Helping hands from down under !
Dec 15th 2006, 11:09 am
#1
Forum Regular
Thread Starter
Joined: Dec 2006
Location: Brisbane - Qld
Posts: 84
Helping hands from down under !
To engage or not to engage – migration agent / lawyer
I have read one or two comments on Migration Agents / Lawyers from users of this forum being concerned about the costs - are they excessive ? do I need to engage one ?
The above questions can also be mooted by the speed of which you need to complete the application, if you are being sponsored, your confidence in completing the paperwork and lastly have you the budget - if this point is one that is most important, I would strongly advise you to reconsider your move to Australia, unless it a Refugee or Humanitarian visa application.
Having moved some 5 years ago from the UK with a family of 6, setting up my own immigration, Visa and recruitment support service and therefore in the 'loop' there is no question that like any industry or profession you have the 'bad ' apples - its impossible to prevent.
However, with a Forum such as this you create a 'word of mouth' and relatively timely warning system.
I appreciate for those that are unhappy or feel they have been 'ripped off' it's too late. But for those embarking upon this decision of do I need one and if so which one, consider the following ;
An Agent and Lawyer are not necessarily the same - a registered migration agent has studied all they need to achieve a pass to be able to register (MARA) give and charge for there advice on visa applications lawfully.
A migration agent (unlawful) can be a non registered (may have studied, may have been previously registered) person resident outside of Australia, practicing and at present beyond the 'arms' of Australian law.
A lawyer has studied law (one side or the other) and has qualified to practice in their area able to represent and able to give professional Australian visa advice - however a lawyer does not have to have studied (in-depth) migration law.
A lawyer can conduct Australian visa Appeals, should you have a serious set back - where most if not all agents would not enter this aspect.
There are two distinct and separate elements which are very important to a move overseas and all to often I see the 'cart before the horse' or just the cart.
For me the first aspect is - comprehensive immigration advice and researching where, why, who, when and how. What are your/our objectives, is it right for me/us all now, or perhaps later (the resources to see it through for around 3-5 years).
Remember "how do you know, what you dont know" you must research, get assistance, ask questions – use this forum, chat with people who have moved and used such services. This is your special move and is so important to get it right - to go or not to go - even if you are assured of a visa, is it right for and right for you now ?
Most agents, lawyers are all to happy to give visa advice (mainly chargeable) and a few links or outsource what appears to be the general or family need requirements.
All too often migration agents/lawyers are giving immigration advice on a subject for which they have not migrated (anywhere) some have not even stepped out of Australia and in the worse case, some have never visited Australia.
The second element is the visa application and this should only be progressed, if the conditions are right from the outset and the first element of immigration is conducted. Yes, I appreciate there is the ‘chicken & egg’ but there are a number of websites (online assessment) and companies that will allow online or free initial interview to determine your eligibility – giving you a brief indication.
But to determine if you want to go through the trials and tribulations of the visa process and the move, you must clearly set out your reasoning, set objectives and parameters.
For the visa application, either agent / lawyer will have set fees or a charge per hour and you must before engaging, check ;
- Ensure MARA registered
- Ask for a Schedule of Fees to include fixed charges and hourly rates
- Check for any expertise that maybe applicable for you, rather than a
generalist (retiree / business, etc)
- Dispute Resolution policy
- Location of personnel (within Australia or outside) most of the negative press associated with immigration and recruitment of people from overseas at present, is from agents/lawyers operating from outside of Australia
The above is of course my opinion and factual observations (not exhaustive) which I hope helps add another perspective for you to consider, when deciding on which (and if) company you honour and trust with such a huge responsibility - if at all.
Chris
I have read one or two comments on Migration Agents / Lawyers from users of this forum being concerned about the costs - are they excessive ? do I need to engage one ?
The above questions can also be mooted by the speed of which you need to complete the application, if you are being sponsored, your confidence in completing the paperwork and lastly have you the budget - if this point is one that is most important, I would strongly advise you to reconsider your move to Australia, unless it a Refugee or Humanitarian visa application.
Having moved some 5 years ago from the UK with a family of 6, setting up my own immigration, Visa and recruitment support service and therefore in the 'loop' there is no question that like any industry or profession you have the 'bad ' apples - its impossible to prevent.
However, with a Forum such as this you create a 'word of mouth' and relatively timely warning system.
I appreciate for those that are unhappy or feel they have been 'ripped off' it's too late. But for those embarking upon this decision of do I need one and if so which one, consider the following ;
An Agent and Lawyer are not necessarily the same - a registered migration agent has studied all they need to achieve a pass to be able to register (MARA) give and charge for there advice on visa applications lawfully.
A migration agent (unlawful) can be a non registered (may have studied, may have been previously registered) person resident outside of Australia, practicing and at present beyond the 'arms' of Australian law.
A lawyer has studied law (one side or the other) and has qualified to practice in their area able to represent and able to give professional Australian visa advice - however a lawyer does not have to have studied (in-depth) migration law.
A lawyer can conduct Australian visa Appeals, should you have a serious set back - where most if not all agents would not enter this aspect.
There are two distinct and separate elements which are very important to a move overseas and all to often I see the 'cart before the horse' or just the cart.
For me the first aspect is - comprehensive immigration advice and researching where, why, who, when and how. What are your/our objectives, is it right for me/us all now, or perhaps later (the resources to see it through for around 3-5 years).
Remember "how do you know, what you dont know" you must research, get assistance, ask questions – use this forum, chat with people who have moved and used such services. This is your special move and is so important to get it right - to go or not to go - even if you are assured of a visa, is it right for and right for you now ?
Most agents, lawyers are all to happy to give visa advice (mainly chargeable) and a few links or outsource what appears to be the general or family need requirements.
All too often migration agents/lawyers are giving immigration advice on a subject for which they have not migrated (anywhere) some have not even stepped out of Australia and in the worse case, some have never visited Australia.
The second element is the visa application and this should only be progressed, if the conditions are right from the outset and the first element of immigration is conducted. Yes, I appreciate there is the ‘chicken & egg’ but there are a number of websites (online assessment) and companies that will allow online or free initial interview to determine your eligibility – giving you a brief indication.
But to determine if you want to go through the trials and tribulations of the visa process and the move, you must clearly set out your reasoning, set objectives and parameters.
For the visa application, either agent / lawyer will have set fees or a charge per hour and you must before engaging, check ;
- Ensure MARA registered
- Ask for a Schedule of Fees to include fixed charges and hourly rates
- Check for any expertise that maybe applicable for you, rather than a
generalist (retiree / business, etc)
- Dispute Resolution policy
- Location of personnel (within Australia or outside) most of the negative press associated with immigration and recruitment of people from overseas at present, is from agents/lawyers operating from outside of Australia
The above is of course my opinion and factual observations (not exhaustive) which I hope helps add another perspective for you to consider, when deciding on which (and if) company you honour and trust with such a huge responsibility - if at all.
Chris
Last edited by Sue; Dec 15th 2006 at 1:25 pm. Reason: URL removed already in signature.
Dec 15th 2006, 8:32 pm
#2
Forum Regular
Joined: Aug 2005
Location: Mountain Creek, Sunshine Coast
Posts: 85
Re: Helping hands from down under !
Originally Posted by Australia Immigration
To engage or not to engage – migration agent / lawyer
I have read one or two comments on Migration Agents / Lawyers from users of this forum being concerned about the costs - are they excessive ? do I need to engage one ?
The above questions can also be mooted by the speed of which you need to complete the application, if you are being sponsored, your confidence in completing the paperwork and lastly have you the budget - if this point is one that is most important, I would strongly advise you to reconsider your move to Australia, unless it a Refugee or Humanitarian visa application.
Having moved some 5 years ago from the UK with a family of 6, setting up my own immigration, Visa and recruitment support service and therefore in the 'loop' there is no question that like any industry or profession you have the 'bad ' apples - its impossible to prevent.
However, with a Forum such as this you create a 'word of mouth' and relatively timely warning system.
I appreciate for those that are unhappy or feel they have been 'ripped off' it's too late. But for those embarking upon this decision of do I need one and if so which one, consider the following ;
An Agent and Lawyer are not necessarily the same - a registered migration agent has studied all they need to achieve a pass to be able to register (MARA) give and charge for there advice on visa applications lawfully.
A migration agent (unlawful) can be a non registered (may have studied, may have been previously registered) person resident outside of Australia, practicing and at present beyond the 'arms' of Australian law.
A lawyer has studied law (one side or the other) and has qualified to practice in their area able to represent and able to give professional Australian visa advice - however a lawyer does not have to have studied (in-depth) migration law.
A lawyer can conduct Australian visa Appeals, should you have a serious set back - where most if not all agents would not enter this aspect.
There are two distinct and separate elements which are very important to a move overseas and all to often I see the 'cart before the horse' or just the cart.
For me the first aspect is - comprehensive immigration advice and researching where, why, who, when and how. What are your/our objectives, is it right for me/us all now, or perhaps later (the resources to see it through for around 3-5 years).
Remember "how do you know, what you dont know" you must research, get assistance, ask questions – use this forum, chat with people who have moved and used such services. This is your special move and is so important to get it right - to go or not to go - even if you are assured of a visa, is it right for and right for you now ?
Most agents, lawyers are all to happy to give visa advice (mainly chargeable) and a few links or outsource what appears to be the general or family need requirements.
All too often migration agents/lawyers are giving immigration advice on a subject for which they have not migrated (anywhere) some have not even stepped out of Australia and in the worse case, some have never visited Australia.
The second element is the visa application and this should only be progressed, if the conditions are right from the outset and the first element of immigration is conducted. Yes, I appreciate there is the ‘chicken & egg’ but there are a number of websites (online assessment) and companies that will allow online or free initial interview to determine your eligibility – giving you a brief indication.
But to determine if you want to go through the trials and tribulations of the visa process and the move, you must clearly set out your reasoning, set objectives and parameters.
For the visa application, either agent / lawyer will have set fees or a charge per hour and you must before engaging, check ;
- Ensure MARA registered
- Ask for a Schedule of Fees to include fixed charges and hourly rates
- Check for any expertise that maybe applicable for you, rather than a
generalist (retiree / business, etc)
- Dispute Resolution policy
- Location of personnel (within Australia or outside) most of the negative press associated with immigration and recruitment of people from overseas at present, is from agents/lawyers operating from outside of Australia
The above is of course my opinion and factual observations (not exhaustive) which I hope helps add another perspective for you to consider, when deciding on which (and if) company you honour and trust with such a huge responsibility - if at all.
Chris
I have read one or two comments on Migration Agents / Lawyers from users of this forum being concerned about the costs - are they excessive ? do I need to engage one ?
The above questions can also be mooted by the speed of which you need to complete the application, if you are being sponsored, your confidence in completing the paperwork and lastly have you the budget - if this point is one that is most important, I would strongly advise you to reconsider your move to Australia, unless it a Refugee or Humanitarian visa application.
Having moved some 5 years ago from the UK with a family of 6, setting up my own immigration, Visa and recruitment support service and therefore in the 'loop' there is no question that like any industry or profession you have the 'bad ' apples - its impossible to prevent.
However, with a Forum such as this you create a 'word of mouth' and relatively timely warning system.
I appreciate for those that are unhappy or feel they have been 'ripped off' it's too late. But for those embarking upon this decision of do I need one and if so which one, consider the following ;
An Agent and Lawyer are not necessarily the same - a registered migration agent has studied all they need to achieve a pass to be able to register (MARA) give and charge for there advice on visa applications lawfully.
A migration agent (unlawful) can be a non registered (may have studied, may have been previously registered) person resident outside of Australia, practicing and at present beyond the 'arms' of Australian law.
A lawyer has studied law (one side or the other) and has qualified to practice in their area able to represent and able to give professional Australian visa advice - however a lawyer does not have to have studied (in-depth) migration law.
A lawyer can conduct Australian visa Appeals, should you have a serious set back - where most if not all agents would not enter this aspect.
There are two distinct and separate elements which are very important to a move overseas and all to often I see the 'cart before the horse' or just the cart.
For me the first aspect is - comprehensive immigration advice and researching where, why, who, when and how. What are your/our objectives, is it right for me/us all now, or perhaps later (the resources to see it through for around 3-5 years).
Remember "how do you know, what you dont know" you must research, get assistance, ask questions – use this forum, chat with people who have moved and used such services. This is your special move and is so important to get it right - to go or not to go - even if you are assured of a visa, is it right for and right for you now ?
Most agents, lawyers are all to happy to give visa advice (mainly chargeable) and a few links or outsource what appears to be the general or family need requirements.
All too often migration agents/lawyers are giving immigration advice on a subject for which they have not migrated (anywhere) some have not even stepped out of Australia and in the worse case, some have never visited Australia.
The second element is the visa application and this should only be progressed, if the conditions are right from the outset and the first element of immigration is conducted. Yes, I appreciate there is the ‘chicken & egg’ but there are a number of websites (online assessment) and companies that will allow online or free initial interview to determine your eligibility – giving you a brief indication.
But to determine if you want to go through the trials and tribulations of the visa process and the move, you must clearly set out your reasoning, set objectives and parameters.
For the visa application, either agent / lawyer will have set fees or a charge per hour and you must before engaging, check ;
- Ensure MARA registered
- Ask for a Schedule of Fees to include fixed charges and hourly rates
- Check for any expertise that maybe applicable for you, rather than a
generalist (retiree / business, etc)
- Dispute Resolution policy
- Location of personnel (within Australia or outside) most of the negative press associated with immigration and recruitment of people from overseas at present, is from agents/lawyers operating from outside of Australia
The above is of course my opinion and factual observations (not exhaustive) which I hope helps add another perspective for you to consider, when deciding on which (and if) company you honour and trust with such a huge responsibility - if at all.
Chris
Great speech! I'm really confused on what point you are trying to get across here. There are without doubt good agents and some really bad agents out there. I'm not sure if you are trying to defend them all? I've read the above two or three times now and as well as your website it's all over the place.
I'm pretty sure if someone has decided they are going to emigrate to Australia they haven't just fallen out of bed and decided that's what they are going to do. Like all things in life when you need a service you like to get a recommendation. Plumbers, mechanics, electricians, migration agents - all the same, good ones and bad ones. What people want is transparency. They want to know what they are getting and what it's going to cost them.
Simple really, don't you think?
Dec 15th 2006, 9:04 pm
#3
Joined: Jan 2005
Location: Asia Pacific
Posts: 4,922
Re: Helping hands from down under !
Originally Posted by Australia Immigration
To engage or not to engage – migration agent / lawyer
I have read one or two comments on Migration Agents / Lawyers from users of this forum being concerned about the costs - are they excessive ? do I need to engage one ?
The above questions can also be mooted by the speed of which you need to complete the application, if you are being sponsored, your confidence in completing the paperwork and lastly have you the budget - if this point is one that is most important, I would strongly advise you to reconsider your move to Australia, unless it a Refugee or Humanitarian visa application.
Having moved some 5 years ago from the UK with a family of 6, setting up my own immigration, Visa and recruitment support service and therefore in the 'loop' there is no question that like any industry or profession you have the 'bad ' apples - its impossible to prevent.
However, with a Forum such as this you create a 'word of mouth' and relatively timely warning system.
I appreciate for those that are unhappy or feel they have been 'ripped off' it's too late. But for those embarking upon this decision of do I need one and if so which one, consider the following ;
An Agent and Lawyer are not necessarily the same - a registered migration agent has studied all they need to achieve a pass to be able to register (MARA) give and charge for there advice on visa applications lawfully.
A migration agent (unlawful) can be a non registered (may have studied, may have been previously registered) person resident outside of Australia, practicing and at present beyond the 'arms' of Australian law.
A lawyer has studied law (one side or the other) and has qualified to practice in their area able to represent and able to give professional Australian visa advice - however a lawyer does not have to have studied (in-depth) migration law.
A lawyer can conduct Australian visa Appeals, should you have a serious set back - where most if not all agents would not enter this aspect.
There are two distinct and separate elements which are very important to a move overseas and all to often I see the 'cart before the horse' or just the cart.
For me the first aspect is - comprehensive immigration advice and researching where, why, who, when and how. What are your/our objectives, is it right for me/us all now, or perhaps later (the resources to see it through for around 3-5 years).
Remember "how do you know, what you dont know" you must research, get assistance, ask questions – use this forum, chat with people who have moved and used such services. This is your special move and is so important to get it right - to go or not to go - even if you are assured of a visa, is it right for and right for you now ?
Most agents, lawyers are all to happy to give visa advice (mainly chargeable) and a few links or outsource what appears to be the general or family need requirements.
All too often migration agents/lawyers are giving immigration advice on a subject for which they have not migrated (anywhere) some have not even stepped out of Australia and in the worse case, some have never visited Australia.
The second element is the visa application and this should only be progressed, if the conditions are right from the outset and the first element of immigration is conducted. Yes, I appreciate there is the ‘chicken & egg’ but there are a number of websites (online assessment) and companies that will allow online or free initial interview to determine your eligibility – giving you a brief indication.
But to determine if you want to go through the trials and tribulations of the visa process and the move, you must clearly set out your reasoning, set objectives and parameters.
For the visa application, either agent / lawyer will have set fees or a charge per hour and you must before engaging, check ;
- Ensure MARA registered
- Ask for a Schedule of Fees to include fixed charges and hourly rates
- Check for any expertise that maybe applicable for you, rather than a
generalist (retiree / business, etc)
- Dispute Resolution policy
- Location of personnel (within Australia or outside) most of the negative press associated with immigration and recruitment of people from overseas at present, is from agents/lawyers operating from outside of Australia
The above is of course my opinion and factual observations (not exhaustive) which I hope helps add another perspective for you to consider, when deciding on which (and if) company you honour and trust with such a huge responsibility - if at all.
Chris
I have read one or two comments on Migration Agents / Lawyers from users of this forum being concerned about the costs - are they excessive ? do I need to engage one ?
The above questions can also be mooted by the speed of which you need to complete the application, if you are being sponsored, your confidence in completing the paperwork and lastly have you the budget - if this point is one that is most important, I would strongly advise you to reconsider your move to Australia, unless it a Refugee or Humanitarian visa application.
Having moved some 5 years ago from the UK with a family of 6, setting up my own immigration, Visa and recruitment support service and therefore in the 'loop' there is no question that like any industry or profession you have the 'bad ' apples - its impossible to prevent.
However, with a Forum such as this you create a 'word of mouth' and relatively timely warning system.
I appreciate for those that are unhappy or feel they have been 'ripped off' it's too late. But for those embarking upon this decision of do I need one and if so which one, consider the following ;
An Agent and Lawyer are not necessarily the same - a registered migration agent has studied all they need to achieve a pass to be able to register (MARA) give and charge for there advice on visa applications lawfully.
A migration agent (unlawful) can be a non registered (may have studied, may have been previously registered) person resident outside of Australia, practicing and at present beyond the 'arms' of Australian law.
A lawyer has studied law (one side or the other) and has qualified to practice in their area able to represent and able to give professional Australian visa advice - however a lawyer does not have to have studied (in-depth) migration law.
A lawyer can conduct Australian visa Appeals, should you have a serious set back - where most if not all agents would not enter this aspect.
There are two distinct and separate elements which are very important to a move overseas and all to often I see the 'cart before the horse' or just the cart.
For me the first aspect is - comprehensive immigration advice and researching where, why, who, when and how. What are your/our objectives, is it right for me/us all now, or perhaps later (the resources to see it through for around 3-5 years).
Remember "how do you know, what you dont know" you must research, get assistance, ask questions – use this forum, chat with people who have moved and used such services. This is your special move and is so important to get it right - to go or not to go - even if you are assured of a visa, is it right for and right for you now ?
Most agents, lawyers are all to happy to give visa advice (mainly chargeable) and a few links or outsource what appears to be the general or family need requirements.
All too often migration agents/lawyers are giving immigration advice on a subject for which they have not migrated (anywhere) some have not even stepped out of Australia and in the worse case, some have never visited Australia.
The second element is the visa application and this should only be progressed, if the conditions are right from the outset and the first element of immigration is conducted. Yes, I appreciate there is the ‘chicken & egg’ but there are a number of websites (online assessment) and companies that will allow online or free initial interview to determine your eligibility – giving you a brief indication.
But to determine if you want to go through the trials and tribulations of the visa process and the move, you must clearly set out your reasoning, set objectives and parameters.
For the visa application, either agent / lawyer will have set fees or a charge per hour and you must before engaging, check ;
- Ensure MARA registered
- Ask for a Schedule of Fees to include fixed charges and hourly rates
- Check for any expertise that maybe applicable for you, rather than a
generalist (retiree / business, etc)
- Dispute Resolution policy
- Location of personnel (within Australia or outside) most of the negative press associated with immigration and recruitment of people from overseas at present, is from agents/lawyers operating from outside of Australia
The above is of course my opinion and factual observations (not exhaustive) which I hope helps add another perspective for you to consider, when deciding on which (and if) company you honour and trust with such a huge responsibility - if at all.
Chris
These companies abide by the mara code of conduct, which basically is a fairly useless code. If migration agents really wanted to self regulate and be transparent then they would consider operating a recommended scale of fees, a complaints procedure with teeth etc.
Your own site appears to be a nice umbrella site but what company are you exactly ? Not transparent is it really.....
Nobody doubts the use of a migration agent for advice but some in your industry are nothing more than wolves preying on ignorance. There are many awesome agents who have been posting to this site for years with excellent personal recommendations. There are also the completely terrible......
Dec 15th 2006, 9:05 pm
#4
Joined: Jan 2005
Location: Asia Pacific
Posts: 4,922
Re: Helping hands from down under !
Originally Posted by Bosshogg
Hi Chris
Great speech! I'm really confused on what point you are trying to get across here.
Great speech! I'm really confused on what point you are trying to get across here.
Dec 15th 2006, 10:47 pm
#5
Home and Happy
Joined: Dec 2002
Location: Keep true friends and puppets close, trust no-one else...
Posts: 93,815
Re: Helping hands from down under !
This thread is being closed as it appears to be promoting one agent, even though some of the information is useful.
