Lucky

My American friend is in her mid-50's and has retired from a job of +30
years that did not require a university or any technical degree. Her
retirement benefits per month are above the average Canadian income. She
does not own a home in the States. She has no family in Canda but loves
Vancouver and would like to stay here.

Although she does not *have* to work, she would like to consider it in
the future since she'll get bored otherwise.

I realize from the archives that the 'retired persons' section of the
immigration act no longer exists so that's out. I would like to know,
therefore,

1) if she comes in as a 'tourist' for 6 months, how long would she have
to return to the States before she can re-enter Canada? She doesn't
really want to maintain two residences,

2) is this even a practical solution since I realize she'll have to deal
with US and Canadian taxes (and will require a good tax expert),

3) does anyone recommend (hopefully from personal experience) an
immigration lawyer in Vancouver who can think creatively about this.

Thanks for any advice.

L.

Jim Humphries

You asked this and were answered. The idea is not practical.
--
Jim Humphries, former visa officer

Lucky

Jim Humphries wrote:
    >
    > You asked this and were answered. The idea is not practical.
    > --
    > Jim Humphries, former visa officer

This is my first time asking the newsgroup - so, yes, t technically I
did ask this but no, my questions haven't answered :-)

If there's a similar question that was floating around this newsgroup at
the google.com archive, then I must have missed it. Any idea of some key
words I can use besides 'retire' and 'US' or 'American'? One thread
mentioned that the retiree section was eliminated but I believe the
thread was over two years old and I'm sure the process has changed since then.

Still open for advice re: the initial questions.

Lucky

\"Half-Canadian\

"Lucky" wrote in message news:[email protected]...
    > Jim Humphries wrote:
    > >
    > > You asked this and were answered. The idea is not practical.
    > > --
    > > Jim Humphries, former visa officer
    > This is my first time asking the newsgroup - so, yes, t technically I
    > did ask this but no, my questions haven't answered :-)
    > If there's a similar question that was floating around this newsgroup at
    > the google.com archive, then I must have missed it. Any idea of some key
    > words I can use besides 'retire' and 'US' or 'American'? One thread
    > mentioned that the retiree section was eliminated but I believe the
    > thread was over two years old and I'm sure the process has changed since
then.
    > Still open for advice re: the initial questions.
    > Lucky


Here's a clip from a posting I made to this newsgroup last year which may be
of some interest to you regarding your question:


Just to demonstrate how important it is to be clear on this subject before
you (a US citizen) plunge into buying property in Canada, here's what
happened to someone who bought
a home in my neighbourhood in a community near Vancouver last year ....

This couple decided to sell their home in California, take the equity to
purchase a home here and use the remainder for a leisurely early retirement.
They arrived at the border with their household goods in a U-Haul truck and
cheerfully told the customs agent at the booth that they were "moving to
their new home in Canada". After directing them inside the customs office
and after further questioning by the immigration department, their
intentions were clearly understood by the agents on duty. Their goods were
then placed in bonded customs storage (a gentle word for temporary seizure)
and
they were denied entry to Canada, as it was clear that they were planning to
live more or less full-time in BC without benefit of any legal immigration
status. A year later, they are still living in a rented home south of the
border, and have invested many thousands of dollars in legal fees attempting
to gain status here so they can live in their house. Frankly, it is
unlikely they will ever be able to live here for more than a short visitor
visa's stay at a time, so they have had to make arrangements to rent a
full-time permanent residence in the US, and use their home here just for
short visits.



The conclusion of this story is that this couple spent a huge amount on
legal fees attempting to gain residency, and were not permitted to enter
Canada to spend even a night in their new home here in Vancouver. After
about three years they finally gave up, sold the home here (at a loss) and
went back to California, poorer but wiser.


Laurie in BC

Lucky

\"Half-Canadian\" wrote:

    > Here's a clip from a posting I made to this newsgroup last year which may be
    > of some interest to you regarding your question:
    >
    >
    > Just to demonstrate how important it is to be clear on this subject before
    > you (a US citizen) plunge into buying property in Canada, here's what
    > happened to someone who bought
    > a home in my neighbourhood in a community near Vancouver last year ....



    > The conclusion of this story is that this couple spent a huge amount on
    > legal fees attempting to gain residency, and were not permitted to enter
    > Canada to spend even a night in their new home here in Vancouver. After
    > about three years they finally gave up, sold the home here (at a loss) and
    > went back to California, poorer but wiser.

Ho-boy.

OK, obviously the tack to take is not to try for permanent residency :-)
In any case, she wouldn't buy property but would rent instead so at
least she won't have*that* part of the story to contend with.

I've tried the CIC site and when I search for 'length of stay',
'tourist', the search field gives me a lot of hits from .pdf files that
don't have descriptive titles.

Off the top of the smart people's heads... I realize that length of stay
for tourists is six months. But is that six months *maximum* per
calendar year or six months concurrently? I'm sure she'd like to visit
her family in the States so I can't imagine her being here for 12
consequetive months a year.

Thanks for the sobering lesson. Any more advice is gratefully appreciated.

Lucky

Andrew Miller

It seems that you misunderstood Half-Canadian's story. It was not about
buying property - it was about attempt to move to Canada without going
through the proper immigration process. There is nothing wrong with buying a
vacation property in Canada and visit here often - out law provides some
flexibility for Americans (not only) who have their second/seasonal home in
Canada. They can even import without duty and taxes furniture and other
household items for use in their second/seasonal home in Canada. But they
must maintain their primary residence in US and never attempt to "move" to
Canada like couple from the story.

Length of stay is not 6 months - it is up to 6 months as admitted by
immigration officer at the port of entry. Admission may be granted for just
few days and up to 6 months. Someone leaving Canada after extended stay just
to return shortly after will sooner or later (more often sooner) be shocked
when officer issues Visitor Record with the clear instruction to leave
Canada within few days or weeks or simply refuses admission. Visiting is not
living, just like Canadians ("snowbirds") are visiting US, even for extended
period living in their winter homes in warmer places - but always return to
their primary residence in Canada after the winter. If they would sell their
primary residence and not have any other substantial ties to Canada they
would be refused entry to US as well.

--

../..

Andrew Miller
Immigration Consultant
Vancouver, British Columbia
email: [email protected]
(delete REMOVE from the above address before sending email)

For confidential phone consultation go here:

http://members.yahoo.liveadvice.com/andrewmiller_canada
________________________________



This is why in the first answer to the original post Jim wrote that the plan
is not practical at all.
"Lucky" wrote in message news:[email protected]...

    > Ho-boy.
    > OK, obviously the tack to take is not to try for permanent residency :-)
    > In any case, she wouldn't buy property but would rent instead so at
    > least she won't have*that* part of the story to contend with.
    > I've tried the CIC site and when I search for 'length of stay',
    > 'tourist', the search field gives me a lot of hits from .pdf files that
    > don't have descriptive titles.
    > Off the top of the smart people's heads... I realize that length of stay
    > for tourists is six months. But is that six months *maximum* per
    > calendar year or six months concurrently? I'm sure she'd like to visit
    > her family in the States so I can't imagine her being here for 12
    > consequetive months a year.
    > Thanks for the sobering lesson. Any more advice is gratefully appreciated.
    > Lucky

    > \"Half-Canadian\" wrote:
    > > Here's a clip from a posting I made to this newsgroup last year which
may be
    > > of some interest to you regarding your question:
    > >
    > >
    > > Just to demonstrate how important it is to be clear on this subject
before
    > > you (a US citizen) plunge into buying property in Canada, here's what
    > > happened to someone who bought
    > > a home in my neighbourhood in a community near Vancouver last year ....
    >
    > > The conclusion of this story is that this couple spent a huge amount on
    > > legal fees attempting to gain residency, and were not permitted to enter
    > > Canada to spend even a night in their new home here in Vancouver. After
    > > about three years they finally gave up, sold the home here (at a loss)
and
    > > went back to California, poorer but wiser.

Lucky

Andrew Miller wrote:
    >
    > It seems that you misunderstood Half-Canadian's story. It was not about
    > buying property - it was about attempt to move to Canada without going
    > through the proper immigration process. There is nothing wrong with buying a
    > vacation property in Canada and visit here often - out law provides some
    > flexibility for Americans (not only) who have their second/seasonal home in
    > Canada. They can even import without duty and taxes furniture and other
    > household items for use in their second/seasonal home in Canada. But they
    > must maintain their primary residence in US and never attempt to "move" to
    > Canada like couple from the story.

I understood the story very well. I just meant that at least my American
friend won't have to have all that horrible stuff happen to her as
related in the story because we're trying to figure out if it's possible
to live here *before* doing something as dramatic as the story's couple.
And, as I stated, I guess the permanent residency option is out.

Ergo, the option of her just visiting Canada *a lot* :-) Sorry if there
was any confusion.

    >
    > Length of stay is not 6 months - it is up to 6 months as admitted by
    > immigration officer at the port of entry. Admission may be granted for just
    > few days and up to 6 months. Someone leaving Canada after extended stay just
    > to return shortly after will sooner or later (more often sooner) be shocked
    > when officer issues Visitor Record with the clear instruction to leave
    > Canada within few days or weeks or simply refuses admission. Visiting is not
    > living, just like Canadians ("snowbirds") are visiting US, even for extended
    > period living in their winter homes in warmer places - but always return to
    > their primary residence in Canada after the winter. If they would sell their
    > primary residence and not have any other substantial ties to Canada they
    > would be refused entry to US as well.

But then I don't understand what happens vis-a-vis renters. She is a
renter in the States. I guess I'm confused as to how Immigration would
determine 'primary residence' if she's not a home-owner and only has a
lease to present as her proof of primary residency back in the States.

If she's classified as a visitor, now we have to figure out how long she
can visit for and how often within a calendar year. She has no plans to
buy property here and, obviously, will not look for work. However, it
would certainly help to know how long she can visit Vancouver when she
prepares her yearly budget since she will have to take into account
travel and vacation costs.

Which is why it would aid her to know what is the maximum length of
time, legally, she can visit Canada within a year.

I hope I'm clearer :-)

Lucky

.
    >
    > Andrew Miller
    > Immigration Consultant
    > Vancouver, British Columbia
    > email: [email protected]
    > (delete REMOVE from the above address before sending email)
    >
    > For confidential phone consultation go here:
    >
    > http://members.yahoo.liveadvice.com/andrewmiller_canada
    > ________________________________
    >
    > This is why in the first answer to the original post Jim wrote that the plan
    > is not practical at all.
    > "Lucky" wrote in message news:[email protected]...
    >
    > >
    > > Ho-boy.
    > >
    > > OK, obviously the tack to take is not to try for permanent residency :-)
    > > In any case, she wouldn't buy property but would rent instead so at
    > > least she won't have*that* part of the story to contend with.



    > > Off the top of the smart people's heads... I realize that length of stay
    > > for tourists is six months. But is that six months *maximum* per
    > > calendar year or six months concurrently? I'm sure she'd like to visit
    > > her family in the States so I can't imagine her being here for 12
    > > consequetive months a year.
    > >
    > > Thanks for the sobering lesson. Any more advice is gratefully appreciated.
    > >
    > > Lucky
    >
    > > \"Half-Canadian\" wrote:
    > >
    > > > Here's a clip from a posting I made to this newsgroup last year which
    > may be
    > > > of some interest to you regarding your question:
    > > >
    > > >
    > > > Just to demonstrate how important it is to be clear on this subject
    > before
    > > > you (a US citizen) plunge into buying property in Canada, here's what
    > > > happened to someone who bought
    > > > a home in my neighbourhood in a community near Vancouver last year ....
    > >
    > >

Andrew Miller

Unfortunately one cannot plan those things - she may get easy in once or
twice but sooner or later when officers realize that she is really living
here she will be given rather short admission or be refused entry. Again, as
Jim wrote - it is not practical at all. What about her health insurance? She
won't be eligible for any here and travel insurance is time and services
limited. Going back to your original post - you wrote that she may not
*have* to work but she may consider it later and that she has no intention
of maintaining two residences. It means living in Canada, not visiting - it
will not work.

--

../..

Andrew Miller
Immigration Consultant
Vancouver, British Columbia
email: [email protected]
(delete REMOVE from the above address before sending email)

For confidential phone consultation go here:

http://members.yahoo.liveadvice.com/andrewmiller_canada
________________________________


"Lucky" wrote in message news:[email protected]...
    > Andrew Miller wrote:
    > >
    > > It seems that you misunderstood Half-Canadian's story. It was not about
    > > buying property - it was about attempt to move to Canada without going
    > > through the proper immigration process. There is nothing wrong with
buying a
    > > vacation property in Canada and visit here often - out law provides some
    > > flexibility for Americans (not only) who have their second/seasonal home
in
    > > Canada. They can even import without duty and taxes furniture and other
    > > household items for use in their second/seasonal home in Canada. But
they
    > > must maintain their primary residence in US and never attempt to "move"
to
    > > Canada like couple from the story.
    > I understood the story very well. I just meant that at least my American
    > friend won't have to have all that horrible stuff happen to her as
    > related in the story because we're trying to figure out if it's possible
    > to live here *before* doing something as dramatic as the story's couple.
    > And, as I stated, I guess the permanent residency option is out.
    > Ergo, the option of her just visiting Canada *a lot* :-) Sorry if there
    > was any confusion.
    > >
    > > Length of stay is not 6 months - it is up to 6 months as admitted by
    > > immigration officer at the port of entry. Admission may be granted for
just
    > > few days and up to 6 months. Someone leaving Canada after extended stay
just
    > > to return shortly after will sooner or later (more often sooner) be
shocked
    > > when officer issues Visitor Record with the clear instruction to leave
    > > Canada within few days or weeks or simply refuses admission. Visiting is
not
    > > living, just like Canadians ("snowbirds") are visiting US, even for
extended
    > > period living in their winter homes in warmer places - but always return
to
    > > their primary residence in Canada after the winter. If they would sell
their
    > > primary residence and not have any other substantial ties to Canada they
    > > would be refused entry to US as well.
    > But then I don't understand what happens vis-a-vis renters. She is a
    > renter in the States. I guess I'm confused as to how Immigration would
    > determine 'primary residence' if she's not a home-owner and only has a
    > lease to present as her proof of primary residency back in the States.
    > If she's classified as a visitor, now we have to figure out how long she
    > can visit for and how often within a calendar year. She has no plans to
    > buy property here and, obviously, will not look for work. However, it
    > would certainly help to know how long she can visit Vancouver when she
    > prepares her yearly budget since she will have to take into account
    > travel and vacation costs.
    > Which is why it would aid her to know what is the maximum length of
    > time, legally, she can visit Canada within a year.
    > I hope I'm clearer :-)
    > Lucky
    > .
    > >
    > > Andrew Miller
    > > Immigration Consultant
    > > Vancouver, British Columbia
    > > email: [email protected]
    > > (delete REMOVE from the above address before sending email)
    > >
    > > For confidential phone consultation go here:
    > >
    > > http://members.yahoo.liveadvice.com/andrewmiller_canada
    > > ________________________________
    > >
    > > This is why in the first answer to the original post Jim wrote that the
plan
    > > is not practical at all.
    > > "Lucky" wrote in message news:[email protected]...
    > >
    > > >
    > > > Ho-boy.
    > > >
    > > > OK, obviously the tack to take is not to try for permanent residency
    :-)
    > > > In any case, she wouldn't buy property but would rent instead so at
    > > > least she won't have*that* part of the story to contend with.
    >
    > > > Off the top of the smart people's heads... I realize that length of
stay
    > > > for tourists is six months. But is that six months *maximum* per
    > > > calendar year or six months concurrently? I'm sure she'd like to visit
    > > > her family in the States so I can't imagine her being here for 12
    > > > consequetive months a year.
    > > >
    > > > Thanks for the sobering lesson. Any more advice is gratefully
appreciated.
    > > >
    > > > Lucky
    > >
    > > > \"Half-Canadian\" wrote:
    > > >
    > > > > Here's a clip from a posting I made to this newsgroup last year
which
    > > may be
    > > > > of some interest to you regarding your question:
    > > > >
    > > > >
    > > > > Just to demonstrate how important it is to be clear on this subject
    > > before
    > > > > you (a US citizen) plunge into buying property in Canada, here's
what
    > > > > happened to someone who bought
    > > > > a home in my neighbourhood in a community near Vancouver last year
....
    > > >
    > > >

Am

To avoide all this hassle you guys should have an agreement between Canada &
the States whereby citizens of one country can live in the other &
vice-versa. We've had such a thing here in Europe for a long time & it
works quite well. Despite the economic differences between EU members & the
high population density of most EU countries there's no real danger of one
country becoming 'flooded' with immigrants from another EU country because
one thing balances another, i.e. you may earn less money in Spain or Greece
than in Germany or Denmark but you get warm, sunny weather which means a lot
of people opt to retire in the South.

Since both Canada & the US are 'rich', industrialized countries, there no
reason why this shouldn't work there too. There's the added advantage that,
with the exception of Canadian francophones & American Latinos, you all
speak the same language.


"Lucky" wrote in message news:[email protected]...
    > My American friend is in her mid-50's and has retired from a job of +30
    > years that did not require a university or any technical degree. Her
    > retirement benefits per month are above the average Canadian income. She
    > does not own a home in the States. She has no family in Canda but loves
    > Vancouver and would like to stay here.
    > Although she does not *have* to work, she would like to consider it in
    > the future since she'll get bored otherwise.
    > I realize from the archives that the 'retired persons' section of the
    > immigration act no longer exists so that's out. I would like to know,
    > therefore,
    > 1) if she comes in as a 'tourist' for 6 months, how long would she have
    > to return to the States before she can re-enter Canada? She doesn't
    > really want to maintain two residences,
    > 2) is this even a practical solution since I realize she'll have to deal
    > with US and Canadian taxes (and will require a good tax expert),
    > 3) does anyone recommend (hopefully from personal experience) an
    > immigration lawyer in Vancouver who can think creatively about this.
    > Thanks for any advice.
    > L.




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