140 points reduced to 40

Old Sep 10th 2011, 4:49 am
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Default 140 points reduced to 40

Very long story short, son age 24 and from UK came here on WHV.
Found permanent employment, did various training and courses for his job, got promoted twice, now a shift supervisor.

Tried points calculator on INZ website, scored 140 points, applied for SM visa in December 2010.
ITA arrived in January 2011, completed and returned in May 2011.
Extra info requested and sent.

Interim visa issued as WHV expired in July2011, and SM visa application still in progress. Couldn't work on interim visa so applied for work visa to cover him while SM visa assessed.

Still with me?!

6 month work visa issued, Only granted because there was a SM visa application in progress. Have been told in writing this work visa will not be renewed. Interim visa cancelled.

September 2011, SM visa declined as this job offer is not seen as skilled.

Original points down from 140 to........wait for this.....40
Thats 30 for age and 10 for close family.

The family is absolutely devastated, whole family are resident here and obviously he wants to remain with them in NZ. He has no-one/nothing in the UK, no family, home or job.

Any suggestions as to what the next steps are?
All help gratefully received.

Last edited by RobDon; Sep 10th 2011 at 4:52 am.
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Old Sep 10th 2011, 5:31 am
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Default Re: 140 points reduced to 40

Can you state the breakdown of the original 140 points please. Also which skilled occupation & what qualifications.

He may be able to apply for a bit of a visitors visa once the temp work permit expires. Not at all sure if this is possible though.


As you will be aware you would be able to sponsor him in a year's time however places are limited and the timeline booted by NZIS is a further 18/24 months from application.
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Old Sep 11th 2011, 12:44 am
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Default Re: 140 points reduced to 40

Originally Posted by BEVS View Post
Can you state the breakdown of the original 140 points please. Also which skilled occupation & what qualifications.

He may be able to apply for a bit of a visitors visa once the temp work permit expires. Not at all sure if this is possible though.


As you will be aware you would be able to sponsor him in a year's time however places are limited and the timeline booted by NZIS is a further 18/24 months from application.

Hi Bevs,

Points were:
Age 30
Skilled Employment 60
Bonus points outside Auckland 10
Basic recognised qualification gained in New Zealand 5
Recognised work experience 20
Bonus for work experience in New Zealand 5
Close family support 10

National Certificate in Hospitality, Food & Beverage Service Level 2
Awarded by the Hospitality Standards Institute of NZ
Certificate for completing Shift Supervisors Course through McDonalds
Crew Trainer Certificate through McDonalds

He applied under Hospitality, Retail and Service Managers nec (149999)
The problem is, his job description has been classified by ANZSCO as Retail Supervisor, but his actual job role covers much more.
He could have applied under Fast Food Cook (851111) Food Trades Assistants nec (851299) Hospitality Workers nec (431999)

Bottom line is, this role is not seen as skilled even though he has trained for it and had to pass exams and courses for it.
Therefore other points appear to be automatically deducted.
Joe Public on the street could not do his job without thorough training.
Just don't know what to do next.

Last edited by RobDon; Sep 11th 2011 at 12:51 am.
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Old Sep 11th 2011, 5:57 am
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Default Re: 140 points reduced to 40

Someone we know emloyed the services of an immigration lawyer, and with written statements from the employer, contacted the supervisor responsible for her case officer.
Said supervisor admitted a lack of awareness of the situation, especially regarding local business recruitment problems, and working visa was reassessed and granted.
It was all very tense, and yes, money had to be handed to the lawyer, but he knew what to do, we didn't.
Best of luck.
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Old Sep 11th 2011, 7:02 am
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Default Re: 140 points reduced to 40

Oh, no! I can hardly believe it! He works so hard & is so much a part of your family. It seems like there really should be some way around this, although I have to admit I don't know enough of the immigration ins & ous to advise. Seems like an immigration lawyer might end up being the best way through. Fingers crossed for you.
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Old Sep 12th 2011, 5:09 am
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Default Re: 140 points reduced to 40

He applied under Hospitality, Retail and Service Managers nec (149999)
which is seen as skilled

The problem is, his job description has been classified by ANZSCO as Retail Supervisor, but his actual job role covers much more.
which isn't seen as skilled. Neither are Fast Food Cook (851111) Food Trades Assistants nec (851299) Hospitality Workers nec (431999) on the list of occupations seen as skilled by NZIS.

Then he/you/the employer needs to start gathering evidence and statements to prove he is a manager - not a supervisor. That would include a written statement from the employer . His pay scale reflecting managerial level etc.

Can he get an employers written statement of exactly what he does and his responsibilities?

I agree with Haze and Steve , this is one case where the services of a quality Immy Agent would come in handy. Have them talk direct with the branch supervisor ..... or should that be manager.

It'll be tough to crack I feel but it has happened before

Chap here came as a road works manager and supervisor. Engaged the now infamous Golden Sands agent who fixed up a job but it was a lesser type of job with lesser pay. The idea was he would do his bit of NZ training etc and then move up a rung.
Thing was, his application got thrown out because his job description didn't match that of a manager or supervisor for that matter.
New agent who presented the case for this man plus a bit of heavy handed proactive input from the NZ employer got his application through.

If you have the employer on board, he is in with a chance but I would suggest an agent for this.
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Old Sep 15th 2011, 5:43 am
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Default Re: 140 points reduced to 40

This seems highly implausible. It's difficult to buy this at all actually. How can the points just reduce to 40 or so. Perhaps you means points reduced BY 40 THAN TO 40. You get points for age, qualification and these alone will get to around 80. However, in the other case that I expressed, this may be possible.

Originally Posted by RobDon View Post
Very long story short, son age 24 and from UK came here on WHV.
Found permanent employment, did various training and courses for his job, got promoted twice, now a shift supervisor.

Tried points calculator on INZ website, scored 140 points, applied for SM visa in December 2010.
ITA arrived in January 2011, completed and returned in May 2011.
Extra info requested and sent.

Interim visa issued as WHV expired in July2011, and SM visa application still in progress. Couldn't work on interim visa so applied for work visa to cover him while SM visa assessed.

Still with me?!

6 month work visa issued, Only granted because there was a SM visa application in progress. Have been told in writing this work visa will not be renewed. Interim visa cancelled.

September 2011, SM visa declined as this job offer is not seen as skilled.

Original points down from 140 to........wait for this.....40
Thats 30 for age and 10 for close family.

The family is absolutely devastated, whole family are resident here and obviously he wants to remain with them in NZ. He has no-one/nothing in the UK, no family, home or job.

Any suggestions as to what the next steps are?
All help gratefully received.
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Old Sep 15th 2011, 9:55 am
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Default Re: 140 points reduced to 40

Originally Posted by robbyarg View Post
This seems highly implausible. It's difficult to buy this at all actually. How can the points just reduce to 40 or so. Perhaps you means points reduced BY 40 THAN TO 40. You get points for age, qualification and these alone will get to around 80. However, in the other case that I expressed, this may be possible.
please read the above quotes and you will see what has happened
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Old Sep 15th 2011, 9:58 am
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Default Re: 140 points reduced to 40

Robdon,
So sorry to hear this especially after hearing that Jack was finally coming over and you'd all be together again.
I have no advice that I can add, just hoping you find yourself a bloody good agent who fights tooth and nail and gets him his PR
Lots of luck
P x
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Old Sep 15th 2011, 10:50 am
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Default Re: 140 points reduced to 40

Originally Posted by robbyarg View Post
This seems highly implausible. It's difficult to buy this at all actually......
As often said, at times of lack of tact/compassion......."ever considered a career in the diplomatic corps?"
Or, as Nana phrased it, if you can't say anything useful, then say nowt!
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Old Sep 16th 2011, 5:24 am
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Default Re: 140 points reduced to 40

Originally Posted by robbyarg View Post
This seems highly implausible. It's difficult to buy this at all actually. How can the points just reduce to 40 or so. Perhaps you means points reduced BY 40 THAN TO 40. You get points for age, qualification and these alone will get to around 80. However, in the other case that I expressed, this may be possible.
Oh dear me. Pretty shoddy answer all round. The OP has explained what has happened clearly. It is your understanding that is at fault here.

My suggestion to others & Robdon is to just pass on by Robbyarg's post.
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Old Sep 16th 2011, 5:36 am
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Default Re: 140 points reduced to 40

Originally Posted by BEVS View Post
Oh dear me. Pretty shoddy answer all round. The OP has explained what has happened clearly. It is your understanding that is at fault here.

My suggestion to others & Robdon is to just pass on by Robbyarg's post.
Thanks Bevs & Persephone. Already have done Bevs!

Last edited by RobDon; Sep 16th 2011 at 5:41 am.
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Old Dec 11th 2011, 10:48 pm
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Default Re: 140 points reduced to 40

Just a quick update, have got an immigration lawyer involved and he has submitted an appeal against the decision.
for that, although we have been advised it can take at least a year before we hear anything.
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Old Dec 12th 2011, 2:54 am
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Default Re: 140 points reduced to 40

Yup for you and your son.

I wonder if you could offer some enlightenment on this thread please. Same sort of scenario. WHV but wants to stay.
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Old Apr 25th 2012, 10:24 am
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Default Re: 140 points reduced to 40

Yet another update...................Immigration lawyer still being employed. Appeal against declined residency still ongoing.
Additional work permit again declined as job is still not `skilled`
Now on visitor visa until December but not allowed to work in ANY job.
Money is therefore very tight but at least our son is allowed to stay in the country legally.
Upside we can sponsor him in June as we will have been in country 3 years. Downside sponsorship will take at least 18-24 months.

Last edited by RobDon; Apr 25th 2012 at 10:34 am.
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