Help needed for a friend please

Old Jan 6th 2008, 9:53 pm
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Default Help needed for a friend please

My friend in the UK has been thinking about moving to NZ for a while now, since we've been gone really. Anyhow she has a bit of a complicated story

She's 25 and has a daughter of 5, she is with her fella who is not daughters dad and he's 23/24 (I can't remember lol) for 3 years, has his own tattoo business and has done for over a year. They don't have any 'Skilled' experience other than his tattooing and she has a Bar Management NVQ. Now, daughters dad is a bit of a freak who is mentally ill and has no parental responsibility and has just had his access to daughter revoked for shooting himself in the foot in court ... told judge that he takes drugs and enjoys it and can't understand why they have an issue with this, has told them he hasn't taken his medication for a year and doesn't plan to again, and only wants to get back at my friend for leaving him after an abusive (mental and physical) few years relationship. He has no interest in his daughter and only fights in court so he gets to see my friend (who has an injunction against him cause he sits watching her constantly and threatens her) squirm in her seat frightened for her safety. She has just asked for a CAFCASS officer to step-in last week.

Anyway, she really wants to emigrate but we can't work out how she will do this. My suggestion was to go and get some qualifications now whilst she fights through courts to be able to take her daughter out of the country. Kill two birds with one stone sort of thing. She on the other hand wants to come over asap! Understandably wants to get away from the psycho yesterday

Any help would be gratefully received and passed on to her.

Michelle x

Last edited by UKNZAUS; Jan 6th 2008 at 10:00 pm. Reason: Got his age wrong!
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Old Jan 6th 2008, 10:33 pm
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Default Re: Help needed for a friend please

I am not sure what the rules are regarding student visa's and dependant kids (I think there is some provision, but the NZIS site is down at the moment), but if she could work it, she could study here for a quailifcation and her partner could apply for a 23 month WHV (working holiday visa).

That would at least get them a "foot in". If she gets quailifcations, then she can get a job, if she gets a "skilled job", then she can apply for PR (we talking 2-3 years down the line now), their age would be a plus (heaps of points!).

So, family issues aside, it might be possible.
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Old Jan 6th 2008, 10:36 pm
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Default Re: Help needed for a friend please

Blimey, sorry can offer no advice but hope she can get out of her present situation!

Not sure emigrating would be the solution but each to their own.

No malice intended or meant there, but I was in an abusive situation albiet no kids involved but I think she should try to settle after all the turmoil and then reevaluate the situation.

Wish her all the best from me, though please!
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Old Jan 6th 2008, 10:56 pm
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Default Re: Help needed for a friend please

I thought the required document, ie letter from absent parent confirming their consent to removal of the child/ren from the jurisdiction signed by Notary Public, was only required if the absent parent actually has parental responsibility for the child/ren in question. When we did ours last May NZIS rules were that this was to be under the laws of the country in which the child presently resides. Under UK law a dad has parental responsibility if married to the childs mother at the time of birth, etc, but as you state in your friends case as she has sole parental responsibility that is all she needs to state in a letter to NZIS when she applies for a visa. A solicitor's advice may be advisable though as it sounds a complicated situation she's in. Or maybe CAFCAS can advise; their sole purpose is the welfare of the child involved not the parents though.

Skilled or not, is it not possible for them to just come out and get jobs once here and just keep applying for work visas year after year? I know this is not ideal but the emigration consultant we used had said that he knows of people who have done just this for the past 9 years. I know this restricts getting loans, mortgages, etc, but it is not an impossible situation and whilst here at least they can work, settle, and maybe do part-time / evening courses to gain the quals they need to eventually apply for PR - maybe even an apprenticeship type thing where the employer here would help out with, if not pay for, the course fees.
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Old Jan 7th 2008, 12:14 am
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Default Re: Help needed for a friend please

Hi,
difficult as it is NZIS will not grant visas without in the very least a statutory declaration of custody...a document signed by both parents in front of a solicitor or notary stating permission given to the mother to take the child out of the country (quick easy cheap only costs 5.00 route). Alternatively it will be a court battle. It is a requirement in order to be granted any visa for a child without it they won't get one.

If they can get that done...tell them to just come over and get hooked up with jobs over here. Reality is though if the father is not willing to sign that document and they cannot get any documentation through the courts they will not be able to get a visa for the child.

Good luck to them.
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Old Jan 7th 2008, 3:26 am
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Default Re: Help needed for a friend please

your friend could come over for 6 months without anything and then find a job over here then apply for a work permit
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Old Jan 7th 2008, 8:19 am
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Default Re: Help needed for a friend please

Originally Posted by phil01 View Post
Hi,
difficult as it is NZIS will not grant visas without in the very least a statutory declaration of custody...a document signed by both parents in front of a solicitor or notary stating permission given to the mother to take the child out of the country (quick easy cheap only costs 5.00 route). Alternatively it will be a court battle. It is a requirement in order to be granted any visa for a child without it they won't get one.

If they can get that done...tell them to just come over and get hooked up with jobs over here. Reality is though if the father is not willing to sign that document and they cannot get any documentation through the courts they will not be able to get a visa for the child.

Good luck to them.
No you don't need both parents to sign. I didn't sign the declaration letter from my ex-husband. It wasn't even on headed paper! It was a simple declaration stating his full name, the full names of the kids and dob's, and that fact that he had no objection to them being removed from the jurisdiction. It was signed by him and his solicitor, who happens to be a Notary Public. No queries or questions from NZIS over this at all.

And under UK Law you only need permission if the absent parent has parental responsibility. The OP stated her friend's ex-husband does not have this, therefore, as advised by solicitors when I enquired May last year, all that is required is a letter from the mother stating that she has sole responsibility and this can be signed/witnessed by a Notary Public. It is not the law of the country you are emigrating to that comes into play, it is the law of the country you are hoping to emigrate from.
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Old Jan 7th 2008, 8:30 am
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Default Re: Help needed for a friend please

Originally Posted by TeamEmbo View Post
No you don't need both parents to sign. I didn't sign the declaration letter from my ex-husband. It wasn't even on headed paper! It was a simple declaration stating his full name, the full names of the kids and dob's, and that fact that he had no objection to them being removed from the jurisdiction. It was signed by him and his solicitor, who happens to be a Notary Public. No queries or questions from NZIS over this at all.

And under UK Law you only need permission if the absent parent has parental responsibility. The OP stated her friend's ex-husband does not have this, therefore, as advised by solicitors when I enquired May last year, all that is required is a letter from the mother stating that she has sole responsibility and this can be signed/witnessed by a Notary Public. It is not the law of the country you are emigrating to that comes into play, it is the law of the country you are hoping to emigrate from.
Very interesting info, im going to have to do the same thing. Would you know if the father needs to sign the letter at the solicitors, witnessed etc? Ta.
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Old Jan 7th 2008, 9:00 am
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Default Re: Help needed for a friend please

(It was a simple declaration stating his full name, the full names of the kids and dob's, and that fact that he had no objection to them being removed from the jurisdiction. It was signed by him and his solicitor, who happens to be a Notary Public)

That is a statutory declaration!

It is a declaration made by the parent as named on the birth certificate stating that he/she has no objection to the child leaving the country and without it NZIS won't process the visa application.

I think you will find if you check out NZIS website that they will require some form of evidence that the father has no legal parental rights or a stat dec...they won't process it without some paperwork in place...common sense to avoid kidnapping.
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Old Jan 7th 2008, 11:02 am
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Default Re: Help needed for a friend please

Originally Posted by TeamEmbo View Post
And under UK Law you only need permission if the absent parent has parental responsibility.
That's my understanding too, although I have no first hand experience in this area.

So as you have said, it looks fairly 'straightforward' (given the situation). I would advise the same 'come on over on a temporary visa' route as others have suggested.

Good luck. What a horrible situation to be in. Age massively on her side though!
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Old Jan 7th 2008, 11:08 am
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Default Re: Help needed for a friend please

[QUOTE=phil01;5751228
I think you will find if you check out NZIS website that they will require some form of evidence that the father has no legal parental rights or a stat dec...they won't process it without some paperwork in place...common sense to avoid kidnapping.[/QUOTE]


Presumably she could have this already if they have agreed custody through official/legal routes if it states the mother as the sole carer?

Do you know whether marriage has any bearing on this or not? Suspect not since it isn't a prerequisite to becoming a parent.

A very good friend of mine has just taken advise in this area (UK) and has been told from several sources that the power tips in favour of the mother, most of the time. She find it quite unbelievable that even though she has joint custody of her children with her ex-husband (amicably agreed together), she would have no issue in taking them overseas to live (she's French) if she wanted to do so. There would have to be extremely good reason for a court not to rule in her favour (apparantly), even though her ex-husband would be extremely distressed (understatement) if this happened. It's so sad when relationships break down.

Last edited by uk+kiwi; Jan 7th 2008 at 11:14 am.
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Old Jan 7th 2008, 11:28 am
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Default Re: Help needed for a friend please

Originally Posted by chasandange View Post
your friend could come over for 6 months without anything and then find a job over here then apply for a work permit
Sounds familiar
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Old Jan 7th 2008, 5:47 pm
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Default Re: Help needed for a friend please

Thanks for the info guys I'll pass it on when I next see her online.

There is another spanner in the works now though - she just found out she's pregnant! So, I don't know what or if she's going to proceed with this now.
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Old Jan 11th 2008, 8:38 am
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Default Re: Help needed for a friend please

Originally Posted by phil01 View Post
(It was a simple declaration stating his full name, the full names of the kids and dob's, and that fact that he had no objection to them being removed from the jurisdiction. It was signed by him and his solicitor, who happens to be a Notary Public)

That is a statutory declaration!

It is a declaration made by the parent as named on the birth certificate stating that he/she has no objection to the child leaving the country and without it NZIS won't process the visa application.

I think you will find if you check out NZIS website that they will require some form of evidence that the father has no legal parental rights or a stat dec...they won't process it without some paperwork in place...common sense to avoid kidnapping.

Sorry Phil, I meant 'simple' as in straight forward/uncomplicated. And I did state in my post that a letter to NZIS would be required when applying to state that the mum had sole parental responsibility; ie. my name is .... and I can confirm that I have sole parental responsibility for .... (names, dob's of children) and then either something like, I was not married to the children's father at the time of their birth so under UK Law he has no legal parental responsibility or I was married at the time of their birth but the court has ruled custody in my favour blah blah blah and attach relevant papers.

Other people I've heard of have done just this with no probs at all.

Wessa, sorry I can only presume what happen when my ex-husband signed the letter, presumably as is standard he signed in front of his solicitor and his solicitor signed and added seal, although please note his solicitor was also a Notary Public which is what was required.

It really is fairly straight forward unless the removal from jurisdiction is contested, in which case the precedent of Payne v Payne would come into play. Basically, as the parent removing the children you would have to prove that your intentions are reasonable, responsible and genuine and not just an attempt to deny the absent parent access. The courts one and only consideration is the welfare of the children. The court will take into consideration the objections from the absent parent, ie what current contact arrangements are in place, if breaking these would be of detriment to the children. If the children are deemed of an age of understanding (and this can apply to 5 and 6 year olds) the court may (probably will) ask CAFCAS to interview the child to see what their views/wishes are. Sometimes the court will rule in favour of the removal but may wish to ask both parties to submit ongoing contact arrangements before giving final ruling, ie. the children be allowed to return for a set period for holiday each year with the absent parent and who will be paying the cost of this. All this goes into the final ruling (court order).
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