British Expats

British Expats (https://britishexpats.com/forum/)
-   Immigration, Visas & Citizenship (Australia) (https://britishexpats.com/forum/immigration-visas-citizenship-australia-32/)
-   -   Citizenship - Time Overseas (https://britishexpats.com/forum/immigration-visas-citizenship-australia-32/citizenship-time-overseas-674469/)

callaghan.nick Jun 29th 2010 9:42 am

Citizenship - Time Overseas
 
Hi,

I have been living in Australia temp spousal visa 309 since feb 2004 and permanent resident 100 since march 2006. In May 2008 I left Australia and was overseas till Nov 2009. I have been living in Australia since then.

This means I have been caught out by the rule change that applies as of July 2010. However i just read on the citizenship website the following:

"Spouses and partners of Australian citizens do not have an automatic right to Australian citizenship. You will need to apply for citizenship and satisfy the eligibility criteria in the same way as other adult applicants.
However, you may be eligible for a variation to the residence requirement. This means the time you spent overseas while a permanent resident may be counted as time spent in Australia, providing you can demonstrate a close connection to Australia
"

Does anyone have information about this? I am married to and Australian since Nov 2009 and partner for several years. Can I qualify for the above I cannot find any information on their website. Any help much appreciated!
Thanks,
Nick

paddyo Jun 29th 2010 9:45 am

Re: Citizenship - Time Overseas
 

Originally Posted by callaghan.nick (Post 8664963)
Hi,

I have been living in Australia temp spousal visa 309 since feb 2004 and permanent resident 100 since march 2006. In May 2008 I left Australia and was overseas till Nov 2009. I have been living in Australia since then.

This means I have been caught out by the rule change that applies as of July 2010. However i just read on the citizenship website the following:

"Spouses and partners of Australian citizens do not have an automatic right to Australian citizenship. You will need to apply for citizenship and satisfy the eligibility criteria in the same way as other adult applicants.
However, you may be eligible for a variation to the residence requirement. This means the time you spent overseas while a permanent resident may be counted as time spent in Australia, providing you can demonstrate a close connection to Australia
"

Does anyone have information about this? I am married to and Australian since Nov 2009 and partner for several years. Can I qualify for the above I cannot find any information on their website. Any help much appreciated!
Thanks,
Nick

Hmmm, interesting. Was your spouse overseas with you? If so then that may invalidate your option, I think the special circumstance may apply if you had children or other close family in Australia whilst away. But, its only a guess so its worth pursuing.

callaghan.nick Jun 29th 2010 9:55 am

Re: Citizenship - Time Overseas
 
Yeah spouse was overseas with me

Shellyj Jun 29th 2010 10:00 am

Re: Citizenship - Time Overseas
 
I've seen one of the mods post on this do a search. I dont think the Spouse being overseas with you rules it out but if you were going to try and use this you would probably need the help of an agent who knows the rules properly.

callaghan.nick Jun 29th 2010 10:08 am

Re: Citizenship - Time Overseas
 
Thanks! I have been searching the forum for a while now and could not find any information on this subject... will continue searching and hoping :)

JAJ Jun 29th 2010 10:10 am

Re: Citizenship - Time Overseas
 

Originally Posted by Shellyj (Post 8665002)
I've seen one of the mods post on this do a search. I dont think the Spouse being overseas with you rules it out but if you were going to try and use this you would probably need the help of an agent who knows the rules properly.

Most agents never deal with citizenship cases.

Much smarter to read the Australian Citizenship Instructions which explain everything:
http://www.citizenship.gov.au/learn/law-and-policy/

zultan Jun 29th 2010 10:54 am

Re: Citizenship - Time Overseas
 

Originally Posted by JAJ (Post 8665035)
Most agents never deal with citizenship cases.

Much smarter to read the Australian Citizenship Instructions which explain everything:
http://www.citizenship.gov.au/learn/law-and-policy/

I think this is the bit:


MINISTERIAL DISCRETION - SPOUSE, DE FACTO PARTNER OR SURVIVING
SPOUSE OR DE FACTO PARTNER OF AN AUSTRALIAN CITIZEN (S22(9) & (10))
From 15 March 2009, the same-sex de facto partner of an Australian citizen who is seeking a
residence discretion should be assessed against the criteria at 22(9) of the Act, and not 22(11), as was
the case previously.
Under s22(9), periods spent overseas by a permanent resident who is the spouse, de facto partner or
surviving spouse or de facto partner of an Australian citizen at the time of making an application, can
be counted as periods of permanent residence in Australia.
The discretion to treat periods spent overseas by an applicant as periods during which the applicant
was present in Australia as a permanent resident can only be applied to periods when:
������ the applicant was the spouse or de facto partner of a person who was an Australian citizen, and
������ the applicant was a permanent resident and
������ the applicant had a close and continuing association with Australia (see below).

If the applicant is the surviving spouse or de facto partner of an Australian citizen, they can only count
time while their Australian citizen spouse or de facto partner was alive.
Policy is that this discretion would usually only be exercised if the applicant was overseas with their
Australian citizen spouse or de facto partner.

Factors that may contribute to a close and continuing association with Australia include:
������ Australian citizen children
������ length of relationship with Australian citizen spouse or de facto partner
������ extended family in Australia
������ return visits to Australia
������ periods of residence in Australia
������ intention to reside in Australia
������ employment in Australia (eg public or private sector)
������ ownership of property in Australia
������ evidence of income tax payment in Australia and
������ current bank accounts in Australia.
Where the applicant is the spouse, de facto partner, or surviving spouse or de facto partner of an
Australian citizen and they are overseas at the time of decision, this discretion may be applied to
avoid a refusal under s24(5) of the Act, provided the applicant meets the legislative and policy criteria
as outlined above. It may be applied even though the discretion may not be required for the purposes
of meeting the residence requirement.
Don't ask me to interpret it though!

callaghan.nick Jun 29th 2010 11:13 am

Re: Citizenship - Time Overseas
 
Thanks Zultan!

I had just spent ages digging up this part of the document myself and was puzzled on how to interpret it. A little confused I checked my post again hoping for an answer and see that I am not the only person unsure on how to interpret this information. Maybe I should have studied a law degree! Cheers for your assistance.

callaghan.nick Oct 19th 2010 3:20 am

Re: Citizenship - Time Overseas
 
I just spoke to the citizenship help line. They advised making an application and including a letter proving my "close and continuing ties with Australia". Also with supporting documents proving my spouse/partner is a citizen as well as proving the time spent overseas was together etc.

Has anyone gone down this route who can provide feedback on their experience? I would love to get my citizenship:D however not really keen to lose the entire application fee:( or have a failed citizenship application on my record either:(

Thanks!

peaceboy Oct 19th 2010 10:44 am

Re: Citizenship - Time Overseas
 
There are enough resources on the Citizenship website, Why not take time and read??:blink:

JAJ Oct 19th 2010 12:14 pm

Re: Citizenship - Time Overseas
 

Originally Posted by callaghan.nick (Post 8927458)
I just spoke to the citizenship help line. They advised making an application and including a letter proving my "close and continuing ties with Australia". Also with supporting documents proving my spouse/partner is a citizen as well as proving the time spent overseas was together etc.

Has anyone gone down this route who can provide feedback on their experience? I would love to get my citizenship:D however not really keen to lose the entire application fee:( or have a failed citizenship application on my record either

As someone else has suggested, why not read the Citizenship Instructions?

callaghan.nick Oct 19th 2010 10:08 pm

Re: Citizenship - Time Overseas
 
Did you guys read the previous posts?? When it comes to a decision regarding this variation, it is reviewed on a case by case basis. I think I am quite aware of every piece of information on the citizenship website regarding this and in fact knew more about this than the person i got on the phone at the consulate who had to get her supervisor involved. If however Peaceboy you know of some other resources on the Citizenship website i have somehow missed i would be delighted to know about it.


Please see the criteria added again below for your convenience. Now this variation may seem cut and dry to you JAJ and Peaceboy but i personally think it is a bit of a mine field of variables and not clear at all what exactly is required to gain a favourible decision.

Hence i was interested to know if anyone had exercised this to obtain their citizenship and what their experience was like. This i thought was the purpose of this type of forum and i have used it exstensively in the past to obtain my PR and assist others with theirs (before i lost my old user/password).

Thanks for your time but your responses were not really very helpful as it seems neither of you have any experience to share in this particular matter. (see detailed info below re variation)

----------------
"...However, you may be eligible for a variation to the residence requirement. This means the time you spent overseas while a permanent resident may be counted as time spent in Australia, providing you can demonstrate a close connection to Australia"



Factors that may contribute to a close and continuing association with Australia include:
������ Australian citizen children
������ length of relationship with Australian citizen spouse or de facto partner
������ extended family in Australia
������ return visits to Australia
������ periods of residence in Australia
������ intention to reside in Australia
������ employment in Australia (eg public or private sector)
������ ownership of property in Australia
������ evidence of income tax payment in Australia and
������ current bank accounts in Australia.

Pollyana Oct 19th 2010 10:27 pm

Re: Citizenship - Time Overseas
 
Have a read of this thread - http://britishexpats.com/forum/showthread.php?t=640306 - its the only one i can find in a search. I do know its a question thats quite rare on here.

callaghan.nick Oct 19th 2010 10:57 pm

Re: Citizenship - Time Overseas
 
Thanks Pollyana that thread was very helpful!

I am trying to decide whether it is worth payinf the fee in the chance that my case is rejected. If i do have a failed application does anyone know if this is a "black mark" against you in any future citizenship applications? This would be more of a concern than the money of course!

Pollyana Oct 19th 2010 11:03 pm

Re: Citizenship - Time Overseas
 

Originally Posted by callaghan.nick (Post 8929466)
Thanks Pollyana that thread was very helpful!

I am trying to decide whether it is worth payinf the fee in the chance that my case is rejected. If i do have a failed application does anyone know if this is a "black mark" against you in any future citizenship applications? This would be more of a concern than the money of course!

Couldn't say for sure, but I wouldn't have thought so, it'll just be a case of not meeting the criteria and you'd have to apply again when you do. As long as all the paperwork etc that goes in as above board I wouldn't have thought it would get you a black mark or anything.
If yoiu do go ahead - do post on here if its successful, could help the next person :)


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