Taking up Residence

Old Sep 26th 2008, 10:32 am
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Default Taking up Residence

Hi, this is my first post!!!

I hold Canadian citizenship (Dual UK and Canadian) and have accepted an offer of employment with an oil company in Halifax. I start with them in November and intend to move then with my wife. She is an Irish citizen but has lived in the UK for the last 30 years or so. I was going to sponsor her for residence when we arrive. She will enter on a visitors visa.

My concern is what do we say to the officers at the entry point at Halifax airport? I would hate for there to be an issue over her status? Should we just say we are visiting, which is usually what we say, leaving us free to enter and me to sort out a sponsorhip process soon after arrival.

Would appreciate any advice.
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Old Sep 26th 2008, 11:42 am
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Default Re: Taking up Residence

If you are coming to Canada using your Canadian passport intending to settle then just tell the truth there is nothing illegal about it and any evasion or mis-statement would not go over well. Also, you can get started now with the process of reading up on sponsorship and getting needed documents together.
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Old Sep 26th 2008, 2:21 pm
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Default Re: Taking up Residence

Originally Posted by dippy
Hi, this is my first post!!!

I hold Canadian citizenship (Dual UK and Canadian) and have accepted an offer of employment with an oil company in Halifax. I start with them in November and intend to move then with my wife. She is an Irish citizen but has lived in the UK for the last 30 years or so. I was going to sponsor her for residence when we arrive. She will enter on a visitors visa.
Why not get her a migration visa before she leaves the U.K. (avoids complications).

Also, has she thought about obtaining her British citizenship before she leaves?
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Old Sep 26th 2008, 10:41 pm
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Default Re: Taking up Residence

Thanks, I will take advice from the High Commission here next week. We may start sponsorship proceedings at this end and that would be the statement we would make at entry. Failing that we will state exactly the nature of our situation stating that we will commence sponsorship process upon arrival. If necessary I assume we can apply to extend her stay on that basis assuming the process will take longer than 6 months in Canada?

It wasn't my intent to mislead the border staff in any way for very obvious reasons.

One of the issues I guess is that my initial position in Halifax is for just over two years. Unless I can get a comparable position after that the likelihood is that we would return to the UK (Aberdeen) to work for another few years before retiring to Canada. Fortunately the 'oil' industry pays well so I need to take advantage of my experience before we retire!!

My wife has considered taking UK citizenship but it is now too close to our departure in November to get very far with that. Because she is an EU citizen which for all of us these days seems to be the 'primary' citizenship she is entitled to residence in any of the EU states as am I.
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Old Sep 27th 2008, 2:17 am
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Default Re: Taking up Residence

Originally Posted by dippy
Thanks, I will take advice from the High Commission here next week. We may start sponsorship proceedings at this end and that would be the statement we would make at entry. Failing that we will state exactly the nature of our situation stating that we will commence sponsorship process upon arrival. If necessary I assume we can apply to extend her stay on that basis assuming the process will take longer than 6 months in Canada?
Some people have done that but it is always problematic to be on tourist status ... eg problems with work rights, healthcare, leaving Canada and re-entering etc.


My wife has considered taking UK citizenship but it is now too close to our departure in November to get very far with that.
It's not too late. She can apply and complete the process in Canada if necessary. Spouses of British citizens do not have to intend to live in the U.K.



Because she is an EU citizen which for all of us these days seems to be the 'primary' citizenship she is entitled to residence in any of the EU states as am I.
It is not her "primary" citizenship and if you look ahead into the next few years there are two specific possibilities that could make it all a memory. The worst recession in a generation (or two) and the election of a new government in Britain with a very different attitude towards Europe (in 2010) then it should not be assumed that the current free movement of labour between European countries will necessary last.

Granted, Irish citizens are least likely to be affected by developments in Britain (and vice versa) but the only secure way to guarantee a return to the U.K. later is to become a British citizen.
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Old Sep 27th 2008, 3:52 am
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Default Re: Taking up Residence

Originally Posted by dippy
If necessary I assume we can apply to extend her stay on that basis assuming the process will take longer than 6 months in Canada?
Yes, your wife can apply to extend her stay in Canada.

Regardless of where you are physically located when you and your wife lodge the application, I strongly recommend that you submit an outland application rather than an inland application. The reason is that an inland application, which you are allowed to submit from within Canada, takes at least twice as long to be processed.

If you submitted an inland application, you'd be looking at eighteen months or more. True, when the inland application reaches the approval in principle (AIP) stage at roughly the halfway point, the sponsored spouse is eligible for a spousal open work permit (SOWP). But in most cases an outland application would have been processed and the spouse would have received permanent residence (PR) status in the same amount of time (and often less time) than it would have taken an inland application to reach the AIP stage.

I suggest you read the Where to apply and What to do while waiting sections of the Wiki article called Spousal Sponsorship-Canada. The article refers to British citizens who are being sponsored by their Canadian spouses, but the information is equally applicable to Irish citizens.
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Last edited by Judy in Calgary; Sep 27th 2008 at 4:03 am. Reason: Added clarification about British versus Irish citizens.
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Old Sep 27th 2008, 6:56 am
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Default Re: Taking up Residence

Originally Posted by Judy in Calgary
Yes, your wife can apply to extend her stay in Canada.

Regardless of where you are physically located when you and your wife lodge the application, I strongly recommend that you submit an outland application rather than an inland application. The reason is that an inland application, which you are allowed to submit from within Canada, takes at least twice as long to be processed.

If you submitted an inland application, you'd be looking at eighteen months or more. True, when the inland application reaches the approval in principle (AIP) stage at roughly the halfway point, the sponsored spouse is eligible for a spousal open work permit (SOWP). But in most cases an outland application would have been processed and the spouse would have received permanent residence (PR) status in the same amount of time (and often less time) than it would have taken an inland application to reach the AIP stage.

I suggest you read the Where to apply and What to do while waiting sections of the Wiki article called Spousal Sponsorship-Canada. The article refers to British citizens who are being sponsored by their Canadian spouses, but the information is equally applicable to Irish citizens.
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Judy, thanks for your feedback.
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Old Sep 27th 2008, 7:11 am
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Default Re: Taking up Residence

Originally Posted by JAJ
Some people have done that but it is always problematic to be on tourist status ... eg problems with work rights, healthcare, leaving Canada and re-entering etc.




It's not too late. She can apply and complete the process in Canada if necessary. Spouses of British citizens do not have to intend to live in the U.K.





It is not her "primary" citizenship and if you look ahead into the next few years there are two specific possibilities that could make it all a memory. The worst recession in a generation (or two) and the election of a new government in Britain with a very different attitude towards Europe (in 2010) then it should not be assumed that the current free movement of labour between European countries will necessary last.

Granted, Irish citizens are least likely to be affected by developments in Britain (and vice versa) but the only secure way to guarantee a return to the U.K. later is to become a British citizen.
JAJ, 'primary' was a slightly tounge in cheek description in ref to the EU..... you have to live here to understand the influence the EU seems to have on us all these days!

I will take up the point about applying before we go as it seems to be on balance the best option.

Thanks to veryone thus far for your help..... I got my citizenship through my father who was born near Kentville NS.... that was very straightforward! Have been to NS every year for the past five years and love every minute of our time there. My grandfather is laid to rest in a small cemetary near Berwick next to his first cousin.... they both came back to the UK to fight during the first war. They joined the Canadian Expeditionary Force. He was in the Canadia Legion for abot 50 years!
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Old Sep 27th 2008, 7:38 pm
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Default Re: Taking up Residence

Originally Posted by dippy
JAJ, 'primary' was a slightly tounge in cheek description in ref to the EU..... you have to live here to understand the influence the EU seems to have on us all these days!
The EU has over-reached itself and as it is incapable of returning to the European Community that many more people supported, there are only two possible futures - a Europe held together by force, or a break-up. In the latter case, the current free movement of people between member states could disappear virtually overnight and the only ones exempted will be those holding either dual citizenship or a formal right of permanent residence.

I will take up the point about applying before we go as it seems to be on balance the best option.
If the application is not completed she will have to attend a ceremony at a British diplomatic mission in Canada.

When changing her address, she should remember there is always a high risk of confusion when this happens so be proactive in following up just in case they send something to the old address, get no reply, think she is no longer interested and close the file with refusal.

She also must have been physically in the U.K. on the exact date 3 years prior to application. Lots of people get caught by this and if she is about to leave, she has only one chance to get it right.

The Life in the UK Test must be completed beforehand: http://www.lifeintheuktest.gov.uk

Strongly recommended to use the Nationality Checking Service.
http://www.bia.homeoffice.gov.uk/bri...ship/applying/

She will find that it is a lot more expensive to become a British citizen now than it used to be. Had she taken the step 25 years ago, or even 5 years ago, it would have been a lot cheaper.

If you want to ask more about naturalisation, http://www.immigrationboards.com is a useful site.

I got my citizenship through my father who was born near Kentville NS.... that was very straightforward! Have been to NS every year for the past five years and love every minute of our time there. My grandfather is laid to rest in a small cemetary near Berwick next to his first cousin.... they both came back to the UK to fight during the first war. They joined the Canadian Expeditionary Force. He was in the Canadia Legion for abot 50 years!
Do you have any children? Or any children planned? Under the new citizenship law, which will come into force between now and April 2009, as you are Canadian by descent any children you have born outside Canada will not automatically be Canadian citizens.

Last edited by JAJ; Sep 27th 2008 at 7:45 pm.
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Old Sep 27th 2008, 10:13 pm
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Default Re: Taking up Residence

JAJ, we have three children and all received their citizenship certs in 2005 after applying. All three under the current legislation are subject to retention process. Hoever, it is my understanding under the amended legislation that comes into force no later than April 17 2009 that retention will no longer apply for two of them who's 28th birthday falls after this point. My eldest has lost his due not completing the years residency criteria and he is now 28! The youngest two are awaiting their passports at the moment.

The High Commission in London have confirmed my interpretation of the amended law. We are pleased as my daughter was unable to complete her residency due studying for a PHD in Environmental Science at Aberdeen University. David, my youngest at 23 is to relocate with us when I take up my position in Halifax in November.

As to an earlier comment about my wifes status in the UK should the EU thing change. British and Irish relationships predate the EU so the right to settle is a long standing arrangement. In any event both her parents were born before the Irish state formally existed.... and were at that pont de facto British!

Oh, I am 56 and unlikely to be planning on more children..... can't afford the ones we have now!!!!

Last edited by dippy; Sep 28th 2008 at 12:03 am.
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Old Sep 27th 2008, 10:33 pm
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Default Re: Taking up Residence

One last point. On rereading the sponsorship paperwork it is implicit in an application that you take up permanent residence at the point at which that is granted. We are initially going to work for a couple of years but don't know what will happen when my contract runs out in 2011. As said I am in the oil industry so would most likely return to the UK and work in Aberdeen again before making the ultimate decision to retire to Canada at some point after that. I may be offered more work at the right salary in Halifax and stay?

If we cannot state categorically that we are to maintain Canadian residency should we sponsor at this stage? I feel slightly exposed given my usual ability to be very organised! I assume she could enter on the visitor visa and apply for extensions for the period of our two year stay this time? In any event we are both arriving in November and have resigned our positions here on that basis! And this is what we would say to the officer on entry at Halifax airport. I don't want to be on my own for two years!!!!!

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Old Sep 28th 2008, 5:18 am
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Default Re: Taking up Residence

Originally Posted by dippy
JAJ, we have three children and all received their citizenship certs in 2005 after applying. All three under the current legislation are subject to retention process. Hoever, it is my understanding under the amended legislation that comes into force no later than April 17 2009 that retention will no longer apply for two of them who's 28th birthday falls after this point. My eldest has lost his due not completing the years residency criteria and he is now 28! The youngest two are awaiting their passports at the moment.

The High Commission in London have confirmed my interpretation of the amended law. We are pleased as my daughter was unable to complete her residency due studying for a PHD in Environmental Science at Aberdeen University. David, my youngest at 23 is to relocate with us when I take up my position in Halifax in November.
Your understanding is correct. Unfortunately for your older son, the new law does not do anything to restore his citizenship, or that of anyone else who loses it at age 28 before Commencement Day. It stops future losses, but does not restore what has already been revoked.

As far as I am aware, your son does not get any immigration preference due to his having been a former Canadian citizen. But if he does obtain permanent resident status, he may be able to apply for resumption after only one year's residence in Canada. As far as I can see the existing law on resumption allows that. Unless the new law takes this facility away.

As to an earlier comment about my wifes status in the UK should the EU thing change. British and Irish relationships predate the EU so the right to settle is a long standing arrangement. In any event both her parents were born before the Irish state formally existed.... and were at that pont de facto British!
Be aware that even if the right to settle is maintained, other rights may be lost such as the right to claim certain benefits.

As to the status of her parents, it doesn't give her any special claim on British citizenship. The only way is to become naturalised, if that is what she wants.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/British...lic_of_Ireland

Oh, I am 56 and unlikely to be planning on more children..... can't afford the ones we have now!!!!
The change in the law will affect any non-Canada born children that your children have. Your future grandchildren will not automatically be Canadian citizens, if born outside Canada.

Your children should however be aware that if they have children born outside Canada, they can still sponsor the children to migrate to Canada and the children can then immediately be granted Canadian citizenship after arriving. Children do not need to meet the normal residence requirement provided they hold PR status and have a Canadian parent.
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Old Sep 28th 2008, 5:34 am
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Default Re: Taking up Residence

Originally Posted by dippy
One last point. On rereading the sponsorship paperwork it is implicit in an application that you take up permanent residence at the point at which that is granted. We are initially going to work for a couple of years but don't know what will happen when my contract runs out in 2011. As said I am in the oil industry so would most likely return to the UK and work in Aberdeen again before making the ultimate decision to retire to Canada at some point after that. I may be offered more work at the right salary in Halifax and stay?

If we cannot state categorically that we are to maintain Canadian residency should we sponsor at this stage? I feel slightly exposed given my usual ability to be very organised! I assume she could enter on the visitor visa and apply for extensions for the period of our two year stay this time? In any event we are both arriving in November and have resigned our positions here on that basis! And this is what we would say to the officer on entry at Halifax airport. I don't want to be on my own for two years!!!!!
There are Canadian members of this forum who have sponsored their British spouses while both were still living in the UK (or, conversely, British forum members who were sponsored by Canadian spouses under similar circumstances). From these anecdotal accounts, it seems that Citizenship and Immigration Canada does not check on a couple's intentions too closely.

But, even if you don't want to rely on anecdotal accounts, your wife should still be safe. If you submit an outland application (even if you're physically in Canada at the time that you submit the applicaion), it should be processed within about six months or so. I've seen a couple of instances on this forum in which outland applications have been processed in as little as two months. In any event, if all the paperwork was in order, I wouldn't visualize an outland application taking any more than nine months, at the most. This means that your wife should have permanent residency well before your contract runs out in 2011.

Once your wife has PR status, a day that she spends outside of Canada in your company counts as a day that was spent inside Canada for the purposes of meeting her PR residency obligation. Time spent outside Canada in your company does not count towards her residency requirement for Canadian citizenship, however. Being as methodical as you are, you probably know that already. But I thought I'd mention it just in case you didn't know.
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Old Oct 1st 2008, 10:37 am
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Default Re: Taking up Residence

Originally Posted by Judy in Calgary
Once your wife has PR status, a day that she spends outside of Canada in your company counts as a day that was spent inside Canada for the purposes of meeting her PR residency obligation.
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Judy, could you expand on this point..... assume we can tot up the 730 days qualification period even if we left Canada for a period after PR granted?
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Old Oct 4th 2008, 11:59 am
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Default Re: Taking up Residence

Originally Posted by dippy
Judy, could you expand on this point..... assume we can tot up the 730 days qualification period even if we left Canada for a period after PR granted?
http://www.cic.gc.ca/english/informa...des/5445EA.asp

Doesn't count for citizenship, however.
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