Australian Permanent Residence.. expiry?
Aug 1st 2003, 2:22 pm
#1
Guest
Posts: n/a
Australian Permanent Residence.. expiry?
Short version:
Once somebody is awarded permanent residence in Australia, can they
leave Australia for an extended period of time without losing it?
Long version:
I am Australian from British and Australian parents.
My girlfriend is Chilean with Spanish grandparents.
We are currently living in Chile.
We aim to live long term in Australia.
We want to live for a while in Europe.
(Europe: Read Spain, Italy, Holland, Portugal, Ireland, UK.. but in no
particular order).
This gives us two courses of action.
Chile -> Europe -> Australia
Chile -> Australia -> Europe -> Australia
I have access to British Nationality by descent. This is currently
being processed.
She has access to Spanish Nationality after living in Spain for a year
though her spanish grandfather. As far as I can tell there is no
"ancestor visa" equivalent in Spain, so she needs to head there to
study, find a job before arriving or be married to somebody with a
european passport. However we don't want to marry until we have the
money for the wedding of the century, and especially don't want to
rush into marriage only to satisfy visa requirements.
I can bring her back to Australia under the De Facto partner
conditions. We would look at living in Aus for three years or so...
which is about as long as I stay in any job. I think its reasonably
safe to say that there would be a wedding in this period.
We would then look at heading to Europe.
Here's the tricky bit.
Spain has a dual nationality agreement with Chile, but not with
Australia, so she can't hold both. So the question is, does she apply
for Australian nationality while we are still in Aus, or aim for
permanent residency and look at gaining Spanish citizenship for her.
If she gets Australian Permanent residency, what will happen if she
then spends 3-5 years out of the country?
(In anticipation of flames, however unlikely they will be on an
immigration group, neither of us regard the "official nationality" as
anything important personally... any more than we need a marriage
certificate to show that we are in love and want to spend our lives
together. They are just beurocratic bits of paper that open doors. I
am Australian, and will always be so. I love Chile after living here
for two years, and Chile will always be part of me. Both of us want to
experience as much of the world as possible, and that means living and
working there. I have over 3000 photos from my travels though nearly
20 different countries over the last 10 years, but they are nothing
compared to the people I have met, the experiences I have had and the
languages and cultures I have learned. Oh.. and the food
)
Thanks for any input
Matt
Once somebody is awarded permanent residence in Australia, can they
leave Australia for an extended period of time without losing it?
Long version:
I am Australian from British and Australian parents.
My girlfriend is Chilean with Spanish grandparents.
We are currently living in Chile.
We aim to live long term in Australia.
We want to live for a while in Europe.
(Europe: Read Spain, Italy, Holland, Portugal, Ireland, UK.. but in no
particular order).
This gives us two courses of action.
Chile -> Europe -> Australia
Chile -> Australia -> Europe -> Australia
I have access to British Nationality by descent. This is currently
being processed.
She has access to Spanish Nationality after living in Spain for a year
though her spanish grandfather. As far as I can tell there is no
"ancestor visa" equivalent in Spain, so she needs to head there to
study, find a job before arriving or be married to somebody with a
european passport. However we don't want to marry until we have the
money for the wedding of the century, and especially don't want to
rush into marriage only to satisfy visa requirements.
I can bring her back to Australia under the De Facto partner
conditions. We would look at living in Aus for three years or so...
which is about as long as I stay in any job. I think its reasonably
safe to say that there would be a wedding in this period.
We would then look at heading to Europe.
Here's the tricky bit.
Spain has a dual nationality agreement with Chile, but not with
Australia, so she can't hold both. So the question is, does she apply
for Australian nationality while we are still in Aus, or aim for
permanent residency and look at gaining Spanish citizenship for her.
If she gets Australian Permanent residency, what will happen if she
then spends 3-5 years out of the country?
(In anticipation of flames, however unlikely they will be on an
immigration group, neither of us regard the "official nationality" as
anything important personally... any more than we need a marriage
certificate to show that we are in love and want to spend our lives
together. They are just beurocratic bits of paper that open doors. I
am Australian, and will always be so. I love Chile after living here
for two years, and Chile will always be part of me. Both of us want to
experience as much of the world as possible, and that means living and
working there. I have over 3000 photos from my travels though nearly
20 different countries over the last 10 years, but they are nothing
compared to the people I have met, the experiences I have had and the
languages and cultures I have learned. Oh.. and the food
)Thanks for any input
Matt
Aug 1st 2003, 3:23 pm
#2
Forum Regular
Joined: Jul 2003
Posts: 248
Re: Australian Permanent Residence.. expiry?
Schmuck,
I guess it's a difficult and complicated situation. Obviously it's easy for you to come in and out of Australia, as you are a citizen. It would also seem easy for you to obtain British citizenship. The problem would seem to lie in how do you get your girlfriend into all these different countries you want to live/work in?
It seems less of an immigration issue, but more likely an issue of how serious your relationship is. If your end goal is to live out your life with your girlfriend in Australia (which is how I interpreted your post), then maybe it would make sense for you to get married, get her permanent residence, then citizenship. At that point, then you can figure out how to get to Europe together. While it may mean staying 4 years in Australia instead of 3, at least you'll both have a common place to return to.
I guess it's a difficult and complicated situation. Obviously it's easy for you to come in and out of Australia, as you are a citizen. It would also seem easy for you to obtain British citizenship. The problem would seem to lie in how do you get your girlfriend into all these different countries you want to live/work in?
It seems less of an immigration issue, but more likely an issue of how serious your relationship is. If your end goal is to live out your life with your girlfriend in Australia (which is how I interpreted your post), then maybe it would make sense for you to get married, get her permanent residence, then citizenship. At that point, then you can figure out how to get to Europe together. While it may mean staying 4 years in Australia instead of 3, at least you'll both have a common place to return to.
Aug 1st 2003, 9:56 pm
#3
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Australian Permanent Residence.. expiry?
>On 1 Aug 2003 07:22:55 -0700, [email protected] (Schmuck) wrote:
>Short version:
>Once somebody is awarded permanent residence in Australia, can they
>leave Australia for an extended period of time without losing it?
Permanent residence is not valid indefinitely if you stay outside
Australia. After about 3-5 years depending on circumstances there is
a strong risk of losing it if you cannot get a resident return visa.
Secondly, unless you qualify for a long term relationship, your
partner will not get PR at the start, but rather a 30 month temporary
visa.
>Long version:
>I am Australian from British and Australian parents.
>My girlfriend is Chilean with Spanish grandparents.
>I have access to British Nationality by descent. This is currently
>being processed.
Out of interest, do you know if any of your parents or grandparents
were born in Ireland or Northern Ireland? That would give you other
citizenship options.
>She has access to Spanish Nationality after living in Spain for a year
>though her spanish grandfather. As far as I can tell there is no
>"ancestor visa" equivalent in Spain, so she needs to head there to
>study, find a job before arriving or be married to somebody with a
>european passport.
You should get some professional advice in Spain on:
a. would she need a particular type of visa status to apply for
citizenship this way; and
b. would she have to renounce her Australian citizenship (if she had
it at that point), and if so, how. If all she has to do is tell the
Spanish government she's renouncing foreign citizenship, like you do
in the US, that's ok. Australia won't mind. But if she has to bring
a certificate from the Australians saying she has formally renounced
her Australian citizenship under Australian law, then you'll be
snookered.
An alternative option might be to sponsor her for UK permanent
residence at some point. After three years (if you were married) she
could become a naturalised British citizen. This would then mean that
any children subsequently born to you in Australia or elsewhere
outside the UK would be British too (your capacity to pass on your
British citizenship will be limited and you can't naturalise yourself
in the UK once you become British)
>I can bring her back to Australia under the De Facto partner
>conditions. We would look at living in Aus for three years or so...
>which is about as long as I stay in any job. I think its reasonably
>safe to say that there would be a wedding in this period.
Do you plan to have children? You may want to be thinking about what
country they should be born in depending on what citizenships you want
them to have.
If your partner gets a temporary visa, then time on this visa does not
count for Australian citizenship (or an RRV) so you're looking at
about 4-5 years in Australia if you want her to become a citizen.
>We would then look at heading to Europe.
>Here's the tricky bit.
>Spain has a dual nationality agreement with Chile, but not with
>Australia, so she can't hold both. So the question is, does she apply
>for Australian nationality while we are still in Aus, or aim for
>permanent residency and look at gaining Spanish citizenship for her.
Get professional advice in Spain on this subject, but if she becomes
Spanish first, won't she then lose that status when she becomes an
Australian citizen?
>If she gets Australian Permanent residency, what will happen if she
>then spends 3-5 years out of the country?
Firstly she may only be a temporary resident for the first 2 years or
so. Once she gets PR the rules are explained at:
http://www.immi.gov.au/allforms/ostravel.htm
http://www.immi.gov.au/allforms/pdf/968i.pdf
Once the standard 2 year residence requirement is not met, getting an
RRV can be tricky. The 'substantial ties' argument is often rejected
by DIMIA - you should be getting professional advice on this.
>(In anticipation of flames, however unlikely they will be on an
>immigration group, neither of us regard the "official nationality" as
>anything important personally... any more than we need a marriage
>certificate to show that we are in love and want to spend our lives
>together. They are just beurocratic bits of paper that open doors. I
>am Australian, and will always be so. I love Chile after living here
>for two years, and Chile will always be part of me.
Does your wife mind losing her Chilean citizenship? It will also most
likely mean her future children don't have Chilean citizenship either.
Jeremy
This is not intended to be legal advice in any jurisdiction
>Short version:
>Once somebody is awarded permanent residence in Australia, can they
>leave Australia for an extended period of time without losing it?
Permanent residence is not valid indefinitely if you stay outside
Australia. After about 3-5 years depending on circumstances there is
a strong risk of losing it if you cannot get a resident return visa.
Secondly, unless you qualify for a long term relationship, your
partner will not get PR at the start, but rather a 30 month temporary
visa.
>Long version:
>I am Australian from British and Australian parents.
>My girlfriend is Chilean with Spanish grandparents.
>I have access to British Nationality by descent. This is currently
>being processed.
Out of interest, do you know if any of your parents or grandparents
were born in Ireland or Northern Ireland? That would give you other
citizenship options.
>She has access to Spanish Nationality after living in Spain for a year
>though her spanish grandfather. As far as I can tell there is no
>"ancestor visa" equivalent in Spain, so she needs to head there to
>study, find a job before arriving or be married to somebody with a
>european passport.
You should get some professional advice in Spain on:
a. would she need a particular type of visa status to apply for
citizenship this way; and
b. would she have to renounce her Australian citizenship (if she had
it at that point), and if so, how. If all she has to do is tell the
Spanish government she's renouncing foreign citizenship, like you do
in the US, that's ok. Australia won't mind. But if she has to bring
a certificate from the Australians saying she has formally renounced
her Australian citizenship under Australian law, then you'll be
snookered.
An alternative option might be to sponsor her for UK permanent
residence at some point. After three years (if you were married) she
could become a naturalised British citizen. This would then mean that
any children subsequently born to you in Australia or elsewhere
outside the UK would be British too (your capacity to pass on your
British citizenship will be limited and you can't naturalise yourself
in the UK once you become British)
>I can bring her back to Australia under the De Facto partner
>conditions. We would look at living in Aus for three years or so...
>which is about as long as I stay in any job. I think its reasonably
>safe to say that there would be a wedding in this period.
Do you plan to have children? You may want to be thinking about what
country they should be born in depending on what citizenships you want
them to have.
If your partner gets a temporary visa, then time on this visa does not
count for Australian citizenship (or an RRV) so you're looking at
about 4-5 years in Australia if you want her to become a citizen.
>We would then look at heading to Europe.
>Here's the tricky bit.
>Spain has a dual nationality agreement with Chile, but not with
>Australia, so she can't hold both. So the question is, does she apply
>for Australian nationality while we are still in Aus, or aim for
>permanent residency and look at gaining Spanish citizenship for her.
Get professional advice in Spain on this subject, but if she becomes
Spanish first, won't she then lose that status when she becomes an
Australian citizen?
>If she gets Australian Permanent residency, what will happen if she
>then spends 3-5 years out of the country?
Firstly she may only be a temporary resident for the first 2 years or
so. Once she gets PR the rules are explained at:
http://www.immi.gov.au/allforms/ostravel.htm
http://www.immi.gov.au/allforms/pdf/968i.pdf
Once the standard 2 year residence requirement is not met, getting an
RRV can be tricky. The 'substantial ties' argument is often rejected
by DIMIA - you should be getting professional advice on this.
>(In anticipation of flames, however unlikely they will be on an
>immigration group, neither of us regard the "official nationality" as
>anything important personally... any more than we need a marriage
>certificate to show that we are in love and want to spend our lives
>together. They are just beurocratic bits of paper that open doors. I
>am Australian, and will always be so. I love Chile after living here
>for two years, and Chile will always be part of me.
Does your wife mind losing her Chilean citizenship? It will also most
likely mean her future children don't have Chilean citizenship either.
Jeremy
This is not intended to be legal advice in any jurisdiction
