Undecided about Canada
May 16th 2003, 8:11 am
#1
Guest
Posts: n/a
Undecided about Canada
I've been following this ng for quite a
long time and I still cannot make up my
mind about Canada. Green pasture, jumping point
for US, US backyard, Land of Opportunity,
social-democracy, safe streets, you name it. Many like it
there, some whine, a few even hate it.
I am holding a PR but I work in another country (not US).
When I landed in Vancouver to activate my status I had
the opportunity to discuss with some
people with a similar background and
country of origin as mine. I felt a bit
dissapointed with their stories. As for me, I saw
drug addicts in downtown, a lot of white people
that looked weird (I am white also), condominiums
that looked teleported from Florida or Hawaii. Rather
strange world, I thought. On the
other hand one of my best friends is a
success story in a high-tech company in
Canada. Millionaire, etc. Another one
took the citizenship and flew to Arizona.
So, to finally decide which way to go,
I started reading online Canadian
newspapers, newsgroups, etc. To no avail.
I don't want to wait till I grow old to
make a decision. So I would like to
hear some of your "Canadian experience"
stories. For good or the bad.
I know this sounds a bit pathetic. Just
take it easy, please.
Thanks,
Randi
long time and I still cannot make up my
mind about Canada. Green pasture, jumping point
for US, US backyard, Land of Opportunity,
social-democracy, safe streets, you name it. Many like it
there, some whine, a few even hate it.
I am holding a PR but I work in another country (not US).
When I landed in Vancouver to activate my status I had
the opportunity to discuss with some
people with a similar background and
country of origin as mine. I felt a bit
dissapointed with their stories. As for me, I saw
drug addicts in downtown, a lot of white people
that looked weird (I am white also), condominiums
that looked teleported from Florida or Hawaii. Rather
strange world, I thought. On the
other hand one of my best friends is a
success story in a high-tech company in
Canada. Millionaire, etc. Another one
took the citizenship and flew to Arizona.
So, to finally decide which way to go,
I started reading online Canadian
newspapers, newsgroups, etc. To no avail.
I don't want to wait till I grow old to
make a decision. So I would like to
hear some of your "Canadian experience"
stories. For good or the bad.
I know this sounds a bit pathetic. Just
take it easy, please.
Thanks,
Randi
May 16th 2003, 9:03 pm
#2
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Undecided about Canada
[email protected] (RandiB) wrote:
> I don't want to wait till I grow old to
> make a decision. So I would like to
> hear some of your "Canadian experience"
> stories.
Look, a lot of it is up to you. Right now it's not easy, but then, if
you look back through postings on this newsgroup, there were people
whining even during the good times. I can tell you my own condensed
story:
I wasn't doing too well financially in the UK, I had a dead end shit
job interspersed with periods of unemployment since leaving university
in Glasgow.
I went down to London for a year but I was too young (21) to make a go
of it so I came back up North to rot.
By the time I got to 26 (1993) I started to get sick of it and decided
to try to emigrate. I looked at Australia, USA and Canada. Canada and
Australia looked the easiest in that order. I didn't think I'd make it
to emigrate to the US and I decided Australia was just too far away. I
applied to Canada June 1994 and lo and behold I was accepted and
received my landing papers in October 1994. I landed in October and
couldn't find a job in my field. So I became a commission only sales
person. I stayed doing that for two years even though it was shit
financially even worse than in the UK. The difference was that my life
sucked in the UK but in Canada things were at least different. In 1996
I got a job contracting as a programmer and between 1996 till 2001 I
made a lot of money, bought a house, got married, had a son. End of
2001 I couldn't find any more contracts and I had the choice of
accepting a full time job or terminating my contract. I chose to
terminate the contract and return to the UK for a year.
I went back to the UK and found a job easily and while I did a lot
better than before financially due to the experience I had gained out
in Canada but I guess during the long time I have been in Canada I
have become more Canadianized than I thought so when I was made
redundant in the UK in February 2003 I decided to try Canada again. I
had no illusions since I was taking a big chance, having only enough
money to last for a couple of months at the most. For almost six weeks
it was like knocking my head against a brick wall. All the doors were
closed and I got nowhere, only one interview and I made a lot of
effort to find work. On the thursday of week six I decided to throw in
the towel and return back to the UK where the economy seems to be a
bit better even if the lifestyle sucks, so I took the money out of the
bank to bring the flights forward to Saturday. I thought "Why the hell
am I wasting what little money I have left when I can get a job easily
in the UK?"
The next day I got a call from an ex-boss and I was working on the
Monday.
That was two months ago. I have a six month contract and I don't care
one way or the other whether I have to return in six months to the UK
or whether I stay.
If my contract is extended I will probably stay but if not, I will go
back.
I would say that on balance I would prefer to be in Canada than in the
UK but if I have to bust my balls for years on end just to have an
average lifestyle I don't think it's worth it. Contrary to popular
Canadian opinion it seems to be much easier to get a job in the UK
than in Canada and that's even without contacts and networking. In the
good times it took me about six to eight weeks to get a new contract
(between 1996 and 2000) in Canada. In the UK in 2002 it took me three
weeks to get a new job and that's in Glasgow and supposedly Glasgow
has a shit economy.
Repeating: If I have to bulls my balls just to break even forget it.
The difference in lifestyle is not great enough. For me what it comes
down to is the weather, outdoor lifestyle and better restaurants and
that's about it.
> I don't want to wait till I grow old to
> make a decision. So I would like to
> hear some of your "Canadian experience"
> stories.
Look, a lot of it is up to you. Right now it's not easy, but then, if
you look back through postings on this newsgroup, there were people
whining even during the good times. I can tell you my own condensed
story:
I wasn't doing too well financially in the UK, I had a dead end shit
job interspersed with periods of unemployment since leaving university
in Glasgow.
I went down to London for a year but I was too young (21) to make a go
of it so I came back up North to rot.
By the time I got to 26 (1993) I started to get sick of it and decided
to try to emigrate. I looked at Australia, USA and Canada. Canada and
Australia looked the easiest in that order. I didn't think I'd make it
to emigrate to the US and I decided Australia was just too far away. I
applied to Canada June 1994 and lo and behold I was accepted and
received my landing papers in October 1994. I landed in October and
couldn't find a job in my field. So I became a commission only sales
person. I stayed doing that for two years even though it was shit
financially even worse than in the UK. The difference was that my life
sucked in the UK but in Canada things were at least different. In 1996
I got a job contracting as a programmer and between 1996 till 2001 I
made a lot of money, bought a house, got married, had a son. End of
2001 I couldn't find any more contracts and I had the choice of
accepting a full time job or terminating my contract. I chose to
terminate the contract and return to the UK for a year.
I went back to the UK and found a job easily and while I did a lot
better than before financially due to the experience I had gained out
in Canada but I guess during the long time I have been in Canada I
have become more Canadianized than I thought so when I was made
redundant in the UK in February 2003 I decided to try Canada again. I
had no illusions since I was taking a big chance, having only enough
money to last for a couple of months at the most. For almost six weeks
it was like knocking my head against a brick wall. All the doors were
closed and I got nowhere, only one interview and I made a lot of
effort to find work. On the thursday of week six I decided to throw in
the towel and return back to the UK where the economy seems to be a
bit better even if the lifestyle sucks, so I took the money out of the
bank to bring the flights forward to Saturday. I thought "Why the hell
am I wasting what little money I have left when I can get a job easily
in the UK?"
The next day I got a call from an ex-boss and I was working on the
Monday.
That was two months ago. I have a six month contract and I don't care
one way or the other whether I have to return in six months to the UK
or whether I stay.
If my contract is extended I will probably stay but if not, I will go
back.
I would say that on balance I would prefer to be in Canada than in the
UK but if I have to bust my balls for years on end just to have an
average lifestyle I don't think it's worth it. Contrary to popular
Canadian opinion it seems to be much easier to get a job in the UK
than in Canada and that's even without contacts and networking. In the
good times it took me about six to eight weeks to get a new contract
(between 1996 and 2000) in Canada. In the UK in 2002 it took me three
weeks to get a new job and that's in Glasgow and supposedly Glasgow
has a shit economy.
Repeating: If I have to bulls my balls just to break even forget it.
The difference in lifestyle is not great enough. For me what it comes
down to is the weather, outdoor lifestyle and better restaurants and
that's about it.
May 17th 2003, 12:19 am
#3
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Undecided about Canada
Australia would be a better choice for anybody I heard.
>Subject: Re: Undecided about Canada
>From: [email protected] (Bodza Bodza)
>Date: 5/16/03 6:03 PM Atlantic Daylight Time
>Message-id:
>[email protected] (RandiB) wrote:
>> I don't want to wait till I grow old to
>> make a decision. So I would like to
>> hear some of your "Canadian experience"
>> stories.
>Look, a lot of it is up to you. Right now it's not easy, but then, if
>you look back through postings on this newsgroup, there were people
>whining even during the good times. I can tell you my own condensed
>story:
>I wasn't doing too well financially in the UK, I had a dead end shit
>job interspersed with periods of unemployment since leaving university
>in Glasgow.
>I went down to London for a year but I was too young (21) to make a go
>of it so I came back up North to rot.
>By the time I got to 26 (1993) I started to get sick of it and decided
>to try to emigrate. I looked at Australia, USA and Canada. Canada and
>Australia looked the easiest in that order. I didn't think I'd make it
>to emigrate to the US and I decided Australia was just too far away. I
>applied to Canada June 1994 and lo and behold I was accepted and
>received my landing papers in October 1994. I landed in October and
>couldn't find a job in my field. So I became a commission only sales
>person. I stayed doing that for two years even though it was shit
>financially even worse than in the UK. The difference was that my life
>sucked in the UK but in Canada things were at least different. In 1996
>I got a job contracting as a programmer and between 1996 till 2001 I
>made a lot of money, bought a house, got married, had a son. End of
>2001 I couldn't find any more contracts and I had the choice of
>accepting a full time job or terminating my contract. I chose to
>terminate the contract and return to the UK for a year.
>I went back to the UK and found a job easily and while I did a lot
>better than before financially due to the experience I had gained out
>in Canada but I guess during the long time I have been in Canada I
>have become more Canadianized than I thought so when I was made
>redundant in the UK in February 2003 I decided to try Canada again. I
>had no illusions since I was taking a big chance, having only enough
>money to last for a couple of months at the most. For almost six weeks
>it was like knocking my head against a brick wall. All the doors were
>closed and I got nowhere, only one interview and I made a lot of
>effort to find work. On the thursday of week six I decided to throw in
>the towel and return back to the UK where the economy seems to be a
>bit better even if the lifestyle sucks, so I took the money out of the
>bank to bring the flights forward to Saturday. I thought "Why the hell
>am I wasting what little money I have left when I can get a job easily
>in the UK?"
>Subject: Re: Undecided about Canada
>From: [email protected] (Bodza Bodza)
>Date: 5/16/03 6:03 PM Atlantic Daylight Time
>Message-id:
>[email protected] (RandiB) wrote:
>> I don't want to wait till I grow old to
>> make a decision. So I would like to
>> hear some of your "Canadian experience"
>> stories.
>Look, a lot of it is up to you. Right now it's not easy, but then, if
>you look back through postings on this newsgroup, there were people
>whining even during the good times. I can tell you my own condensed
>story:
>I wasn't doing too well financially in the UK, I had a dead end shit
>job interspersed with periods of unemployment since leaving university
>in Glasgow.
>I went down to London for a year but I was too young (21) to make a go
>of it so I came back up North to rot.
>By the time I got to 26 (1993) I started to get sick of it and decided
>to try to emigrate. I looked at Australia, USA and Canada. Canada and
>Australia looked the easiest in that order. I didn't think I'd make it
>to emigrate to the US and I decided Australia was just too far away. I
>applied to Canada June 1994 and lo and behold I was accepted and
>received my landing papers in October 1994. I landed in October and
>couldn't find a job in my field. So I became a commission only sales
>person. I stayed doing that for two years even though it was shit
>financially even worse than in the UK. The difference was that my life
>sucked in the UK but in Canada things were at least different. In 1996
>I got a job contracting as a programmer and between 1996 till 2001 I
>made a lot of money, bought a house, got married, had a son. End of
>2001 I couldn't find any more contracts and I had the choice of
>accepting a full time job or terminating my contract. I chose to
>terminate the contract and return to the UK for a year.
>I went back to the UK and found a job easily and while I did a lot
>better than before financially due to the experience I had gained out
>in Canada but I guess during the long time I have been in Canada I
>have become more Canadianized than I thought so when I was made
>redundant in the UK in February 2003 I decided to try Canada again. I
>had no illusions since I was taking a big chance, having only enough
>money to last for a couple of months at the most. For almost six weeks
>it was like knocking my head against a brick wall. All the doors were
>closed and I got nowhere, only one interview and I made a lot of
>effort to find work. On the thursday of week six I decided to throw in
>the towel and return back to the UK where the economy seems to be a
>bit better even if the lifestyle sucks, so I took the money out of the
>bank to bring the flights forward to Saturday. I thought "Why the hell
>am I wasting what little money I have left when I can get a job easily
>in the UK?"
May 17th 2003, 3:56 am
#4
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Undecided about Canada
[email protected] (Bodza Bodza) wrote in message news:...
> Look, a lot of it is up to you. Right now it's not easy, but then, if
> you look back through postings on this newsgroup, there were people
> whining even during the good times. I can tell you my own condensed
> story:
>
> Repeating: If I have to bulls my balls just to break even forget it.
> The difference in lifestyle is not great enough. For me what it comes
> down to is the weather, outdoor lifestyle and better restaurants and
> that's about it.
That's fair enough. I perfectly understand you because I fit
in the same 'average' category and my (very limited) image
of Canada is very close to yours.
BTW, good story. I am now thinking why nobody took some time
to gather all these stories from this ng and make a booklet
to accompany the one you receive from CIC. It will give a
more balanced view, down-to-earth, of 'Living in Canada'.
Cheers,
Randi
> Look, a lot of it is up to you. Right now it's not easy, but then, if
> you look back through postings on this newsgroup, there were people
> whining even during the good times. I can tell you my own condensed
> story:
>
> Repeating: If I have to bulls my balls just to break even forget it.
> The difference in lifestyle is not great enough. For me what it comes
> down to is the weather, outdoor lifestyle and better restaurants and
> that's about it.
That's fair enough. I perfectly understand you because I fit
in the same 'average' category and my (very limited) image
of Canada is very close to yours.
BTW, good story. I am now thinking why nobody took some time
to gather all these stories from this ng and make a booklet
to accompany the one you receive from CIC. It will give a
more balanced view, down-to-earth, of 'Living in Canada'.
Cheers,
Randi
May 17th 2003, 7:26 pm
#5
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Undecided about Canada
Hi everyone,
It's really interesting hearing all your stories.
We currently live in the UK, Cambridge. My husband is a Police Officer and I
run my own hairdressing business. We all went to Canada (Ontario) last
summer (including my 3 kids) to stay with my husband's sister and her
Canadian husband and 2 kids.
We fell in love with Canada, and have decided to apply to emigrate there.
Our friends think we're mad making such a drastic move and uprooting on the
basis of a 2 week holiday! Maybe we are!
For us it isn't about bad luck in the UK, infact, quite the contrary, we
have been successful in our jobs and our lifestyle here. We were lucky that
we bought our house at the right time in a sought after area and it has
nearly trebled in value(at the moment anyway). We live 4 miles outside of
Cambridge, and I admit that we love our life here, Cambridge has so much to
offer, good restaurants, beautiful Universities and culture.
Our two main reasons for trying out Canada is to be closer to my sister and
brother-in laws and to improve our lifestyle (hopefully). What I love about
Canada is the space! In England it gets very claustrophobic, every house
that's affordable is backing onto another one, we have a few nice parks, but
not a patch on Canada! We dream of having a decent size detached house,
where we can walk down to a beautiful lake, I feel that is within our reach
in Canada but certainly not in the UK, that sort of house would be in excess
of £300,000 and the weather would never allow you to spend much time on the
beach anyway!
I feel Canadians seem to enjoy life, they seem far more relaxed, but maybe
that's just the feel I got from the circle of friends I met out there, but
we were made to feel extremely welcome. I loved the hot weather, summers are
crap in England, when you get a hot day in England, everyone charges to the
coast, so you sit in 3 hours of traffic, can't find a decent place to sit on
the beach when you finally arrive and if you're lucky you may find a cafe
where you and the kids can have a plate of greasy chips for under £20!
We are ready for a change, our kids will never be able to afford a house in
the UK the way things are going, I'm looking forward to camping without it
pissing down with rain! I like the idea of "nipping" across to America and
seeing some sites. I'm slightly apprehensive about Canadian winters, but I'm
definitely going to try skiing and I'm sure Canada is well geared up for the
snow, it's not enough for me at the moment to change my mind, maybe I will
when we are snowed in our house for two weeks!
If my husband is successful in joining the Ontario Police his earnings will
be substantially higher after 3 years than in the UK and he would receive
health and dental cover for all the family, he could work in the police
until he's 65 (55 in the uk), even though he will have to start at the
bottom again, we think it'll be worth it. As for me, I'm happy to work in a
Hair Salon again and maybe I'll start my own business again once I've
settled. I suppose if our jobs don't work out how we think they will, then
that would be a problem. So we're keeping our fingers crossed that we could
still earn a fairly decent living to support a house and 3 children.
I must admit we're a bit scared, until we actually live the life, we won't
know, but our gut feeling is steering us towards Canada. I reckon it'll be a
good 2 years before we're accepted anyway, that gives us a bit more time to
go back and explore our new venture!
It's very interesting hearing all your stories, good luck wherever you
choose to settle.
"RandiB" wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
[email protected] (Bodza Bodza) wrote in message
news:...
> Look, a lot of it is up to you. Right now it's not easy, but then, if
> you look back through postings on this newsgroup, there were people
> whining even during the good times. I can tell you my own condensed
> story:
> Repeating: If I have to bulls my balls just to break even forget it.
> The difference in lifestyle is not great enough. For me what it comes
> down to is the weather, outdoor lifestyle and better restaurants and
> that's about it.
That's fair enough. I perfectly understand you because I fit
in the same 'average' category and my (very limited) image
of Canada is very close to yours.
BTW, good story. I am now thinking why nobody took some time
to gather all these stories from this ng and make a booklet
to accompany the one you receive from CIC. It will give a
more balanced view, down-to-earth, of 'Living in Canada'.
Cheers,
Randi
It's really interesting hearing all your stories.
We currently live in the UK, Cambridge. My husband is a Police Officer and I
run my own hairdressing business. We all went to Canada (Ontario) last
summer (including my 3 kids) to stay with my husband's sister and her
Canadian husband and 2 kids.
We fell in love with Canada, and have decided to apply to emigrate there.
Our friends think we're mad making such a drastic move and uprooting on the
basis of a 2 week holiday! Maybe we are!
For us it isn't about bad luck in the UK, infact, quite the contrary, we
have been successful in our jobs and our lifestyle here. We were lucky that
we bought our house at the right time in a sought after area and it has
nearly trebled in value(at the moment anyway). We live 4 miles outside of
Cambridge, and I admit that we love our life here, Cambridge has so much to
offer, good restaurants, beautiful Universities and culture.
Our two main reasons for trying out Canada is to be closer to my sister and
brother-in laws and to improve our lifestyle (hopefully). What I love about
Canada is the space! In England it gets very claustrophobic, every house
that's affordable is backing onto another one, we have a few nice parks, but
not a patch on Canada! We dream of having a decent size detached house,
where we can walk down to a beautiful lake, I feel that is within our reach
in Canada but certainly not in the UK, that sort of house would be in excess
of £300,000 and the weather would never allow you to spend much time on the
beach anyway!
I feel Canadians seem to enjoy life, they seem far more relaxed, but maybe
that's just the feel I got from the circle of friends I met out there, but
we were made to feel extremely welcome. I loved the hot weather, summers are
crap in England, when you get a hot day in England, everyone charges to the
coast, so you sit in 3 hours of traffic, can't find a decent place to sit on
the beach when you finally arrive and if you're lucky you may find a cafe
where you and the kids can have a plate of greasy chips for under £20!
We are ready for a change, our kids will never be able to afford a house in
the UK the way things are going, I'm looking forward to camping without it
pissing down with rain! I like the idea of "nipping" across to America and
seeing some sites. I'm slightly apprehensive about Canadian winters, but I'm
definitely going to try skiing and I'm sure Canada is well geared up for the
snow, it's not enough for me at the moment to change my mind, maybe I will
when we are snowed in our house for two weeks!
If my husband is successful in joining the Ontario Police his earnings will
be substantially higher after 3 years than in the UK and he would receive
health and dental cover for all the family, he could work in the police
until he's 65 (55 in the uk), even though he will have to start at the
bottom again, we think it'll be worth it. As for me, I'm happy to work in a
Hair Salon again and maybe I'll start my own business again once I've
settled. I suppose if our jobs don't work out how we think they will, then
that would be a problem. So we're keeping our fingers crossed that we could
still earn a fairly decent living to support a house and 3 children.
I must admit we're a bit scared, until we actually live the life, we won't
know, but our gut feeling is steering us towards Canada. I reckon it'll be a
good 2 years before we're accepted anyway, that gives us a bit more time to
go back and explore our new venture!
It's very interesting hearing all your stories, good luck wherever you
choose to settle.
"RandiB" wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
[email protected] (Bodza Bodza) wrote in message
news:...
> Look, a lot of it is up to you. Right now it's not easy, but then, if
> you look back through postings on this newsgroup, there were people
> whining even during the good times. I can tell you my own condensed
> story:
> Repeating: If I have to bulls my balls just to break even forget it.
> The difference in lifestyle is not great enough. For me what it comes
> down to is the weather, outdoor lifestyle and better restaurants and
> that's about it.
That's fair enough. I perfectly understand you because I fit
in the same 'average' category and my (very limited) image
of Canada is very close to yours.
BTW, good story. I am now thinking why nobody took some time
to gather all these stories from this ng and make a booklet
to accompany the one you receive from CIC. It will give a
more balanced view, down-to-earth, of 'Living in Canada'.
Cheers,
Randi
May 17th 2003, 10:06 pm
#6
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Undecided about Canada
getting canadian citizenship and go to Arizona seems like a good plan.....
money talks.....
"RandiB" wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> I've been following this ng for quite a
> long time and I still cannot make up my
> mind about Canada. Green pasture, jumping point
> for US, US backyard, Land of Opportunity,
> social-democracy, safe streets, you name it. Many like it
> there, some whine, a few even hate it.
> I am holding a PR but I work in another country (not US).
> When I landed in Vancouver to activate my status I had
> the opportunity to discuss with some
> people with a similar background and
> country of origin as mine. I felt a bit
> dissapointed with their stories. As for me, I saw
> drug addicts in downtown, a lot of white people
> that looked weird (I am white also), condominiums
> that looked teleported from Florida or Hawaii. Rather
> strange world, I thought. On the
> other hand one of my best friends is a
> success story in a high-tech company in
> Canada. Millionaire, etc. Another one
> took the citizenship and flew to Arizona.
> So, to finally decide which way to go,
> I started reading online Canadian
> newspapers, newsgroups, etc. To no avail.
> I don't want to wait till I grow old to
> make a decision. So I would like to
> hear some of your "Canadian experience"
> stories. For good or the bad.
> I know this sounds a bit pathetic. Just
> take it easy, please.
> Thanks,
> Randi
money talks.....
"RandiB" wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> I've been following this ng for quite a
> long time and I still cannot make up my
> mind about Canada. Green pasture, jumping point
> for US, US backyard, Land of Opportunity,
> social-democracy, safe streets, you name it. Many like it
> there, some whine, a few even hate it.
> I am holding a PR but I work in another country (not US).
> When I landed in Vancouver to activate my status I had
> the opportunity to discuss with some
> people with a similar background and
> country of origin as mine. I felt a bit
> dissapointed with their stories. As for me, I saw
> drug addicts in downtown, a lot of white people
> that looked weird (I am white also), condominiums
> that looked teleported from Florida or Hawaii. Rather
> strange world, I thought. On the
> other hand one of my best friends is a
> success story in a high-tech company in
> Canada. Millionaire, etc. Another one
> took the citizenship and flew to Arizona.
> So, to finally decide which way to go,
> I started reading online Canadian
> newspapers, newsgroups, etc. To no avail.
> I don't want to wait till I grow old to
> make a decision. So I would like to
> hear some of your "Canadian experience"
> stories. For good or the bad.
> I know this sounds a bit pathetic. Just
> take it easy, please.
> Thanks,
> Randi
May 19th 2003, 9:57 am
#7
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Undecided about Canada
Hi Diablo
Bodza's given you some pretty good information on Canada. Just for
comparison, properly trained and certified hairdressers are high on
Australia's priority list for migration - so that might also be an
alternative.
Jeremy
>On Tue, 20 May 2003 00:24:13 +0100, "Diablo ²°°²" wrote:
>Bodza,
>Thankyou for your informative reply to my last post.
>I am very interested to hear of your experiences in Canada and it's
>comparisons to the UK.
>I have been in touch with a Hairdressing Salon 30 mins from Barrie, Ontario.
>I explained that I have 17 years experience and I explained that I went to
>College and have City & Guilds in Hairdressing.
This is not intended to be legal advice in any jurisdiction
Bodza's given you some pretty good information on Canada. Just for
comparison, properly trained and certified hairdressers are high on
Australia's priority list for migration - so that might also be an
alternative.
Jeremy
>On Tue, 20 May 2003 00:24:13 +0100, "Diablo ²°°²" wrote:
>Bodza,
>Thankyou for your informative reply to my last post.
>I am very interested to hear of your experiences in Canada and it's
>comparisons to the UK.
>I have been in touch with a Hairdressing Salon 30 mins from Barrie, Ontario.
>I explained that I have 17 years experience and I explained that I went to
>College and have City & Guilds in Hairdressing.
This is not intended to be legal advice in any jurisdiction
May 19th 2003, 7:22 pm
#8
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Undecided about Canada
"Diablo ²°°²" wrote:
> We fell in love with Canada, and have decided to apply to emigrate there.
> Our friends think we're mad making such a drastic move and uprooting on the
> basis of a 2 week holiday! Maybe we are!
No, you're not. I also decided to emigrate based on visiting once for
two weeks.
But bear in mind one thing very important: You, unlike me, when I went
to Canada, have a lot to lose. You *could* potentially not get a job
at all and end up spending all your savings. Balancing that out,
though I think that a Police Officer and a Hairdresser have a better
chance than Computer Programmers at the moment. Bear in mind, that
your husband may have to go through the training course again and you
*definitely* will. My wife was looking at becoming a hairdresser in
Toronto and like almost everything else, you have to get accredited
first, in the accredited hairstylists of Ontario. The course is about
$10,000 (dollars). That's probably not that much though, if you
already have significant equity in your home in England. For us, it
was prohibitively expensive, because we are in nowhere near as good
financial shape as you are.
We have a lot less to lose :->
> For us it isn't about bad luck in the UK, infact, quite the contrary, we
> have been successful in our jobs and our lifestyle here. We were lucky that
> we bought our house at the right time in a sought after area and it has
> nearly trebled in value(at the moment anyway). We live 4 miles outside of
> Cambridge, and I admit that we love our life here, Cambridge has so much to
> offer, good restaurants, beautiful Universities and culture.
It's totally different. I've been to Cambridge and I can get an idea
of what you're talking about.
> Our two main reasons for trying out Canada is to be closer to my sister and
> brother-in laws and to improve our lifestyle (hopefully). What I love about
> Canada is the space! In England it gets very claustrophobic, every house
> that's affordable is backing onto another one, we have a few nice parks, but
> not a patch on Canada!
I think you're possibly too enamoured here and I feel it is my duty to
give you a more balanced point of view.. Toronto is very claustrophoic
too, especially when you're trying to get home from downtown when the
traffic is jammed. Or *every* day if you're trying to get to work.
Also, the *older* houses in Canada have lots of space, but in the
newer subdivisions they are built right on top of each other, just
like the good old UK. As for the parks, there *are* some, but then
again, that is also the case in the UK. I'm from Glasgow and quite
honestly, I think the parks there are much better than Canadian parks.
>We dream of having a decent size detached house,
> where we can walk down to a beautiful lake, I feel that is within our reach
> in Canada but certainly not in the UK, that sort of house would be in excess
> of £300,000 and the weather would never allow you to spend much time on the
> beach anyway!
A house like you're talking about near the lake could potentially be
in the same price range. You will get a much larger house for your
money than in the UK but maybe not the location you want or as much
back yard as you might hope for. The size of the houses are pretty
big, but the size of the back yards are pretty much the same as in the
UK, that is unless you can stretch to buying in an older neighborhood
(but expect to pay $400K+)
> I feel Canadians seem to enjoy life, they seem far more relaxed, but maybe
> that's just the feel I got from the circle of friends I met out there, but
> we were made to feel extremely welcome.
Maybe, I was back living in Glasgow for a year and I can say than the
Scots are much more relaxed than the Canadians. Here everyone is
uptight and it's work, work, work and money, money, money and everyone
seems to be angry and stressed out all the time. People don't even
take the time to say hello here. If you noticed the opposite then I
think the English must be incredibly uptight to beat the Canadians.
>I loved the hot weather, summers are
> crap in England, when you get a hot day in England, everyone charges to the
> coast, so you sit in 3 hours of traffic, can't find a decent place to sit on
> the beach when you finally arrive and if you're lucky you may find a cafe
> where you and the kids can have a plate of greasy chips for under £20!
This is definitely true. Weekends in the summer here are amazing.
That's probably why nobody cares that flights to holiday destinations
are so expensive. Why go anywhere else?
The Toronto Zoo is fabulous. I've only been to the London Zoo, The
Glasgow and the Edinburgh Zoo, but the Toronto one beats them all
hands down. It is an amazing day out for the kids.
Canada's wonderland is also excellent though I find it a touch pricey.
There is also Six Flags Darien Lake just across the border, close to
Buffalo.
There is also an excellent waterpark in Brampton which is a brilliant
relaxing way to enjoy a hot weekend. One thing, though, all these
places are equally as crowded as anywhere you might find in the UK.
Restaurants, however is one thing that beats the UK hands down. One of
the best, most excellent things about Canada is that it is
multicultural and that you can get restaurants from literally every
corner of the globe. Toronto even beats London hands down on that one.
I love the restaurants in Canada. Even the fast food has gazillions of
choices. Yes, this one makes a *massive* difference to your lifestyle.
When we were back living in Glasgow in 2002, I think we ate out maybe
once every two months because I balked at the prices (most restaurants
were 10 pounds a head or more) and the quality and variety just wasn't
that great compared to what I was used to in Toronto. Emphatically YES
here.
> We are ready for a change, our kids will never be able to afford a house in
> the UK the way things are going,
That's another story, although I'm not sure that our own kids will be
able to afford a house in Canada without too many compromises either.
In fact, in that aspect, Canada is *worse* than the UK. In order to
afford a house here, you typically need two incomes per family. That
has caused the birth rate here to plummet below replacement levels.
Without immigration at 1% of the population per year, the Canadian
population would be in decline. In the maternity wards, the only ones
having children are the immigrants or the poor and reckless. Affording
a house large enough for two children is simply too expensive.
> I'm looking forward to camping without it
> pissing down with rain!
This is definitely true although I need to point out that you will be
camping with mosquitoes. But the scenery is amazing.
>I like the idea of "nipping" across to America and
> seeing some sites.
Also bear in mind the distances are so large that if you are in
Toronto you can reach Buffalo/Niagara easily in a day and go back,
otherwise you are a *long* way away. You are 10 hours to New York, 14
hours to Chicago, six hours to Cleveland, 10 hours to Philadelphia, 24
hours to Florida, Four days to California/Texas. Three days to Las
Vegas. Flying is not cheap either. There is no easyjet or ryanair here
so you are paying $400+ per person to fly almost anywhere. Last minute
deals, counter-intuitively are *more* expensive than booking in
advance.
Honestly speaking, I seriously doubt you'll be doing as much
travelling to different parts of the States unless you're prepared to
spend a bit of cash.
Also you won't get enough vacation time to be able to visit often even
if you are prepared to spend the cash. I had six weeks vacation last
year and maybe SEVEN WEEKS all in in the eight years I was there.
>I'm slightly apprehensive about Canadian winters, but I'm
> definitely going to try skiing and I'm sure Canada is well geared up for the
> snow, it's not enough for me at the moment to change my mind, maybe I will
> when we are snowed in our house for two weeks!
That's never going to happen. The worst that happens is it takes a few
hours for the snow ploughs to come round. I've *never* been snowed in
the house in Canada, and that's including when three feet of snow has
fallen. The worst case scenario is that the snow-ploughs are busy
clearing the highways and you have to fend for yourselves, but as soon
as you get out of your own subdivision and onto the main streets they
are clear. So don't worry about the snow. You also get used to the
cold, but the winters are long...
> If my husband is successful in joining the Ontario Police his earnings will
> be substantially higher after 3 years than in the UK and he would receive
> health and dental cover for all the family, he could work in the police
> until he's 65 (55 in the uk), even though he will have to start at the
> bottom again, we think it'll be worth it. As for me, I'm happy to work in a
> Hair Salon again and maybe I'll start my own business again once I've
> settled. I suppose if our jobs don't work out how we think they will, then
> that would be a problem. So we're keeping our fingers crossed that we could
> still earn a fairly decent living to support a house and 3 children.
If you are both earning and you have a sizeable deposit to pay a huge
chunk of your mortgage you will be able to live a decent middle class
lifestyle.
i.e. 4 bedroom house in the suburbs, two *big* cars, barbecues at the
weekend, eating out a couple times a month, cable tv, internet etc.
In that aspect you will be better off than the vast majority of
Canadians.
BTW Don't let my negatives to balance your positives put you off.
Canada is not paradise on Earth, but it has some pretty good
advantages, over all, the summer.
> We fell in love with Canada, and have decided to apply to emigrate there.
> Our friends think we're mad making such a drastic move and uprooting on the
> basis of a 2 week holiday! Maybe we are!
No, you're not. I also decided to emigrate based on visiting once for
two weeks.
But bear in mind one thing very important: You, unlike me, when I went
to Canada, have a lot to lose. You *could* potentially not get a job
at all and end up spending all your savings. Balancing that out,
though I think that a Police Officer and a Hairdresser have a better
chance than Computer Programmers at the moment. Bear in mind, that
your husband may have to go through the training course again and you
*definitely* will. My wife was looking at becoming a hairdresser in
Toronto and like almost everything else, you have to get accredited
first, in the accredited hairstylists of Ontario. The course is about
$10,000 (dollars). That's probably not that much though, if you
already have significant equity in your home in England. For us, it
was prohibitively expensive, because we are in nowhere near as good
financial shape as you are.
We have a lot less to lose :->
> For us it isn't about bad luck in the UK, infact, quite the contrary, we
> have been successful in our jobs and our lifestyle here. We were lucky that
> we bought our house at the right time in a sought after area and it has
> nearly trebled in value(at the moment anyway). We live 4 miles outside of
> Cambridge, and I admit that we love our life here, Cambridge has so much to
> offer, good restaurants, beautiful Universities and culture.
It's totally different. I've been to Cambridge and I can get an idea
of what you're talking about.
> Our two main reasons for trying out Canada is to be closer to my sister and
> brother-in laws and to improve our lifestyle (hopefully). What I love about
> Canada is the space! In England it gets very claustrophobic, every house
> that's affordable is backing onto another one, we have a few nice parks, but
> not a patch on Canada!
I think you're possibly too enamoured here and I feel it is my duty to
give you a more balanced point of view.. Toronto is very claustrophoic
too, especially when you're trying to get home from downtown when the
traffic is jammed. Or *every* day if you're trying to get to work.
Also, the *older* houses in Canada have lots of space, but in the
newer subdivisions they are built right on top of each other, just
like the good old UK. As for the parks, there *are* some, but then
again, that is also the case in the UK. I'm from Glasgow and quite
honestly, I think the parks there are much better than Canadian parks.
>We dream of having a decent size detached house,
> where we can walk down to a beautiful lake, I feel that is within our reach
> in Canada but certainly not in the UK, that sort of house would be in excess
> of £300,000 and the weather would never allow you to spend much time on the
> beach anyway!
A house like you're talking about near the lake could potentially be
in the same price range. You will get a much larger house for your
money than in the UK but maybe not the location you want or as much
back yard as you might hope for. The size of the houses are pretty
big, but the size of the back yards are pretty much the same as in the
UK, that is unless you can stretch to buying in an older neighborhood
(but expect to pay $400K+)
> I feel Canadians seem to enjoy life, they seem far more relaxed, but maybe
> that's just the feel I got from the circle of friends I met out there, but
> we were made to feel extremely welcome.
Maybe, I was back living in Glasgow for a year and I can say than the
Scots are much more relaxed than the Canadians. Here everyone is
uptight and it's work, work, work and money, money, money and everyone
seems to be angry and stressed out all the time. People don't even
take the time to say hello here. If you noticed the opposite then I
think the English must be incredibly uptight to beat the Canadians.
>I loved the hot weather, summers are
> crap in England, when you get a hot day in England, everyone charges to the
> coast, so you sit in 3 hours of traffic, can't find a decent place to sit on
> the beach when you finally arrive and if you're lucky you may find a cafe
> where you and the kids can have a plate of greasy chips for under £20!
This is definitely true. Weekends in the summer here are amazing.
That's probably why nobody cares that flights to holiday destinations
are so expensive. Why go anywhere else?
The Toronto Zoo is fabulous. I've only been to the London Zoo, The
Glasgow and the Edinburgh Zoo, but the Toronto one beats them all
hands down. It is an amazing day out for the kids.
Canada's wonderland is also excellent though I find it a touch pricey.
There is also Six Flags Darien Lake just across the border, close to
Buffalo.
There is also an excellent waterpark in Brampton which is a brilliant
relaxing way to enjoy a hot weekend. One thing, though, all these
places are equally as crowded as anywhere you might find in the UK.
Restaurants, however is one thing that beats the UK hands down. One of
the best, most excellent things about Canada is that it is
multicultural and that you can get restaurants from literally every
corner of the globe. Toronto even beats London hands down on that one.
I love the restaurants in Canada. Even the fast food has gazillions of
choices. Yes, this one makes a *massive* difference to your lifestyle.
When we were back living in Glasgow in 2002, I think we ate out maybe
once every two months because I balked at the prices (most restaurants
were 10 pounds a head or more) and the quality and variety just wasn't
that great compared to what I was used to in Toronto. Emphatically YES
here.
> We are ready for a change, our kids will never be able to afford a house in
> the UK the way things are going,
That's another story, although I'm not sure that our own kids will be
able to afford a house in Canada without too many compromises either.
In fact, in that aspect, Canada is *worse* than the UK. In order to
afford a house here, you typically need two incomes per family. That
has caused the birth rate here to plummet below replacement levels.
Without immigration at 1% of the population per year, the Canadian
population would be in decline. In the maternity wards, the only ones
having children are the immigrants or the poor and reckless. Affording
a house large enough for two children is simply too expensive.
> I'm looking forward to camping without it
> pissing down with rain!
This is definitely true although I need to point out that you will be
camping with mosquitoes. But the scenery is amazing.
>I like the idea of "nipping" across to America and
> seeing some sites.
Also bear in mind the distances are so large that if you are in
Toronto you can reach Buffalo/Niagara easily in a day and go back,
otherwise you are a *long* way away. You are 10 hours to New York, 14
hours to Chicago, six hours to Cleveland, 10 hours to Philadelphia, 24
hours to Florida, Four days to California/Texas. Three days to Las
Vegas. Flying is not cheap either. There is no easyjet or ryanair here
so you are paying $400+ per person to fly almost anywhere. Last minute
deals, counter-intuitively are *more* expensive than booking in
advance.
Honestly speaking, I seriously doubt you'll be doing as much
travelling to different parts of the States unless you're prepared to
spend a bit of cash.
Also you won't get enough vacation time to be able to visit often even
if you are prepared to spend the cash. I had six weeks vacation last
year and maybe SEVEN WEEKS all in in the eight years I was there.
>I'm slightly apprehensive about Canadian winters, but I'm
> definitely going to try skiing and I'm sure Canada is well geared up for the
> snow, it's not enough for me at the moment to change my mind, maybe I will
> when we are snowed in our house for two weeks!
That's never going to happen. The worst that happens is it takes a few
hours for the snow ploughs to come round. I've *never* been snowed in
the house in Canada, and that's including when three feet of snow has
fallen. The worst case scenario is that the snow-ploughs are busy
clearing the highways and you have to fend for yourselves, but as soon
as you get out of your own subdivision and onto the main streets they
are clear. So don't worry about the snow. You also get used to the
cold, but the winters are long...
> If my husband is successful in joining the Ontario Police his earnings will
> be substantially higher after 3 years than in the UK and he would receive
> health and dental cover for all the family, he could work in the police
> until he's 65 (55 in the uk), even though he will have to start at the
> bottom again, we think it'll be worth it. As for me, I'm happy to work in a
> Hair Salon again and maybe I'll start my own business again once I've
> settled. I suppose if our jobs don't work out how we think they will, then
> that would be a problem. So we're keeping our fingers crossed that we could
> still earn a fairly decent living to support a house and 3 children.
If you are both earning and you have a sizeable deposit to pay a huge
chunk of your mortgage you will be able to live a decent middle class
lifestyle.
i.e. 4 bedroom house in the suburbs, two *big* cars, barbecues at the
weekend, eating out a couple times a month, cable tv, internet etc.
In that aspect you will be better off than the vast majority of
Canadians.
BTW Don't let my negatives to balance your positives put you off.
Canada is not paradise on Earth, but it has some pretty good
advantages, over all, the summer.
May 19th 2003, 11:24 pm
#9
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Undecided about Canada
Bodza,
Thankyou for your informative reply to my last post.
I am very interested to hear of your experiences in Canada and it's
comparisons to the UK.
I have been in touch with a Hairdressing Salon 30 mins from Barrie, Ontario.
I explained that I have 17 years experience and I explained that I went to
College and have City & Guilds in Hairdressing. They have expressed some
interest and I have arranged to go in for a chat when I'm there this summer.
Correct me if I'm wrong, but I'm sure Canada recognise City & Guilds
qualifications as proof of my skills, I did have a brief look at what
qualifications are required and I seem to recall College Training as one of
them. However, I would be prepared to do the Ontario course to get
accredited, but it does seem a waste of time and money.
As for the Police, my husband has been in touch via e-mail with a Police
Trainer ( my sister-in-law has contacts within the Ontario Police,
luckily!), he is prepared to re-train, and has been informed that some areas
he may be able to "fast track", he only completed his 2 years training in
the UK Police 8 months ago, so at least he isn't going to be throwing years
of experience away.
I did notice that houses got smaller and more expensive the nearer you got
to Toronto. We would be looking in the Barrie area, we have a Real Estate
guy sending us information on houses in our current price range. Barrie
homes are steadily rising and it's starting to become a fairly popular place
to live apparently (info from my sis-in-law), but house prices are
relatively low compared to Toronto and nearby. We wouldn't necessarily want
a house right on the lake, but within a 20 min walking distance would be
cool, we would like an older style house, maybe in downtown Barrie.
I suppose I didn't meet enough Canadians to make a true assessment of how
laid back they are. I must admit it doesn't sound like you get enough time
off for your holiday in Canada, am I correct it's 2 weeks a year? God knows
what I'll do with my kids in the 10 weeks summer holidays if this is the
case!
I'm definitely going to check out Toronto Zoo on your recommendation, we did
Wonderland last summer, luckily we got in a bit cheaper because it was
"Italian Day", even though we're not Italian! We had to queue for everything
for ages, but it was worth it. I loved barbequing, eating out and all the
takeaways, I was in my element! Enjoyed Niagara, of course.
The majority of people I have spoken to in UK are absolutely panic stricken
at the thought of snow for more than a week! I am not one of those people
and you have reassured me about the Canadian winters, as you say, I will get
used to it.
I'm happy to accept that financially, we probably won't be any better off!
It's going to cost a fortune to move all our stuff, support ourselves until
we can find work and buy new stuff for our house in Canada (electrical goods
etc). I suppose we could go for a smaller house and have a really low
mortgage if that, or go for a similar size mortgage to what we have now and
use our equity to have a spacious house, something that's out of our reach
here in the South East of England! I agree with you that the summer in
Canada is fantastic, we used to go to France every year for our holiday,
then we found Canada, that says it all!
Thanks again for taking the time to answer all my questions, any more info
you have is greatly appreciated.
I've also heard Glasgow has great shops and nightlife, I have yet to visit
unfortunately.
Thankyou for your informative reply to my last post.
I am very interested to hear of your experiences in Canada and it's
comparisons to the UK.
I have been in touch with a Hairdressing Salon 30 mins from Barrie, Ontario.
I explained that I have 17 years experience and I explained that I went to
College and have City & Guilds in Hairdressing. They have expressed some
interest and I have arranged to go in for a chat when I'm there this summer.
Correct me if I'm wrong, but I'm sure Canada recognise City & Guilds
qualifications as proof of my skills, I did have a brief look at what
qualifications are required and I seem to recall College Training as one of
them. However, I would be prepared to do the Ontario course to get
accredited, but it does seem a waste of time and money.
As for the Police, my husband has been in touch via e-mail with a Police
Trainer ( my sister-in-law has contacts within the Ontario Police,
luckily!), he is prepared to re-train, and has been informed that some areas
he may be able to "fast track", he only completed his 2 years training in
the UK Police 8 months ago, so at least he isn't going to be throwing years
of experience away.
I did notice that houses got smaller and more expensive the nearer you got
to Toronto. We would be looking in the Barrie area, we have a Real Estate
guy sending us information on houses in our current price range. Barrie
homes are steadily rising and it's starting to become a fairly popular place
to live apparently (info from my sis-in-law), but house prices are
relatively low compared to Toronto and nearby. We wouldn't necessarily want
a house right on the lake, but within a 20 min walking distance would be
cool, we would like an older style house, maybe in downtown Barrie.
I suppose I didn't meet enough Canadians to make a true assessment of how
laid back they are. I must admit it doesn't sound like you get enough time
off for your holiday in Canada, am I correct it's 2 weeks a year? God knows
what I'll do with my kids in the 10 weeks summer holidays if this is the
case!
I'm definitely going to check out Toronto Zoo on your recommendation, we did
Wonderland last summer, luckily we got in a bit cheaper because it was
"Italian Day", even though we're not Italian! We had to queue for everything
for ages, but it was worth it. I loved barbequing, eating out and all the
takeaways, I was in my element! Enjoyed Niagara, of course.
The majority of people I have spoken to in UK are absolutely panic stricken
at the thought of snow for more than a week! I am not one of those people
and you have reassured me about the Canadian winters, as you say, I will get
used to it.
I'm happy to accept that financially, we probably won't be any better off!
It's going to cost a fortune to move all our stuff, support ourselves until
we can find work and buy new stuff for our house in Canada (electrical goods
etc). I suppose we could go for a smaller house and have a really low
mortgage if that, or go for a similar size mortgage to what we have now and
use our equity to have a spacious house, something that's out of our reach
here in the South East of England! I agree with you that the summer in
Canada is fantastic, we used to go to France every year for our holiday,
then we found Canada, that says it all!
Thanks again for taking the time to answer all my questions, any more info
you have is greatly appreciated.
I've also heard Glasgow has great shops and nightlife, I have yet to visit
unfortunately.
