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The Hungarian EOI quandary. your thoughts and views please.

The Hungarian EOI quandary. your thoughts and views please.

Old Aug 9th 2007, 10:21 pm
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Default The Hungarian EOI quandary. your thoughts and views please.

Following on from my post about the PAR result, I now find myself in a quandary over what to do for the best. I'd be very interested to read anyones views or thoughts. Several heads are better than one

It's so important for this family as they are already here and are now at subsistance level.

My Hungarian is working as a plumber, under a limited licence, here in NZ and has been here on work permits for 2 1/2 years. Plumbing skills are on the long-term shortage list. A new 6 month work permit was issued with the present employer filling out the supplementary form to prove that there is no NZ resident available for the work. They have apprentices so that covers them extra.

I was wanting the NZQA level to strengthen their case for PR beyond doubt. Hungary is not a country seen as comparable, from what I have read, despite now being in the European COmmunity.

His possible points:-

25 points for age
60 points for skilled employment in NZ for more than 12 months
10 points job is outside Auckland
10 points long term shortage list **
30 points work experience of over ten years
05 points work experience in nz of two years
10 points nz work experience in the long term shortage list of two years **
50 points for a NZQA level 3 basic trade skill. [ the PAR failed to return any level]

Now I know that all of the above points may not have been accepted.
For instance , the 20 bonus points ** would be knocked off if the NZQA level had come back at level 3 for a basic trade skill but then there would have been 50 to counterbalance that.

I don't think I can claim the long term absolute shortage points as I now have no recognised level for his trade qualifications. Not even a level 3.:curse:

This brings down the possible points to 130 which means no automatic selection from the pool. However, it is still 130.

Perhaps to be safe it should be a full NZQA assessment. I hesitate at this . The fee is a stonking $450 bucks . This is a huge sum of money for this family . Most of his weeks wages in fact. Remember , they are still on work permits and receive no financial assistance. Further, I feel wary of the NZQA full assessment procedure after what happened with the PAR. The hungarian quals should have been straighforward.
How long would a full assessment take ? This family have work permits until December 7th. They were wanting to avoid the additional cost of meds at that time.

Would NZIS even recognise his job as skilled without points for a trade qual ? The employer has already proven an Approval in Principle. So the job itself is OK.

This family have so little money. I quietly paid for this PAR . With any residual bits of money , I was having them improve their standard of English language in case NZIS require an IELTS certificate . It's one thing to read/write in everyday NZ life. It's quite another to do an IELTS test .

Any thoughts gratefully received. I think my brain is going to boil trying to churn it all around for the best outcome.
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Old Aug 10th 2007, 12:48 am
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Default Re: The Hungarian EOI quandary. your thoughts and views please.

Although we're here having come over on WTR visa and now have PR I really still don't understand the system that well, which is why we used a consultant!

But I just wanted to say that we only had 100 points. My OH has an NVQ Level 4 which wasn't recognised but we didn't need to have that assessed by NZQA. He had a good offer from an accredited company and we applied for WTR under the Talent visa. Our EOI was submitted just as we got here under skilled migrant. OH's job was permanent not temporary or timed contract (don't know if that makes a difference). We were selected from the pool within a couple of hours and received our ITA about 6 weeks later, put together the last bits and submitted a few days later and got PR within a week.

If this chap has 135 points and is already here and working, why would his qualifications need to be assessed as ours didn't? Does he own a property here? or doesn't that make a difference anyway?

Sorry! I'm not much help at all really, I just don't see why he would need to pay out for an assessment.
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Old Aug 10th 2007, 12:58 am
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Default Re: The Hungarian EOI quandary. your thoughts and views please.

Actually, you are a help. Maybe I am being over cautious because I know the difficulties they have faced in the past and how little money they now have.

Nope . They don't own their own house.

I believe his job is skilled and therefore worth skilled points. I was looking to match his qualification with the job using the NZQA PAR process as proof.

However, you gained 50 points for a skilled job without matching to your skilled quals.

Makes me feel more positive .
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Old Aug 10th 2007, 12:59 am
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Default Re: The Hungarian EOI quandary. your thoughts and views please.

gawd BEV you don't like making life easy do you!!

I would take a gamble on the points been enough already TBH.

If they can ill afford the application anyway, the pressure they would be under for they quals to be recognised will be massive on this family and if they are NOT recognised they will have to try with the points they have now

The fact they have 130 points, already are working in NZ and have been for over 2 years, I wouldn't expect them to languish in the pool by any means

Good Luck BEV
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Old Aug 13th 2007, 6:56 pm
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Default Re: The Hungarian EOI quandary. your thoughts and views please.

Originally Posted by BEVS here View Post
I believe his job is skilled and therefore worth skilled points. I was looking to match his qualification with the job using the NZQA PAR process as proof.
Just a thought -- I know nothing about NZ immigration but I do know about Eastern European education. In all probability your friend went to a "trade school" from the age of 14 to 18 or 19 where he studied general education and a trade such as plumbing together. His "matriculation" certificate from this trade school should be quite detailed showing which trades he learned and to what level. Of course, it'll need translation. Might be some useful background for you...
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Old Aug 13th 2007, 7:11 pm
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Default Re: The Hungarian EOI quandary. your thoughts and views please.

Originally Posted by BEVS here View Post
This family have so little money. I quietly paid for this PAR . With any residual bits of money , I was having them improve their standard of English language in case NZIS require an IELTS certificate . It's one thing to read/write in everyday NZ life. It's quite another to do an IELTS test .
Hi Bevs,
There is a waiver that can be asked for as far as the IELTS requirement goes. If it can be shown that the applicant has been working in an English speaking environment for over a year the requirement to take the IELTS or (heaven forbid) pony up NZ$6,000 in prepaid English tuition is waived.
My wife, who is Thai, wouldn't have a snowball's chance in hell of getting an acceptable band score on the IELTS. However, she had over three years New Zealand work experience thus qualifying for the English language waiver. It helped that her employer wrote a nice letter detailing what language requirements are needed for her occupation and how well she copes in the language of the work place.
I'm sorry I can't recall which section the waiver is found under, but it's there somewhere.
Good luck and big karma to you for helping this family.
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Old Aug 14th 2007, 1:23 am
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Default Re: The Hungarian EOI quandary. your thoughts and views please.

Originally Posted by fatbrit View Post
Just a thought -- I know nothing about NZ immigration but I do know about Eastern European education. In all probability your friend went to a "trade school" from the age of 14 to 18 or 19 where he studied general education and a trade such as plumbing together. His "matriculation" certificate from this trade school should be quite detailed showing which trades he learned and to what level. Of course, it'll need translation. Might be some useful background for you...
Thanks heavens for this BE site and all the people that will take the time to share and help.
Seeing your post about the eastern block qualifications is a boost and a relief .

I had been attempting to do some extra investigations to make sure I understood the Hungarian qualification system. So good to have it verified by someone . Can't thank you enough Fatbrit.

My Hungarian did go to a trade school for three years and we have turned up the entire study book that went with this period. We did this just last night . I have the Hungarian qualified plumber certificate and now have an approved English translation.
Quite why NZQA couldn't verify via a PAR is probably a money spinning mystery.
I'm sure if we coughed up for a full assessment it would come in at a level 3 or 4 - sweet as....

Because of the sparse finances available and the NZIS points system I have decided not to submit points for his trade skill . The EOI requires an NZQA PAR level which we do not have or evidence of other assessment which I cannot, at this stage, provide. A PGDB assessment costs $400.

If they are offered an Invitation to Apply for Permanent Residency by NZIS, I will submit certified and translated copies of the Hungarian trade qualifications to underpin his trade skills. It might be that NZIS will still requires a full assessment via either NZQA or PGDB but at least then we will be a good step closer to a possible PR.

The translations should provide proof they are authentic but if NZIS need further proof the certs. are genuine, I have decided to contact the NZ Hungarian consul to help with this.

Karma Fatbrit . You're a star.
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Old Aug 14th 2007, 1:44 am
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Default Re: The Hungarian EOI quandary. your thoughts and views please.

Originally Posted by happynz View Post
Hi Bevs,
There is a waiver that can be asked for as far as the IELTS requirement goes. If it can be shown that the applicant has been working in an English speaking environment for over a year the requirement to take the IELTS or (heaven forbid) pony up NZ$6,000 in prepaid English tuition is waived.
My wife, who is Thai, wouldn't have a snowball's chance in hell of getting an acceptable band score on the IELTS. However, she had over three years New Zealand work experience thus qualifying for the English language waiver. It helped that her employer wrote a nice letter detailing what language requirements are needed for her occupation and how well she copes in the language of the work place.
I'm sorry I can't recall which section the waiver is found under, but it's there somewhere.
Good luck and big karma to you for helping this family.
You know, I think I love you. in a cyber buddy sorta way

This is the hurdle that has caused me the mostest worry for this family. Neither wife nor husband would stand a cat in hells chance of scoring a band 5 or 6.5 in an IELTS test. For that matter neither would my dyslexic husband. That's not to mention the money these tests cost. Further ,their current work permit , which we have just fixed, would have expired before the next set of IELTS test were available anyway.
A loan for the $6500, no matter which way I played it [ via a bank or a loan from the NZ employer] would have stretched the family finances way too tight .

Last night , after spending the evening with tMr and Mrs Hungarian going through the EOI requirements , I talked their options over with my husband and decided that I would wing it with regard to the English language standard for Mrs. Hungarian friend. We simply cannot wait any longer.

Mrs Hungarian has lived in NZ for over two years. She is working full time, albeit not at skilled employment, and has been for two years+. Recently she has become a supervisor. The employer is willing to be helpful with a reference letter. Also, she has to run her home , family finanaces, have some interaction with her kids school.
I was intending to simply plead her case if an ITA was issued.

I didn't know their was a waiver HappyNZ. Thank goodness. < big sigh of relief smilie> I'll try and find it.
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Old Aug 14th 2007, 1:46 am
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Default Re: The Hungarian EOI quandary. your thoughts and views please.

Nearly forgot -

After last evenings discussions and reading the posts from Fatbrit and HappyNZ, I have submitted the EOI for Mr and Mrs Hungarian today.
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Old Aug 14th 2007, 2:11 am
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Default Re: The Hungarian EOI quandary. your thoughts and views please.

Hi Bevs,

From the NZIS website...



Requirements for principal applicants

As a principal applicant you must provide:



* a recent International English Language Testing System (IELTS) certificate where you gained an overall band score of 5 or over in the IELTS General or Academic Module. The certificate must be less than two years old. (If you were granted a Long Term Business Visa before 20 November 2002 and you’re now applying for residence under our Entrepreneur category, you need a minimum band score of 4 in each of the four components of the IELTS General or Academic Module)
or
* evidence that you have an English speaking background

or
* evidence that you’ve been employed in New Zealand for at least 12 months in a position that’s required you to speak English. We’ll need to a written reference on company letterhead from your employer providing their contact details and details of your employment with them. If you’re still employed, you can instead show us your current employment contract

or
* you can show us through other means that you are a competent user of English. The factors we will consider may include:
o your current country of residence
o countries you may have lived in before
how long you were in each country
o whether you speak any languages other than English
o your family’s ability to speak English
o whether your family members speak any languages other than English
o your previous or current work and the level of English language skills required
o your qualifications and the level of English language skills they required.


http://www.immigration.govt.nz/migra...shlanguage.htm
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Old Aug 14th 2007, 4:34 am
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Default Re: The Hungarian EOI quandary. your thoughts and views please.

Originally Posted by BEVS here View Post
If they are offered an Invitation to Apply for Permanent Residency by NZIS, I will submit certified and translated copies of the Hungarian trade qualifications to underpin his trade skills.
There are 3 stages to legalizing the matriculation certificate for use abroad:

1/ A Hungarian notary attests it is a true copy of his matriculation certificate.
2/ A Hungarian court-appointed translator provides a true translation
3/ The Hungarian foreign ministry "apostilles" the document attesting to the legal status of both the notary and the court-appointed translator (1961 Hague Convention). AFAIK, both Hungary and New Zealand are signatories to the Convention.

The Hungarian embassy should be able to provide all these three steps, though undoubtedly it will be cheaper to get it done at home if they still have family or friends there.
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Old Aug 15th 2007, 1:49 am
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Default Re: The Hungarian EOI quandary. your thoughts and views please.

Thanks again Fatbrit. So very flippin' helpful .




EOI -------------- selected !
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Old Aug 15th 2007, 2:10 am
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Default Re: The Hungarian EOI quandary. your thoughts and views please.

Originally Posted by BEVS here View Post
Thanks again Fatbrit. So very flippin' helpful .




EOI -------------- selected !


That was a bit bl**dy quick !!!!!!
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Old Aug 15th 2007, 2:28 am
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Default Re: The Hungarian EOI quandary. your thoughts and views please.

Originally Posted by BEVS here View Post

EOI -------------- selected !
Cool! However, it ain't over until those blue beauties are stuck in the passports. Good start, though.

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Old Aug 15th 2007, 6:03 am
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Default Re: The Hungarian EOI quandary. your thoughts and views please.

Originally Posted by happynz View Post
it ain't over until those blue beauties are stuck in the passports.

True

I'm expecting a few points to get knocked off & just hoping it'll hold up enough to get through the preliminary checks.
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