What lawyer can do me?
Jan 28th 2004, 1:02 am
#61
Forum Regular
Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 73
Re: What lawyer can do me?
Here is the section of the law for these rude and mean m.r.ns who can't interpret it properly one more time (BTW, for the record, I was thinking to leave this for rest but my earlier reply was somehow deleted without foul language although previous insults intended to me from 4 posters were not.):
"Section 22 of Citizenship Act below and section (b):
22. (1) Notwithstanding anything in this Act, a person shall not be granted citizenship under section 5 or subsection 11(1) or take the oath of citizenship
...
(b) while the person is charged with, on trial for or subject to or a party to an appeal relating to an offence under subsection 29(2) or (3) or an indictable offence under any Act of Parliament, other than an offence that is designated as a contravention under the Contraventions Act;"
So, look at the section 2 and what it applies. It clearly DOES NOT state that the if anyone is charged for anything than - he will be permitted to get citizenship or take the oath. That is absolutely not correct, there is a QUALIFICATION to it; it DOES NOT APPLY to EVERY little situation in the world - IT IS CONDITIONAL.
What it does say is a clear qualification when a person can't get the citizenship or oath. It says that a person can't get citizenship if an offence under section 29(2) or (3) (Does not apply - my comment) or an indictable offence under any Act of Parliament (Does apply - my comment), other than an offence that is designated as a contravention under the Contraventions Act (Does not apply);
So to keep it simpler "while the person is charged with, on trial for or subject to or a party to .[committed what does not apply].. an indictable offence under any Act of Parliament... [last part is crucial THE QUALIFICATION - WHEN]"
Which simply means if you committed indictable offense and wither you are charged, party or convicted you are not eligible to get citizenship under section 5 or subsection 11(1) or take the oath of citizenship. Earlier it was concluded - not to repeat that part again - that his transgression would not be indictable to all reasonable likelihood from Crown.
One more time it does not mean that if person is charged than he can't get citizenship or take the oath in all situations. It is connected with the NATURE of offense (indictable or not; i cited earlier which are hybrid, indictable etc.).
In this case it is not indictable offense and he would be fine in getting the citizenship.
P.S. So, in their ridiculous interpretation, everyone of immigrants would never be able to get a citizenship if guys like “wanna-be-experts� mentioned earlier file a charge against us for any frivolous and ridicules thing that can they think off and drag the process until eternity . (Off course they are such a nice people that they would not do it in the first place, but just hypothetically speaking
.
"Section 22 of Citizenship Act below and section (b):
22. (1) Notwithstanding anything in this Act, a person shall not be granted citizenship under section 5 or subsection 11(1) or take the oath of citizenship
...
(b) while the person is charged with, on trial for or subject to or a party to an appeal relating to an offence under subsection 29(2) or (3) or an indictable offence under any Act of Parliament, other than an offence that is designated as a contravention under the Contraventions Act;"
So, look at the section 2 and what it applies. It clearly DOES NOT state that the if anyone is charged for anything than - he will be permitted to get citizenship or take the oath. That is absolutely not correct, there is a QUALIFICATION to it; it DOES NOT APPLY to EVERY little situation in the world - IT IS CONDITIONAL.
What it does say is a clear qualification when a person can't get the citizenship or oath. It says that a person can't get citizenship if an offence under section 29(2) or (3) (Does not apply - my comment) or an indictable offence under any Act of Parliament (Does apply - my comment), other than an offence that is designated as a contravention under the Contraventions Act (Does not apply);
So to keep it simpler "while the person is charged with, on trial for or subject to or a party to .[committed what does not apply].. an indictable offence under any Act of Parliament... [last part is crucial THE QUALIFICATION - WHEN]"
Which simply means if you committed indictable offense and wither you are charged, party or convicted you are not eligible to get citizenship under section 5 or subsection 11(1) or take the oath of citizenship. Earlier it was concluded - not to repeat that part again - that his transgression would not be indictable to all reasonable likelihood from Crown.
One more time it does not mean that if person is charged than he can't get citizenship or take the oath in all situations. It is connected with the NATURE of offense (indictable or not; i cited earlier which are hybrid, indictable etc.).
In this case it is not indictable offense and he would be fine in getting the citizenship.
P.S. So, in their ridiculous interpretation, everyone of immigrants would never be able to get a citizenship if guys like “wanna-be-experts� mentioned earlier file a charge against us for any frivolous and ridicules thing that can they think off and drag the process until eternity . (Off course they are such a nice people that they would not do it in the first place, but just hypothetically speaking
.
Jan 28th 2004, 3:59 am
#62
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: What lawyer can do me?
Hello Cicero,
With your encouragement, I talked a lawyer this afternoon
I found her name on yellowpage and titled criminial lawyer
I told her all truth about my shoplifting as you advised
She said she is willing to be appeared with me on the date of being on
the court
When I asked how much it cost for this service
she said about $500~700 CAN and I should bring $500 cash on that day
as "retainee??" I donot know this specific term. It means basic charge
I should pay for her.
My question is this: Is this price reasonable for my case?
Why I should give her cash? Does lawyer accept only by cash, not by
check?
Do I have to pay such money for her regardless of any consequences
sentenced by the Judge? How I can know she have done something for me?
Sorry for many questions, I am just a graduated student without much
money
If lawyer charge is too expensive, I am going to call others. If ok, I
will
keep her as my lawyer on the count.
Could u give me any advice on it?
thank you
JOHN
Cicero <member18614@british_expats.com> wrote in message news:<[email protected]>...
> John,
>
> You are welcome. You seem to be a nice guy, that made a
> mistake. Everyone does to different degree (we are all humans), draws
> serious conclusions not to repeat those things, take appropriate
> actions, pays appropriate price (not over from what it deserves) and
> move happily forward.
>
> It clearly there are should be preventions
> against applicants with serious crimes but law makes clear distinction
> about type of offenses. If the person is charged / sentenced for an
> indictable offense that he would be prevented for getting the
> citizenship although there are number of possibilities even if the
> charge, sentence has been made. This is not the case in your situation
> as many time said and you will be absolutly fine in all reasonable
> likelhood with citizenship application.
>
> Although, you seem reluctant
> to take the lawyer - my advices from the begging was to take one. There
> are many aspects that need to be looked at (like citizenship) although
> his seem to be a standard case.
>
> To answer these of your questions
> directly:
> "So I just want to ask " is there a way or possibility to
> prevent me
> from being in jail?", "is there a way I can do to result in
> light
> punishments?"
>
> For this type of theft under the circumstances, in
> all reasonable likelihood, you would pay fine but there would be no jail
> time.
>
> "Is it possible to get my Citizenship approval even I have
> crime
> record?"
>
> In your case, as I mentioned earlier several times, you
> have absolutely excellent chances of getting the citizenship despite the
> circumstance. Talk with the lawyer, explore possibilities and you would
> be absolutely fine. Mean-spirtied arogant people - that you had wrote
> here - are better to be avioded.
>
> Good luck and no need for despair at
> all.
>
>
> Originally posted by John
With your encouragement, I talked a lawyer this afternoon
I found her name on yellowpage and titled criminial lawyer
I told her all truth about my shoplifting as you advised
She said she is willing to be appeared with me on the date of being on
the court
When I asked how much it cost for this service
she said about $500~700 CAN and I should bring $500 cash on that day
as "retainee??" I donot know this specific term. It means basic charge
I should pay for her.
My question is this: Is this price reasonable for my case?
Why I should give her cash? Does lawyer accept only by cash, not by
check?
Do I have to pay such money for her regardless of any consequences
sentenced by the Judge? How I can know she have done something for me?
Sorry for many questions, I am just a graduated student without much
money
If lawyer charge is too expensive, I am going to call others. If ok, I
will
keep her as my lawyer on the count.
Could u give me any advice on it?
thank you
JOHN
Cicero <member18614@british_expats.com> wrote in message news:<[email protected]>...
> John,
>
> You are welcome. You seem to be a nice guy, that made a
> mistake. Everyone does to different degree (we are all humans), draws
> serious conclusions not to repeat those things, take appropriate
> actions, pays appropriate price (not over from what it deserves) and
> move happily forward.
>
> It clearly there are should be preventions
> against applicants with serious crimes but law makes clear distinction
> about type of offenses. If the person is charged / sentenced for an
> indictable offense that he would be prevented for getting the
> citizenship although there are number of possibilities even if the
> charge, sentence has been made. This is not the case in your situation
> as many time said and you will be absolutly fine in all reasonable
> likelhood with citizenship application.
>
> Although, you seem reluctant
> to take the lawyer - my advices from the begging was to take one. There
> are many aspects that need to be looked at (like citizenship) although
> his seem to be a standard case.
>
> To answer these of your questions
> directly:
> "So I just want to ask " is there a way or possibility to
> prevent me
> from being in jail?", "is there a way I can do to result in
> light
> punishments?"
>
> For this type of theft under the circumstances, in
> all reasonable likelihood, you would pay fine but there would be no jail
> time.
>
> "Is it possible to get my Citizenship approval even I have
> crime
> record?"
>
> In your case, as I mentioned earlier several times, you
> have absolutely excellent chances of getting the citizenship despite the
> circumstance. Talk with the lawyer, explore possibilities and you would
> be absolutely fine. Mean-spirtied arogant people - that you had wrote
> here - are better to be avioded.
>
> Good luck and no need for despair at
> all.
>
>
> Originally posted by John
Jan 28th 2004, 4:55 am
#63
Forum Regular
Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 73
Re: What lawyer can do me?
Hi John,
Some of my suggestions:
- Research case for yourself - talk to you friends, library, Net, etc. You are driving the case, no mater if you have a lawyer with you. You need to be informed, ask the right questions, be involved in the case.
- I am not in Canada but I can tell you that in Europe and the US, most reputable lawyers that I am aware are not asking for cash. So, I would be rather cautious with that lawyer asking for cash.
- Also, suggest that you speak on phone if you can with 3-5 lawyers (pre-screen phase, at least one or two recommended by someone) and visit 2-3 lawyers in person before deciding that you are comfortable with. Make decision at home without any pressures and give yourself enough time to find a good one, as time permits. Compare the prices but also compare their service offerings. Lost case has the highest price although your chances are very good. Think and make rational decisions. Trust your gut felling who would represent you the best and who do you trust the most.
- Make sure that you have a contract with the attorney and to understand process and charges. Ask her/him questions.
- I know that you have tough time now but everythign will be fine keep you chin up, be postive, be smart ...
Best wishes
[QUOTE]Originally posted by John
Hello Cicero,
With your encouragement, I talked a lawyer this afternoon
I found her name on yellowpage and titled criminial lawyer
I told her all truth about my shoplifting as you advised
She said she is willing to be appeared with me on the date of being on
the court
When I asked how much it cost for this service
she said about $500~700 CAN and I should bring $500 cash on that day
as "retainee??" I donot know this specific term. It means basic charge
I should pay for her.
My question is this: Is this price reasonable for my case?
Why I should give her cash? Does lawyer accept only by cash, not by
check?
Do I have to pay such money for her regardless of any consequences
sentenced by the Judge? How I can know she have done something for me?
Sorry for many questions, I am just a graduated student without much
money
If lawyer charge is too expensive, I am going to call others. If ok, I
will
keep her as my lawyer on the count.
Could u give me any advice on it?
thank you
JOHN
Some of my suggestions:
- Research case for yourself - talk to you friends, library, Net, etc. You are driving the case, no mater if you have a lawyer with you. You need to be informed, ask the right questions, be involved in the case.
- I am not in Canada but I can tell you that in Europe and the US, most reputable lawyers that I am aware are not asking for cash. So, I would be rather cautious with that lawyer asking for cash.
- Also, suggest that you speak on phone if you can with 3-5 lawyers (pre-screen phase, at least one or two recommended by someone) and visit 2-3 lawyers in person before deciding that you are comfortable with. Make decision at home without any pressures and give yourself enough time to find a good one, as time permits. Compare the prices but also compare their service offerings. Lost case has the highest price although your chances are very good. Think and make rational decisions. Trust your gut felling who would represent you the best and who do you trust the most.
- Make sure that you have a contract with the attorney and to understand process and charges. Ask her/him questions.
- I know that you have tough time now but everythign will be fine keep you chin up, be postive, be smart ...
Best wishes
[QUOTE]Originally posted by John
Hello Cicero,
With your encouragement, I talked a lawyer this afternoon
I found her name on yellowpage and titled criminial lawyer
I told her all truth about my shoplifting as you advised
She said she is willing to be appeared with me on the date of being on
the court
When I asked how much it cost for this service
she said about $500~700 CAN and I should bring $500 cash on that day
as "retainee??" I donot know this specific term. It means basic charge
I should pay for her.
My question is this: Is this price reasonable for my case?
Why I should give her cash? Does lawyer accept only by cash, not by
check?
Do I have to pay such money for her regardless of any consequences
sentenced by the Judge? How I can know she have done something for me?
Sorry for many questions, I am just a graduated student without much
money
If lawyer charge is too expensive, I am going to call others. If ok, I
will
keep her as my lawyer on the count.
Could u give me any advice on it?
thank you
JOHN
Jan 28th 2004, 5:19 am
#64
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: What lawyer can do me?
in a recent article, JOHN ([email protected]) said:
> Hello Cicero...
<snip>
> My question is this: Is this price reasonable for my case?
Firstly, John...with all due respect, if you turn to Cicero for advice
on legal matters, you'll probably wind up getting the death penalty. And
the death penalty doesn't even exist in Canada.
Secondly, what you SHOULD DO is contact the provincial Law Society (i.e.
Law Society of BC, Law Society of Ontario, Law Society of...you get the
picture. In most provinces, there is a lawyer referral service where you
can get an initial consultation (I believe it is 30 minutes) with a lawyer
for about $10.00. In most cases, the lawyers don't even charge that money,
so it is essentially a free consultation. Hmm...come to think about it, I
wonder why Cicero didn't suggest the Lawyer referral service. But that's a
whole different thread in another newsgroup.
Last but not least, once again with all due respect: This is an
immigration forum. You have received the answer to your initial question as
it relates to your citizenship application (though you seem to have chosen
to ignore responses from the more knowledgeable and experienced users of
this newsgroup). If you wish to know about legal matters, you should refer
your questions to a newsgroup that deals with legal issues. This newsgroup
is NOT the place to ask your questions as they refer to lawyer fees et al.
Of course, another option is that you could contact Cicero directly via
Email. I am certain he would love giving you all the legal advice he can
conjure in Email discussions.
Good luck.
--
Say "I am not American" in TWELVE languages.
The original "I am not American" T-shirts - as seen on CNN
http://www.iamnotamerican.com
Remove underscores (_) from Email address to reply.
> Hello Cicero...
<snip>
> My question is this: Is this price reasonable for my case?
Firstly, John...with all due respect, if you turn to Cicero for advice
on legal matters, you'll probably wind up getting the death penalty. And
the death penalty doesn't even exist in Canada.
Secondly, what you SHOULD DO is contact the provincial Law Society (i.e.
Law Society of BC, Law Society of Ontario, Law Society of...you get the
picture. In most provinces, there is a lawyer referral service where you
can get an initial consultation (I believe it is 30 minutes) with a lawyer
for about $10.00. In most cases, the lawyers don't even charge that money,
so it is essentially a free consultation. Hmm...come to think about it, I
wonder why Cicero didn't suggest the Lawyer referral service. But that's a
whole different thread in another newsgroup.
Last but not least, once again with all due respect: This is an
immigration forum. You have received the answer to your initial question as
it relates to your citizenship application (though you seem to have chosen
to ignore responses from the more knowledgeable and experienced users of
this newsgroup). If you wish to know about legal matters, you should refer
your questions to a newsgroup that deals with legal issues. This newsgroup
is NOT the place to ask your questions as they refer to lawyer fees et al.
Of course, another option is that you could contact Cicero directly via
Email. I am certain he would love giving you all the legal advice he can
conjure in Email discussions.
Good luck.
--
Say "I am not American" in TWELVE languages.
The original "I am not American" T-shirts - as seen on CNN
http://www.iamnotamerican.com
Remove underscores (_) from Email address to reply.
Jan 28th 2004, 5:26 am
#65
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: What lawyer can do me?
in a recent article, Cicero (member18614@british_expats.com) said:
> You are real moron and ass-hole
> Do I need to explain to every so-called-expert-wanna-
> be or moron everything all over again, you asswhole.
> You are real moron and ass-hole
> Do I need to explain to every so-called-expert-wanna-
> be or moron everything all over again, you asswhole.
Jan 28th 2004, 9:16 am
#66
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: What lawyer can do me?
If this is not forum for my case, I'd like to say sorry. However,
I can not find any forum talking about such as criminal,
shoplifting...
I have already searched these keywords such "shoplifting canada,
criminal, theft handling..." All the result is connected to this group
I do not know why. If you or anybody can suggest me how to find out
appropriate forum for my case. I apprecaite it very much.
JOHN
"http://www.iamnotamerican.com" <newsgroup@iam_not_american.com> wrote in message news:<BC3C9452.24F20%newsgroup@iam_not_american.co m>...
> in a recent article, JOHN ([email protected]) said:
>
> > Hello Cicero...
> <snip>
>
> > My question is this: Is this price reasonable for my case?
> Firstly, John...with all due respect, if you turn to Cicero for advice
> on legal matters, you'll probably wind up getting the death penalty. And
> the death penalty doesn't even exist in Canada.
>
> Secondly, what you SHOULD DO is contact the provincial Law Society (i.e.
> Law Society of BC, Law Society of Ontario, Law Society of...you get the
> picture. In most provinces, there is a lawyer referral service where you
> can get an initial consultation (I believe it is 30 minutes) with a lawyer
> for about $10.00. In most cases, the lawyers don't even charge that money,
> so it is essentially a free consultation. Hmm...come to think about it, I
> wonder why Cicero didn't suggest the Lawyer referral service. But that's a
> whole different thread in another newsgroup.
>
> Last but not least, once again with all due respect: This is an
> immigration forum. You have received the answer to your initial question as
> it relates to your citizenship application (though you seem to have chosen
> to ignore responses from the more knowledgeable and experienced users of
> this newsgroup). If you wish to know about legal matters, you should refer
> your questions to a newsgroup that deals with legal issues. This newsgroup
> is NOT the place to ask your questions as they refer to lawyer fees et al.
>
> Of course, another option is that you could contact Cicero directly via
> Email. I am certain he would love giving you all the legal advice he can
> conjure in Email discussions.
>
> Good luck.
I can not find any forum talking about such as criminal,
shoplifting...
I have already searched these keywords such "shoplifting canada,
criminal, theft handling..." All the result is connected to this group
I do not know why. If you or anybody can suggest me how to find out
appropriate forum for my case. I apprecaite it very much.
JOHN
"http://www.iamnotamerican.com" <newsgroup@iam_not_american.com> wrote in message news:<BC3C9452.24F20%newsgroup@iam_not_american.co m>...
> in a recent article, JOHN ([email protected]) said:
>
> > Hello Cicero...
> <snip>
>
> > My question is this: Is this price reasonable for my case?
> Firstly, John...with all due respect, if you turn to Cicero for advice
> on legal matters, you'll probably wind up getting the death penalty. And
> the death penalty doesn't even exist in Canada.
>
> Secondly, what you SHOULD DO is contact the provincial Law Society (i.e.
> Law Society of BC, Law Society of Ontario, Law Society of...you get the
> picture. In most provinces, there is a lawyer referral service where you
> can get an initial consultation (I believe it is 30 minutes) with a lawyer
> for about $10.00. In most cases, the lawyers don't even charge that money,
> so it is essentially a free consultation. Hmm...come to think about it, I
> wonder why Cicero didn't suggest the Lawyer referral service. But that's a
> whole different thread in another newsgroup.
>
> Last but not least, once again with all due respect: This is an
> immigration forum. You have received the answer to your initial question as
> it relates to your citizenship application (though you seem to have chosen
> to ignore responses from the more knowledgeable and experienced users of
> this newsgroup). If you wish to know about legal matters, you should refer
> your questions to a newsgroup that deals with legal issues. This newsgroup
> is NOT the place to ask your questions as they refer to lawyer fees et al.
>
> Of course, another option is that you could contact Cicero directly via
> Email. I am certain he would love giving you all the legal advice he can
> conjure in Email discussions.
>
> Good luck.
Jan 28th 2004, 4:48 pm
#67
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: What lawyer can do me?
in a recent article, JOHN ([email protected]) said:
> If this is not forum for my case, I'd like to say sorry. However,
> I can not find any forum talking about such as criminal,
> shoplifting...
> I have already searched these keywords such "shoplifting canada,
> criminal, theft handling..." All the result is connected to this group
> I do not know why. If you or anybody can suggest me how to find out
> appropriate forum for my case. I apprecaite it very much.
Pretty much anything with CAN and LEGAL (or something similar) in the
newsgroup title. Let's be daring and try can.legal. :-) Glad to have been
of assistance. :-)
--
Say "I am not American" in TWELVE languages.
The original "I am not American" T-shirts - as seen on CNN
http://www.iamnotamerican.com
Remove underscores (_) from Email address to reply.
> If this is not forum for my case, I'd like to say sorry. However,
> I can not find any forum talking about such as criminal,
> shoplifting...
> I have already searched these keywords such "shoplifting canada,
> criminal, theft handling..." All the result is connected to this group
> I do not know why. If you or anybody can suggest me how to find out
> appropriate forum for my case. I apprecaite it very much.
Pretty much anything with CAN and LEGAL (or something similar) in the
newsgroup title. Let's be daring and try can.legal. :-) Glad to have been
of assistance. :-)
--
Say "I am not American" in TWELVE languages.
The original "I am not American" T-shirts - as seen on CNN
http://www.iamnotamerican.com
Remove underscores (_) from Email address to reply.
Jan 28th 2004, 4:48 pm
#68
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: What lawyer can do me?
in a recent article, Cicero (member18614@british_expats.com) said:
> - I am not in Canada but I can tell
Ah, so now we understand 'Cicero' and his knowledge of Canadian
immigration (and legal) policies.
> - I am not in Canada but I can tell
Ah, so now we understand 'Cicero' and his knowledge of Canadian
immigration (and legal) policies.
