UK_Curious

Hello All

First of all apologies if I am asking something already asked many times before on this forum.

Back in 2010 my family and I became landed immigrants in Canada based on my professional status.

We obtained our SIN numbers but then returned to UK. The plan was to settle up everything in UK and move over to CA.

However, circumstances changed and we were unable to move and the PR cards expired in 2015 (5 years validity). We did not fulfil the 2/5 years rule.

If we wish to pursue the intentions to move now what are our options?

Can we go back on existing PR (by applying for the PRTD (Permanent Resident Travel Document)) and reside there for 2 years to fulfil the 2 out of 5 year rule to renew the PR? If this is possible can we use the existing SIN numbers to work?

Or do we have to re-apply and go through the whole application process again? By that I means apply as new applicants.

Your advise is very much appreciated.

Thanks in advance for any responses

Avi

christmasoompa

You can certainly try and get a PRTD, but realistically as soon as your application is looked at, they'll realise you've not met your residency obligations and the process of removing your PR status will be started.

So give it a go just in case it slips through the net (although you've then still got to hope that the border officer doesn't spot you've not met your RO either, so it would still be a big risk), but be prepared to have to start from scratch and apply again. Are you eligible under the new rules and criteria?

UK_Curious

Would they reject it even on compassionate grounds?

I have not checked the eligibility rules.

Out of curiosity having lived all my life in the UK would we need to take the language test?

christmasoompa

You can make a H&C application, whether or not it's rejected will depend on your reasons for not returning to Canada. They'll have to be good reasons (somebody in hospital for a long time etc), and you'll need to show you maintained ties to Canada and always intended to return there. Given it's been 7 years and it doesn't seem you ever actually lived there, they'll need to be pretty compelling reasons!

It's much tougher for most now, that's why I asked. Do check to see if you're eligible - Determine your eligibility—Immigrate to Canada

Then if it says you are eligible under Express Entry (the new 'catch all' name for most economic immigration programs), you'll need to check your CRS score - Comprehensive Ranking System (CRS) tool - Skilled immigrants (Express Entry)

The way it works now is that all of those eligible as Skilled Workers apply to enter a 'pool' of applicants, and only those scoring the highest on the CRS are invited to apply for PR.

Yes. It's now mandatory for all FSW applications.

HTH, good luck.

Vulcanoid

From your 'the plan was to settle up and move over ... circumstances changed and we were unable to move', you don't say there are any compassionate grounds. For a successful application, the circumstances would probably need to be something like one parent dying, then the other rapidly deteriorating to need round-the-clock care. Something truly exceptional - finding a better job, or not wanting to interrupt a child's schooling wouldn't cut it.

Whether you need a language test depends on the stream you apply through. Some do, some don't.

You are still a PR until that status is removed, or you voluntarily surrender it - but either applying for a PRTD, or crossing the land border, the failure to meet the RO is likely to be detected. You can reduce this stage to 1 by flying to the US & crossing the land border, but the expired PR card is likely to lead to closer looks, and the discovery. If it doesn't, once in, don't leave for 2 years.

UK_Curious

How do I find if I need to do the language test?

How does the RO get detected. If one crosses the border and resides there for 2 years and then applies to renew the PR - would that work?

UK_Curious

To be honest my reasons for not going are my parents health. I lost my father last year in Oct 2016 and my mother is not best of health.

One thing after another stopped me taking the steps.

christmasoompa

As mentioned above, it's mandatory for all FSW applicants.

That's really your only option for applying now anyway, you could apply via PNP but that would usually involve getting a job offer first (although of course, depending on your CRS score, you may need one anyway to be in with a chance of being selected and invited to apply for PR). Plus if you don't take the language test, you won't get any points for your language ability under EE - so depending on your score, you might need to take it just to up your points level (as may your spouse if you have one, for some more points).

If you can get across the border without the immi officer noticing that you've not met your RO, then yes, you can do that. You'd need to not leave Canada at all for 2 years (even for a single day), once you've got the requisite 730 days in Canada you can then apply for a new PR card knowing that you have met your RO at that point.

HTH.

christmasoompa

Sorry to hear of your loss, but I don't think that will count as H&C grounds unfortunately. Health of family members would count if it was somebody on your application (i.e. your spouse) and they really couldn't travel (i.e. in hospital long term). But unfortunately ill/elderly parents are something most immigrants have to deal with and aren't really compelling circumstances for not returning to Canada, particularly for 7 years. Do you have a spouse and/or children? If you do, then H&C would be even less likely to be granted, as they could have returned to maintain PR status and ties to Canada even if you had to nurse an ill parent.

Vulcanoid

You get to the border. They say "This card is expired. And your last record of entry is seven years ago. Have you been in Canada? Can you prove it?"

In 2010 you asked how they would know if you were in the country, and were told that if it came to it, you would need to be able to prove it.

If you cross successfully and reside in Canada until you meet the RO, you can get a card again.

I'm sorry for your loss, but that was a year after your cards expired, and three years after you failed the Residency Obligation.

Former Lancastrian

IMHO the chances of you retaining your PR status for failing to meet the residency obligation of 730 days is slim to none.
Sure you could try entering Canada and hope CBSA officers don't discover this but the risk is high that they will discover this.
As you landed in 2010 and your father died in 2016 thats a 6 year gap and it showed in 2010 just by landing that his health at the time wasn't a major concern.

There are too many what ifs and nobody can give you a 100% answer or make the decision for you. If you didn't win your case if discovered and reported for it you would be ordered removed from Canada after the case is heard.

Read this manual regarding Loss of PR status.
http://www.cic.gc.ca/english/resourc.../enf23-eng.pdf

christmasoompa

OP - just in case you're not aware, FL is a CBSA officer, so he or his colleagues would be the ones making the decision when you try and enter Canada.

UK_Curious

It looks like the route to renewing PR is very slim or non-existent.

If I were to apply as self-employed (given that I run my own consultancy here in the UK and was looking to do my business when moving over). I have substantial capital to invest.

How long does that process take and can I take my family with me?

Given my lapsed PR would that affect my application?

Sorry for so many questions.

Former Lancastrian

Until you either voluntarily relinquish your PR status or a decision under section 46 of IRPA has been made applying for PR status while still legally being a PR is a no go. the PR situation needs to be sorted out before applying again. The link I posted tells you about loss of PR status and relinquishment voluntarily.
To save time and money and from my experience you would be better off voluntarily relinquishing PR status then applying for PR status by whatever route you are eligible for.
Your decision in the end.

christmasoompa

You can certainly try it, if you have the funds for flights and don't mind the risk. Your call - if you did want to reapply for PR, then you'll need to relinquish your PR first. Guide 5781 – Applying to Voluntarily Renounce Your Permanent Resident Status

What do you do? If you meet the requirements of the Self Employed visa (i.e. one of the eligible occupations such as athletics, farming or cultural activities), then that's an option but it's a lengthy one I'm afraid, current processing times are 63 months.

Another option would be the Start Up Visa, you could look at that maybe? That's much quicker, but you need to secure investment from a Canadian investor group or venture capital fund for that - Start-up Visa

No, as long as you've renounced it as above.

No probs, that's what BE is here for!