Proof of funds

Old May 4th 2013, 5:59 pm
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Default Proof of funds

Okay, I only have to search to know this has been asked before but I just have to confirm the latest situation to keep my sanity.

If you are being processed by the London office for FSW, you are allowed to use proven equity in your house as proof of funds.

As this is not documented anywhere (that I know of), can people confirm that this is still the case or confirm otherwise????????

This rule being undocumented makes this quite a leap of faith (so to speak).
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Old May 4th 2013, 6:07 pm
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Default Re: Proof of funds

You must show that you have enough money to support yourself and your family after you get to Canada. You cannot borrow this money from another person. You must be able to use this money to pay the costs of living for your family (even if they are not coming with you).

You will need to show proof to the Canadian visa office in your home country that you have enough money when you apply to immigrate.

The amount of money you need to support your family is set by the size of your family. We update these amounts every year.

Number of
Family Members Funds Required
(in Canadian dollars)
1 $11,115
2 $13,837
3 $17,011
4 $20,654
5 $23,425
6 $26,419
7 or more $29,414

The funds must be:
• available and transferable;
• unencumbered by debts or other obligations.
Officers must be satisfied that the applicant has at their disposal, with sufficient liquidity, and with the ability to transfer those assets, the necessary threshold of funds to support their establishment in Canada on arrival.
The amount of funds is assessed according to the applicant’s family size using 50% of Statistics Canada’s most current Low Income Cut-off (LICO) for urban areas with populations of 500,000 or more.
Exception: If the applicant has arranged employment as defined in R82, they do not have to meet these financial requirements (R76(b)(ii).
If the applicant is unable to demonstrate that they have sufficient available funds to meet the requirements, the officer should refuse the application and proceed to Section 10.
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Old May 4th 2013, 6:21 pm
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Default Re: Proof of funds

Originally Posted by Former Lancastrian View Post
You must show that you have enough money to support yourself and your family after you get to Canada. You cannot borrow this money from another person. You must be able to use this money to pay the costs of living for your family (even if they are not coming with you).

You will need to show proof to the Canadian visa office in your home country that you have enough money when you apply to immigrate.

The amount of money you need to support your family is set by the size of your family. We update these amounts every year.

Number of
Family Members Funds Required
(in Canadian dollars)
1 $11,115
2 $13,837
3 $17,011
4 $20,654
5 $23,425
6 $26,419
7 or more $29,414

The funds must be:
• available and transferable;
• unencumbered by debts or other obligations.
Officers must be satisfied that the applicant has at their disposal, with sufficient liquidity, and with the ability to transfer those assets, the necessary threshold of funds to support their establishment in Canada on arrival.
The amount of funds is assessed according to the applicant’s family size using 50% of Statistics Canada’s most current Low Income Cut-off (LICO) for urban areas with populations of 500,000 or more.
Exception: If the applicant has arranged employment as defined in R82, they do not have to meet these financial requirements (R76(b)(ii).
If the applicant is unable to demonstrate that they have sufficient available funds to meet the requirements, the officer should refuse the application and proceed to Section 10.
Searching back on this forum. Time and time again it has been said that although not documented the London office is the only visa office to accept 3 house valuations and a mortgage statement for proof of funds.
Are you saying this has now changed.?
Like most people from the uk who have gained PR before us we have more than enough funds tied up in our UK home which we will sell before we land.
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Old May 4th 2013, 6:26 pm
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Default Re: Proof of funds

Thanks for the response.

I have seen that, but I also know that through the London VO many, many, many UK FSW applicants have been successful using proven equity in their property - mortgage statement plus several house valuations (as I'm sure you know).

To my knowledge this accepted form of proof of funds isn't written down.

So I'm gathering from your by the book reply that this is purely at the discretion of the visa officer, or this is no longer accepted???

Cheers

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Old May 5th 2013, 4:41 pm
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Default Re: Proof of funds

Does anyone know the answer to this.? We are due to post our application on Tuesday.
Many thanks.
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Old May 5th 2013, 6:44 pm
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Default Re: Proof of funds

On form IMM 0008 (05-2013) E Schedule 3 at http://www.cic.gc.ca/english/pdf/kit...imm0008_3e.pdf

Under section 11 is says:

a) Assets
Indicate the total amount of assets, in Canadian dollars

b) Liabilities
Indicate the total amount of Liabilities, in Canadian dollars

c) Settlement funds
Indicate the total amount of unencumbered transferrable and available funds that you have in Canadian dollars.

--> Provide Evidence

Evidence:
Under a) As proof of assets provide mortgage valuations, Car valuation and other high value items, such as jewellery (with valuations)... oh! and cash in the bank.. savings, current account etc.

Under b) Evidence of all liabilities.. money owed on credit cards, bank overdraft, car loan, mortgage, any other loans, HP etc.

Under c) Settlement Funds - Basically provide proof of the cash you have in the bank, current & savings accounts.

The key to c) is: unencumbered transferrable and available funds

It's no good having all your money locked up in (say) a house that may not sell, nor provide provide much needed unencumbered funds for when you land.

If you do not have the unencumbered transferrable and available cash to meet the minimum CIC set requirements (which in practical terms are very low anyway) how are you going to buy your air tickets, pay rent, buy a car, eat, feed the kids, if all your money is locked up back in the UK?

For the purposes of your application
I would make sure that you have the minimum required funds in your accounts and provide proof on application. Note: The money cannot be borrowed, so it will be of no help injecting (say) $15,000 into your account a week before you sent you application off, unless you show that the source was yours in the first place. I think they need 6 months banks statements as proof, but can't quite nail that one. It would certainly be three months as a minimum.

Even on landing, if the CBSA office asks for proof of funds, and you are short of the CIC quoted minimum, a house valuation will not cut it. If the officer feels you do not have enough unencumbered funds to survive you may be refused from landing as a PR.

As has been said on here a few times.. the minimums set by CIC are way too low in practical terms. I'd say you'd need at least double those figure, and then some, and that's still cutting it fine!

Last edited by james.mc; May 5th 2013 at 6:47 pm. Reason: Can't spell! ;)
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Old May 5th 2013, 6:57 pm
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Default Re: Proof of funds

Originally Posted by lydiaparr View Post
Like most people from the uk who have gained PR before us we have more than enough funds tied up in our UK home which we will sell before we land.
Of course it will sell if the price is low enough, but will it sell when you want it to or at what you are willing to let it go for?
If you had to sell at a price lower than you wanted would it produce any funds at all? In your case it may, but in other cases maybe not.

I suspect CIC do not list house valuations as acceptable proof of settlement funds is because the equity cannot be deemed as unencumbered and available for use. Of course they may see it as an asset but that is another matter.
It seems that they wish to see that you already have unencumbered funds available at the time of application and on landing. Funds currently locked up in property are not unencumbered nor available for use.

I'm sure that is what Former Lancastrian is trying to get across by quoting the text he did.

Last edited by james.mc; May 5th 2013 at 6:59 pm.
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Old May 5th 2013, 7:01 pm
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Default Re: Proof of funds

I can read too, but that isn't answering my original question.

If that is the case (as has always been), why has the London VO been allowing proven equity as proof of funds??

They have allowed this for many years as people on here have proven, but it was never written down.

All I'm asking is if anyone knows officially or unofficially if the London VO have changed their stance?????

Am I imagining all the posts from people who have done this? Have a search and you'll see them too.
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Old May 5th 2013, 9:56 pm
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Default Re: Proof of funds

Only trying to help. As you point out, little seems to be documented as to what is officially accepted by CIC London as proof of settlement funds. This is probably why there is not much response from the Forum.

I seem to recall that the IMM EG7000 (2008) guide used to say 'can include property valuations' (Which I think is the guide we used in Jan 2010). However, we supplied proof of cash available not property valuations.

IMM EG7000 (03-2010) definitely did say 'can include the value of property you own'.

Section 10:
Funds
Indicate the amount (in Canadian dollars) of unencumbered transferable and available funds that you have. This amount can include the value of any property that you own, but should not include Jewellery, cars or other personal possessions.
This year, in the latest online IMM 7000 guide (05-2013)

….under Question 11 says:

c) Total funds available for settlement in Canada
With consideration to your total assets and liabilities, indicate the total amount (in Canadian dollars) of unencumbered, transferable and available funds that you have for settlement in Canada.

Note: You must provide proof of settlement funds with your application. Refer to the Document Checklist (PDF, 240 KB) for more information.
(This new document checklist takes you to about a close as they get to defining what they mean - in 2013 - by unencumbered/available funds for settlement and is the latest information available.)

In that document
Section 15 says:

Provide proof of unencumbered and readily transferrable funds in a convertible currency available for settlement in Canada:
  • Current bank certification letter; or
  • Evidence of savings balance; or
  • Fixed or time deposit statements.
In the most recent IMM EG7000's (or any linked documents) one can no longer find reference to property valuations being acceptable as proof of settlement funds.

I can only conclude that what may have been accepted by CIC London in 2008, 2010, may not be acceptable now if that is of any help?

A lot has shifted on the FSW front ver the last year, so it's hard to call on the past experience of anyone as acceptable today. The only people that could really give you a definitive answer on this are probably one of the hardest to contact - CIC London.

You could try emailing: [email protected] and asking but they may not respond.

Last edited by james.mc; May 5th 2013 at 10:05 pm.
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Old May 6th 2013, 12:44 am
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Default Re: Proof of funds

Understand the OP question are related to the application process but it worth looking in to what you'll actually need once you arrive as well.
From experience when you first land your cash can go down rapidly on -
hire cars
cell phone & internet costs
property rental deposit
property rental payments
Rental Insurance
vehicle purchase
vehicle insurance
plus the every day costs like food and Utilities etc.
If you've no pre-arranged employment when you arrive all of the above is going to be coming from savings until you secure employment. Its certainly advisable to bring a reasonable amount of funds when you arrive to help you settle in.
Do plenty of research on rental or purchase prices of houses the the area your like to relocate and compare this with salaries in your chosen employment field.
Hope this helps & all the best with your plans.

Last edited by joinerboy; May 6th 2013 at 12:47 am.
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Old May 6th 2013, 6:19 am
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Default Re: Proof of funds

Originally Posted by james.mc View Post
I seem to recall that the IMM EG7000 (2008) guide used to say......
Thanks for pointing out the difference. I may have room 5010 guide printed out somewhere, or at least the 2011 where I know they stillaccepted equity.
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Old May 6th 2013, 6:22 am
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Default Re: Proof of funds

Originally Posted by joinerboy View Post
Do plenty of research on rental or purchase prices of houses the the area your like to relocate and compare this with salaries in your chosen employment field.
Hope this helps & all the best with your plans.
Don't worry, we've researched this to death. If/when we get there we will be quite buoyant. Hardly millionaires, but liquid enough.
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Old May 6th 2013, 3:24 pm
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Default Re: Proof of funds

Hey Scribe.

We went through exactly the same thing. We wouldn't have the funds until we sold our house, so asked all the same questions, with all the same wooly answers

We added up our equity, subtracted our debt, and what was left we put down as un-encumberred funds.

Our plan was always to sell the house and have cash in the bank when we landed, to show proof of funds.

But we sat for a year wondering if CIC would accept our proof of funds on our application. And they did!!

When we landed a couple of weeks ago at Niagara, no-one asked for proof of funds

You can't win, sorry, it's a crap-shoot.
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Old May 6th 2013, 3:37 pm
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Default Re: Proof of funds

You are dealing with CIC initially and in streams like this FSW you need to provide CIC with the proof of funds before they will issue the COPR forms.
From a CBSA perspective in this stream you have already provided the proof of funds so why the need to ask for it again?
In other streams COPRs are issued and the person arrives to land but has not yet finalized the sale of the house in the UK or is just landing and not establishing a residence and returning back to the UK.
In this case why even ask for proof of funds as they are not going to be living in Canada they are just coming to do the landing. They wont even have proof of funds as the house hasn't sold.
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Old May 6th 2013, 4:38 pm
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Default Re: Proof of funds

Thanks for all the replies everyone, and apologies if I came across as a bit arsey in one this is a stressful time, especially when the courier is booked for tomorrow to send the application on it's way.

I have gathered the cash and have what I think is a good enough audit trail to prove the cash isn't loaned to me. I hit my own limited company for all the dividends it can take to add to our current savings. The UK tax man may start to think that was a salary or bonus payment, but that's a different totally unrelated problem for me to deal with later if it arises

Dave n Ailsa - I read your post on the subject and can understand your frustration (and I'm glad it worked for you). You said you used car values in the assets section. I've printed off the value for our cars off parkers.co.uk. Is that what you used or did you have a more official valuation?

Cheers again

Last edited by scribe123; May 6th 2013 at 4:39 pm. Reason: can't spell for toffee
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