Havel

I came to Sydney and started to look for job 9 weeks ago. It is very tough here.
There are many people looking for job and not too many positions.

I have about 5 years SW developing experience (4 years Ada, 3 years C++) and I can
hardly get even an interview. I replied to 65 ads already and got only two interviews
where I competed with at least 8 other people for a single position. It is hard for
Australians and it is much harder for immigrants because:

a) Many jobs are word of mouth, come from networking (it is estimated these are 80%
of the jobs), if you just came and don't anyone you excluded from this hidden
job market

b) You excluded from defence related jobs (and since the defence spending is quite
big at the moment, this is significant portion of jobs) because these positions
require citizenship

c) Agencies or employers sometimes require Australian experience or Australian degree

I think a) and b) fair enough, but what pisses me off the most is c), since I really
don’t know what is so special on IT in Australia apart from fact that it pays
less and has less opportunities.

Because there are so many people looking for job agencies and employers are also
extremely picky. I have 3 years of C++ but only 2 years of Visual C++ and therefore I
can’t apply for job advertising 3 years of Visual C++ (and I’m not
talking about funny advertisements asking repeatedly for 3 years of Windows XP
experience).

If you look on www.jobnet.com.au or www.MyCareer.com.au websites, where the most of
agencies advertise, for the first time, you think great, that’s not so bad,
quite few jobs there! But if you actually start to study the openings and apply for
them, after few weeks you find out that the offer is not so great and many agencies
advertise the same position for months (I can’t believe they can’t fill
the position). I have no idea what’s going on in there.

Sorry about being so negative, but I’m frustrated and that’s just how I
feel at the moment. In any case I’m not giving up yet.

Anyone with a positive experience?

Havel

Thunder Ace

MrFlibbleUK <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:<[email protected]>...
    > Too right col.......aaarr the stuff of dreams!!!...a summer that
    > has..sunshine.....long roads...just you and the bike......mmmmm

Now your talking. I've just arrived at work, sopping wet and lucky to make it even
though it's only twenty miles. Is diesel so cheap that truck drivers like to chuck it
all over the roads?

ChrisA

Hi Jony

I went to Australia over March/April this year. The IT situation is improving rapidly more than it is in the UK

The Australian (Tuesdays IT edition) says that IT vacancies will rise this year. Also they are doing the budget today in Australia and apparently the number of visas is going to be increased by 15,000 to 100,000 targeting skills in demand.

Ive spoken to a friend whos an IT Contractor now over here from Sydney. He says things are picking up rapidly

Im getting e-mail alerts from jobnet.com.au every day about new jobs.

Chris

col

Sounds promising chris,
would like to think I can get a job in IT, but like I said a 'means to an end'



Thunder ace should have guessed from the name you was a biker!!!
Been wiped out twice through diesel. (always in the wet!!!)
not suprising with the amount of rain we have!!!

Col

Lana

Havel,

Thanks for your experience, that really helps. We are preparing by it by having my
husband get loads more certificates before we go (he has 3 now, we are thinking 5-6
more) and getting ready to take a non-IT job too, just in case. And it looks like my
dream of going to school will be just a dream, and I'll need a full-time job to help.

Lana

[email protected] (Havel) wrote in message
news:<[email protected]. com>...
    > I came to Sydney and started to look for job 9 weeks ago. It is very tough here.
    > There are many people looking for job and not too many positions.
    >
    > I have about 5 years SW developing experience (4 years Ada, 3 years C++) and I can
    > hardly get even an interview. I replied to 65 ads already and got only two
    > interviews where I competed with at least 8 other people for a single position. It
    > is hard for Australians and it is much harder for immigrants because:
    >
    > a) Many jobs are word of mouth, come from networking (it is estimated these are 80%
    > of the jobs), if you just came and don't anyone you excluded from this hidden
    > job market
    >
    > b) You excluded from defence related jobs (and since the defence spending is quite
    > big at the moment, this is significant portion of jobs) because these positions
    > require citizenship
    >
    > c) Agencies or employers sometimes require Australian experience or Australian
    > degree
    >
    > I think a) and b) fair enough, but what pisses me off the most is c), since I
    > really don’t know what is so special on IT in Australia apart from fact that
    > it pays less and has less opportunities.
    >
    > Because there are so many people looking for job agencies and employers are also
    > extremely picky. I have 3 years of C++ but only 2 years of Visual C++ and therefore
    > I can’t apply for job advertising 3 years of Visual C++ (and I’m not
    > talking about funny advertisements asking repeatedly for 3 years of Windows XP
    > experience).
    >
    > If you look on www.jobnet.com.au or www.MyCareer.com.au websites, where the most of
    > agencies advertise, for the first time, you think great, that’s not so bad,
    > quite few jobs there! But if you actually start to study the openings and apply for
    > them, after few weeks you find out that the offer is not so great and many agencies
    > advertise the same position for months (I can’t believe they can’t fill
    > the position). I have no idea what’s going on in there.
    >
    > Sorry about being so negative, but I’m frustrated and that’s just how I
    > feel at the moment. In any case I’m not giving up yet.
    >
    > Anyone with a positive experience?
    >
    > Havel

Havel

Lana,

The most of ads seems to look for people with a particular long-time experience. E.g.
somebody looking for a C++ programmer will require at least 3 years of C++
programming on a particular platform. I worked for a consulting company and projects
varied so I have quite wide range of skills but no particular skill for a long time.
And this makes it harder for me here. So I'm not really sure if having loads of
certificates (if they come from different areas) will be a big advantage.

Anyway I can't really complain too much. My wife is a teacher and she got a job
stright away! For a nice salary for which we can live quite comfortably here. And the
best of Australia - beaches, climate, vast unspoilt nature comes for free anyway!

Good luck, Havel

[email protected] (Lana) wrote in message
news:<[email protected]. com>...
    > Havel,
    >
    > Thanks for your experience, that really helps. We are preparing by it by having my
    > husband get loads more certificates before we go (he has 3 now, we are thinking
    > 5-6 more) and getting ready to take a non-IT job too, just in case. And it looks
    > like my dream of going to school will be just a dream, and I'll need a full-time
    > job to help.
    >
    > Lana

Lana

Thanks again Havel.

Actually, my husband has quite specific experience - he has worked with the same few
things for his whole career (6 years). We are just afraid his resume with overseas
experience won't be taken seriously, and that he'll need certificates to prove that
he knows the things he has always worked with. Our backup plan since he speaks
Japanese is to take a bilingual helpdesk job, since there seem to be plenty of offers
for those.

Our biggest problem is that my qualifications aren't worth a thing there (I am an
interpreter/translator and teach English as a Foreign Language - ha! My honors degree
in Political Science is also not valid), so if I get a job, it'll be the
floor-scrubbing type and that doesn't pay much. So we are relying on his getting a
job mostly.

Lana

[email protected] (Havel) wrote in message
news:<[email protected]. com>...
    > Lana,
    >
    > The most of ads seems to look for people with a particular long-time experience.
    > E.g. somebody looking for a C++ programmer will require at least 3 years of C++
    > programming on a particular platform. I worked for a consulting company and
    > projects varied so I have quite wide range of skills but no particular skill for a
    > long time. And this makes it harder for me here. So I'm not really sure if having
    > loads of certificates (if they come from different areas) will be a big advantage.
    >
    > Anyway I can't really complain too much. My wife is a teacher and she got a job
    > stright away! For a nice salary for which we can live quite comfortably here.
    > And the best of Australia - beaches, climate, vast unspoilt nature comes for
    > free anyway!
    >
    > Good luck, Havel

Sandra

Only been in Sydney 4 weeks - bought a car, rear wheel drive, automatic, tyres spin in the wet when I put my foot down! (slowly)!! From Standing!!! It has rained every day for a few hours for the last four days - It is winter I know! Husband had nice bike in the UK (will have again soon I hope here in Aus). I came off the back (he went under the car in front - gently!!!) in the UK (dry) when we hit diesel on a road and cars drove round us as we must have caused them inconvenience!!! After Car experience here and weather, we are now considering that a Bike in Sydney might also be a summer thing. We did have different dreams!!!

Think what I am trying to say is it is a bit of both everywhere and on the main thread - I am in IT on a transfer with work (457 temp visa) from the UK but our main applicant is my husband as a Printer. We are lucky in lots of ways, ie we are here but still waiting for PR, we have one job between two, would not like to live on low income in Sydney, would be frightening with rent and housing compared to home life in UK. We did consider husband going back to college (or something else) he is now filling in job applications to make the difference. I know others are going elsewhere in Aus and our experience is not the same.

Out of interest has anyone tried talking to companies looking for IT workers in Aus and saying the PR is a personal formality? Does it make a difference?

The beaches are fab, Mona Vale and Manly so far, Birds are spectacular - cockatoos, Kookaburras, parrots etc, and I am currently staying in a busy apartment area in Hornsby.

col

Sandra

I'm gutted girl! You telling me I can't play all year round cos the roads a C&%P oh no this is a nightmare....... some body wake me up pleeeeeaaaase...............



Col

simorgan

Hi People,
IT is bad here in Australia, and after leaving a very secure team leaders position last year in England to move here, I'm still not working in IT. Sydney is a difficult place to live without a 'career' so think of the money sitch before deciding where you're going to settle down. Living in Brisbane is great as everything is one third the price of Sydney. We recently moved from sydney for a better lifestyle in Brisbane, and it's too bloody cold and wet in Sydney this time of year.
Changing career can be difficult if you have no experience in anything else. Australia thrives on 'experience required' job ads, but you can always lie.
If your partner can get work straight away, then maybe do a TAFE (college) course and fast track to a more interesting career.
I too learned that IT is not the be all & end all, time for a break guy's hey?
All the best in your endeavours!!

Andrew

That's not quite true. There are IT jobs in Australia - just not as many as there
were a couple of years ago. It is harder for an IT immigrant to get a job than it was
before but not impossible. Maybe I'm an optimist but most of the current systems will
need replacing/upgrading sooner or later, so I'm sure the market will pick up - it's
just a matter of when. You could either take your chance and come now but be prepared
for a long wait or wait a while to see if the market picks up. I've know of one guy
who couldn't get an job a a surveyor (and stay working in the city), so after 2 years
he became a citizen, and while mostly supported by his wife he went back to do a
computing course at Uni and is now successfully working in IT.

It maybe just my impression but the Sydney market seems to showing the first signs of
life. Hopefully, the market up here in Brisbane will be picking up soon.

So it works both ways, AndyH. "Always look on the bright side of life" - Monty Python

[email protected] (Jonny Deng) wrote in message
news:<[email protected]. com>...
    > Hi,
    >
    > I had read on the net numerous comments that there is rare IT jobs in Oz. Is
    > it true?
    >
    > Can someone who migrated to Oz give us who'd like to migrate to Oz some advice?
    >
    > Anything, encouraging or discouraging is welcome.
    >
    > Thanks Jonny

Havel

Hi,

How is the IT job market in Brisbane? Are you still trying or you gave up IT
completely?

I'm thinking about changing career too. But what to do if all jobs openings seems to
be obsessed with years of experience? A bloke I met last week is here on the student
visa, he was looking for a part time job and had to lie that he had a year dish
washing experience to get a dish washing job...

Google Groups

[email protected] (Andrew) wrote in message
news:<[email protected]. com>...
    > That's not quite true. There are IT jobs in Australia - just not as

....

    > It maybe just my impression but the Sydney market seems to showing the first signs
    > of life. Hopefully, the market up here in Brisbane will be picking up soon.

Hi Andrew,

Are you aware of some on-line resource which can help us get a true feeling of
what's the job market really like? What makes you think that the Sydney market is
picking up?

Thanks, and good luck.

--Amos

ANGLOBRUCE

do what I did - apply to various recruitment consultancys, say you have sales experience, and ask whether they have any roles in the consultancy, get a job with them find out who has vacancys and approach them directly (and discreetly)

For immigrants it is a really good way to start networking within the industry and applying direct means that the company will not have to pay large fees to the recruitment consultant if your successful.

Also I have found that there is an underlying racism towards the english searching for jobs.

The job market is poor and most vacancy posts are false.

The weather in Melbourne is awful, the place is quite a novety at first but after a while rather dull - so we are coming back home to blighty.

Reborn patriot just throwing in his 2 pennies worth

Andrew

Hi Amos,

One of the indicators I've used is a an email job notification service from
www.jobnet.com.au (which is obviously a very innacurate indicator). When I started
using this service in early 2000, I would receive a notification for a job in my
tech. field literally once a month - now they are approximately once a week. Also
when talking to other contractors (some of which have worked in Sydney) I get the
general feeling that the market is starting to pick-up *VERY SLOWLY*. So I suppose
it's it's more of a gut feeling the any hard facts and hopefully not wishful
thinking! Unfortunately the rates are still rock botton with little hope of raising
in the near future.

FYI, UK jobserve are coming to Australia soon (see
http://www.news.jobserve.com/NewsStory.asp?SID=698). Their website to register an
interest is http://www.job-serve.com.au. If they do a similar service here in Oz to
the one they do in the UK it would really help to give a clearer picture of the state
of the market here in Oz.

Hope this helps, AndyH

BTW, ANGLOBUCE have you considered working in a different city such as Perth, Sydney
or Brisbane if the weather is that bad in Melbourne! Did you really suffer *racism*
in Melbourne or was it bigotry for being English (sorry I don't mean to nitpick - I'm
just confused)?

[email protected] wrote in message
news:<[email protected]. com>...
    > [email protected] (Andrew) wrote in message
    > news:<[email protected]. com>...
    > > That's not quite true. There are IT jobs in Australia - just not as
    >
    > ....
    >
    > > It maybe just my impression but the Sydney market seems to showing the first
    > > signs of life. Hopefully, the market up here in Brisbane will be picking up soon.
    >
    > Hi Andrew,
    >
    > Are you aware of some on-line resource which can help us get a true feeling of
    > what's the job market really like? What makes you think that the Sydney market is
    > picking up?
    >
    > Thanks, and good luck.
    >

ANGLOBRUCE <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:<[email protected]>...
    > do what I did - apply to various recruitment consultancys, say you have sales
    > experience, and ask whether they have any roles in the consultancy, get a job with
    > them find out who has vacancys and approach them directly (and discreetly)
    >
    > For immigrants it is a really good way to start networking within the industry and
    > applying direct means that the company will not have to pay large fees to the
    > recruitment consultant if your successful.
    >
    > Also I have found that there is an underlying racism towards the english searching
    > for jobs.
    >
    > The job market is poor and most vacancy posts are false.
    >
    > The weather in Melbourne is awful, the place is quite a novety at first but after a
    > while rather dull - so we are coming back home to blighty.
    >
    > Reborn patriot just throwing in his 2 pennies worth