here to get an agent.
Didnt use an agent and got my 136 PR skilled visa in less than 6 months.
Why wouldnt i have faith in dealing direct with DIAC/DIMA?