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UK Dual Citizens with no plastic ID card resident over 40yrs

UK Dual Citizens with no plastic ID card resident over 40yrs

Old Mar 23rd 2018, 5:47 am
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Default UK Dual Citizens with no plastic ID card resident over 40yrs

Finally, after 16 months I was issued an updated Cdn Ctznship certificate and passport. No plastic ID card was ever issued in my name nor evidence thereof ever produced by the govt. Total cost of the process $525. Should any Dual Citizen of Can- UK who has been resident here for over 40yrs with the older ctznship document needing assistance, correct suggestions, where to start or negotiating the correct forms, offices and paperwork I would be happy to help.
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Old Mar 23rd 2018, 7:48 pm
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Default Re: UK Dual Citizens with no plastic ID card resident over 40yrs

I'm confused - you had no valid proof of Canadian citizenship for 40 years and just decided to apply for it now? And it cost over $500? Last time I helped people apply for proof of citizenship it was $75 per certificate...
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Old Mar 23rd 2018, 11:14 pm
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Default Re: UK Dual Citizens with no plastic ID card resident over 40yrs

OP, I'm confused also

why would you need a new citizenship document in the first place, especially if you already had a Canadian passport?

my small wallet size citizenship thingy (not the large diploma style that some folks have) is somewhere around & I have never ever had to produce it for any reason or purpose.

Just stick with the passport- mine was recently renewed as a 10 year version

the old large certificate is the only one issued for a period of time when there wasn't the plastic card

and anyway, as I mentioned once you have a Canadian passport you can basically lose the citizenship document

Last edited by not2old; Mar 23rd 2018 at 11:17 pm.
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Old Mar 24th 2018, 12:53 am
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Default Re: UK Dual Citizens with no plastic ID card resident over 40yrs

Originally Posted by Gozit View Post
I'm confused - you had no valid proof of Canadian citizenship for 40 years and just decided to apply for it now? And it cost over $500? Last time I helped people apply for proof of citizenship it was $75 per certificate...
I did not say I had no valid proof of Cdn ctznship for 40 yrs. how did you invent that?

The application fee alone for proof of citizenship is $75 then cost of photos for the UPDATED certificate which are a different size to passport pics, courier fees to and from Sydney Nova Scotia which is where the citizenship office is.

I did not say I just decided to apply for it now after 40yrs.

I did say I applied for an UPDATED certificate which took 16months.

The cost of passport AND certificate was over $500 please read the post thoroughly ..no wonder you are confused
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Old Mar 24th 2018, 1:07 am
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Default Re: UK Dual Citizens with no plastic ID card resident over 40yrs

Originally Posted by beehappy View Post
Finally, after 16 months I was issued an updated Cdn Ctznship certificate and passport. No plastic ID card was ever issued in my name nor evidence thereof ever produced by the govt.

Should any Dual Citizen of Can- UK who has been resident here for over 40yrs with the older ctznship document needing assistance, correct suggestions, where to start or negotiating the correct forms, offices and paperwork I would be happy to help.
this is why it appears confusing
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Old Mar 24th 2018, 2:37 am
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Default Re: UK Dual Citizens with no plastic ID card resident over 40yrs

State why this is confusing for you?
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Old Mar 24th 2018, 2:56 am
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Default Re: UK Dual Citizens with no plastic ID card resident over 40yrs

Not 2 Old said "and anyway, as I mentioned once you have a Canadian passport you can basically lose the citizenship document"

The Govt of Canada Citizenship Office says " This certificate is your official proof of Canadian Citizenship. Keep this document in a safe place in case of loss of other ID. It contains your certificate number, the effective date of Canadian Citizenship and is not a travel document. Registrar of Canadian Citizenship.

The new Canadian Citizenship document is in colour on the front, is two sided with your vital statistics printed on the reverse. The certificate requires two photos larger than passport size photos.

A proper way to help people is to reveal accurately all of the costs involved not just the application fee.

You may be asked to submit more than one document to ascertain your origin and family history. More costs may be incurred.

For those who have used their British passport for travel and have older documents, no current Cdn passport there are many forms and processes to negotiate.

It may be considered somewhat cavalier to suggest 'losing' the old citizenship document especially if the current passport goes missing.
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Old Mar 24th 2018, 3:36 am
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Default Re: UK Dual Citizens with no plastic ID card resident over 40yrs

Should any Dual Citizen of Can- UK who has been resident here for over 40yrs with the older ctznship document needing assistance, correct suggestions, where to start or negotiating the correct forms, offices and paperwork I would be happy to help.
Your offer to help makes it appear you have relevant experience of the underlined part.
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Old Mar 24th 2018, 5:11 am
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Default Re: UK Dual Citizens with no plastic ID card resident over 40yrs

Originally Posted by BristolUK View Post
Your offer to help makes it appear you have relevant experience of the underlined part.

43 year residency...40 years a Canadian Citizen.
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Old Mar 24th 2018, 5:59 pm
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Default Re: UK Dual Citizens with no plastic ID card resident over 40yrs

Originally Posted by beehappy View Post

The Govt of Canada Citizenship Office says " This certificate is your official proof of Canadian Citizenship. Keep this document in a safe place in case of loss of other ID. It contains your certificate number, the effective date of Canadian Citizenship and is not a travel document. Registrar of Canadian Citizenship.

A proper way to help people is to reveal accurately all of the costs involved not just the application fee.

You may be asked to submit more than one document to ascertain your origin and family history. More costs may be incurred.

For those who have used their British passport for travel and have older documents, no current Cdn passport there are many forms and processes to negotiate.

It may be considered somewhat cavalier to suggest 'losing' the old citizenship document especially if the current passport goes missing.
OK,I could go along with most of that but wont & I'll tell you why

once you have held/had a Canadian passport the passport office can find you with or without a Canadian citizenship document or birth certificate

just saying

and why now did you bother going for a renewed citizenship certificate?

was it because you never had a Canadian passport previously?


Originally Posted by beehappy View Post
43 year residency...40 years a Canadian Citizen.

so why did you go to get an updated or replacement citizenship document 'at a cost'... reason & purpose if you would be so kind?

BTW, many I suspect could not put their hands on their Canadian citizenship certificate for 10 years ago never mind 40 years ago

same with the British or Canadian birth certificate or expired passports,many are lost I suppose
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Old Mar 24th 2018, 6:23 pm
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Default Re: UK Dual Citizens with no plastic ID card resident over 40yrs

Originally Posted by beehappy View Post
Finally, after 16 months I was issued an updated Cdn Ctznship certificate and passport. No plastic ID card was ever issued in my name nor evidence thereof ever produced by the govt. Total cost of the process $525. Should any Dual Citizen of Can- UK who has been resident here for over 40yrs with the older ctznship document needing assistance, correct suggestions, where to start or negotiating the correct forms, offices and paperwork I would be happy to help.
Did you or did you not get a Canadian passport in the past?
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Old Mar 24th 2018, 7:56 pm
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Default Re: UK Dual Citizens with no plastic ID card resident over 40yrs

1. once you have held/had a Canadian passport the passport office can find you with or without a Canadian citizenship document or birth certificate

Counter service at the Passport Office are not in the business of finding someone. They are busy and strict. They no longer accept Older Cdn citizenship documents as evidence to apply for passport service. This fact is stated on the reverse of the document. They do accept the plastic ID card if you have it. Nor do they want to see Old Cdn passports or British passports. If no plastic ID card was ever given out there is a printed hand out sheet outlining the process required to obtain an updated Ctzn certificate in return for the old one. Once obtained a person can then apply for a passport. Time spent 16 months

2.and why now did you bother going for a renewed citizenship certificate?

October 2016 saw new rules for Dual Citizens stating they must hold a Cdn passport for re-entry into Canada despite constitutional guarantee of leave and enter for citizens. If a person always used their British passport for to and fro travel they are no longer able to do so. To see family again was, in my opinion, worth the bother.

was it because you never had a Canadian passport previously?

3. No. Five Canadian passports and 3 British

so why did you go to get an updated or replacement citizenship document 'at a cost'... reason & purpose if you would be so kind?

4. Government requirement being the reason in order to apply for a Cdn passport..since the Older citizenship documents have been marginalized and no longer accepted as proof of citizenship. Only the new colour document with vital statistics on the reverse is acceptable.

The plastic ID cards are no longer issued as of 2012. No plastic SIN Cards issued as of 2014. Nor are old Cdn passports accepted, nor pension documents stamped by the Chief Examiner of Canada stating he has documents in his custody which satisfies him of the applicants citizenship.

IRCC states: We stopped issuing the plastic wallet sized citizenship cards with the commemorative certificates in February 2012. If you lost your card or need to make a change to it, you must apply ...
GIC.CA

BTW, many I suspect could not put their hands on their Canadian citizenship certificate for 10 years ago never mind 40 years ago.

Perhaps they have other documents which are acceptable

Last edited by beehappy; Mar 24th 2018 at 8:07 pm.
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Old Mar 25th 2018, 12:06 am
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Default Re: UK Dual Citizens with no plastic ID card resident over 40yrs

OP, by no means am I stiring the pot, simply trying to understand what you first posted 'for information purposes only' for the uninformed.

wanted to let folks on BE know that spring 2017 I renewed my Canadian passport at the counter service of the passport office

All they asked for was my drivers license + current/last issued passport, the form + photo's

At no time in any of the past renewals going back 45 years was I ever asked for proof of Canadian citizenship in the form of the plastic card or a certificate.

My first application was the only time that I was required to show proof of Canadian citizenship

So I am wondering if things have changed since spring 2017?

Maybe other Canadian passport holders can pipe in

and BTW, on the last three renewals these were made at different passport/service Canada offices in Ontario & I was not asked for proof of Canadian citizenship... so go figure

I just checked the passport office website that states applying in Canada you need just the old/current passport - no mention of a citizenship document

OP, I would be interested if you could find the information where it states 'when applying to renew a Canadian passport in Canada that proof of citizenship is required, in the form of citizenship document other than a current or expired Canadian passport?

.

Last edited by not2old; Mar 25th 2018 at 12:59 am. Reason: edit to add to the post
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Old Mar 25th 2018, 2:26 am
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Default Re: UK Dual Citizens with no plastic ID card resident over 40yrs

Originally Posted by not2old View Post
OP, by no means am I stiring the pot, simply trying to understand what you first posted 'for information purposes only' for the uninformed.

OP, by no means am I stiring the pot, simply trying to understand what you first posted 'for information purposes only' for the uninformed.

Must have been the OP wrote that ...it was not me.


wanted to let folks on BE know that spring 2017 I renewed my Canadian passport at the counter service of the passport office

How did you renew it if your passport had expired over 6 months?

All they asked for was my drivers license + current/last issued passport, the form + photo's

At no time in any of the past renewals going back 45 years was I ever asked for proof of Canadian citizenship in the form of the plastic card or a certificate.

Did you not tell them your passport had expired?

My first application was the only time that I was required to show proof of Canadian citizenship.

Was that over 40 years ago?

So I am wondering if things have changed since spring 2017?

November 2016 were the changes

Maybe other Canadian passport holders can pipe in

and BTW, on the last three renewals these were made at different passport/service Canada offices in Ontario & I was not asked for proof of Canadian citizenship... so go figure

I just checked the passport office website that states applying in Canada you need just the old/current passport - no mention of a citizenship document
OP, I would be interested if you could find the information where it states 'when applying to renew a Canadian passport in Canada that proof of citizenship is required, in the form of citizenship document other than a current or expired Canadian passport?

.
Please think carefully...A person is not RENEWING if the passport has lapsed for more than 6 months.
It is called RE APPLYING.

If you went to the passport counter after Oct 2016 to renew your passport with an expired Cdn passport over 6 months you would have to re-apply

Your 5 old Cdn passports, Brit passport, older ctz document, and no Cdn plastic ID card means you would not be served. They do not provide a service of 'looking you up'

Instead you would be given a list of instructions to update your ctz certificate before you are eligible for applying for passport services

Because the passport office no longer accepts older canadian ctz docs as proof of citizenship or old Canadian passports.
They will not 'look you up'. You need to obtain the new updated colour ctz document with your vital statistics on the reverse. This is the only document passport office accepts if your Cdn passport has run out and there is no plastic ID card.

There are other forms for not having the card. I can help those ones with negotiating those forms and how to get help and access through a local Member of Parliament since this is what I went through which was a process which took 16 months.

Just keep thinking no current Cdn passport, no plastic ID card. Only older passports both CDn and British.
You see if the Cdn passport expired over 6 months you must apply for a new one not a renewal. The passport office will not accept older ctz docs either in light of this only the new ctz document.

Some British Duals have used their British passport only for travel in and out to keep costs down letting the Cdn passport lapse but the rules changed Oct 2016 The Cdn govt did not like us doing that as there was no money being made here.


Now one is obliged to have both passports otherwise no re -entry into Canada despite the constitution guaranteeing free leave and entry. Good Luck with your re entry into Canada!! Here's the link to govt rules on boarding your flight.

https://www.canada.ca/en/immigration...it-canada.html

Last edited by beehappy; Mar 25th 2018 at 2:47 am.
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Old Mar 25th 2018, 3:22 am
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Default Re: UK Dual Citizens with no plastic ID card resident over 40yrs

Sounds like OP had a fair reason for having to go through the whole re-updating ordeal, sounds like a shite situation for you. One that however could have been avoided if you kept an up-to-date Canadian passport at all times rather then just relying on your UK one.

CIC / IRCC really needs to get a handle on getting these docs to people quickly and clear the backlogs.

I'm interested to hear exactly what you had to do to get the updated doc.
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