Sergei

I have recently downloaded PR card application guide from the CIC
web-site at
http://www.cic.gc.ca/english/pdf/kits/guides/5445E.PDF

and what I have noticed is that being present in Canada is no longer
one of the requirements to be elegible for a PR Card ( page 3 of the
Guide) . Neither was I able to find a requirement to mail it from
within Canada or photos to be made in Canada.

Does it make my application for PR Card sent from the USA perfectly
okay providing a Canadian public notary cerified all copies, photos
and application in compliance with the Guide?

I do realize that I still have to show up personally at a CIC office
to pick up my card.

Please comment.
Thanks

Rahul Dravid

I fully agree with you.I had a old copy of this application guide and after reading your post I compared it with the one you have mentioned and found out that the requirement to be eligible for the PR Card"must be physically present in Canada" missing.I downloaded my application guide way back in August last year.Same is true about the photographs.
Experts to please comment.

Sergei

Dear Andrew Miller, James Metcalfe, Jim Humphries, Berto Volpentesta,
Sylvia Ottemoeller and other gurus,

Any comment on the subject?

[email protected] (Sergei) wrote in message news:...
    > I have recently downloaded PR card application guide from the CIC
    > web-site at
    > http://www.cic.gc.ca/english/pdf/kits/guides/5445E.PDF
    >
    > and what I have noticed is that being present in Canada is no longer
    > one of the requirements to be elegible for a PR Card ( page 3 of the
    > Guide) . Neither was I able to find a requirement to mail it from
    > within Canada or photos to be made in Canada.
    >
    > Does it make my application for PR Card sent from the USA perfectly
    > okay providing a Canadian public notary cerified all copies, photos
    > and application in compliance with the Guide?
    >
    > I do realize that I still have to show up personally at a CIC office
    > to pick up my card.
    >
    > Please comment.
    > Thanks

Andrew Miller

Application guide is not the law. Read the law please.

--

../..

Andrew Miller
Immigration Consultant
Vancouver, British Columbia
email: [email protected]
(delete REMOVE from the above address before sending email)
________________________________


"Rahul Dravid" wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
    > I fully agree with you.I had a old copy of this application guide and
    > after reading your post I compared it with the one you have mentioned
    > and found out that the requirement to be eligible for the PR Card"must
    > be physically present in Canada" missing.I downloaded my application
    > guide way back in August last year.Same is true about the photographs.
    > Experts to please comment.
    > --
    > Posted via http://britishexpats.com

Sergei

Dear Mr. Miller,

Can you please quote here what the law says with regard to this matter
or refer us to the place where we can read the law? In the meanwhile
two Qs:

1. Why did the old guide have 4 requirements including being present
in Canada at the time of application and the new guide has only 3 reqs
nothing else has changed?

2. If the law says that being in Canada is one of the eligibility reqs
why would guide skip it? Is this guide of any use? Should we toss it
to the garbage can and use the law instead when filling applications
and puting the application package together? Is it a lack of
diligency on the CIC legal department side?

Your opinion will be highly appreciated.

Thanks

"Andrew Miller" wrote in message news:...
    > Application guide is not the law. Read the law please.
    >
    > --
    >
    > ../..
    >
    > Andrew Miller
    > Immigration Consultant
    > Vancouver, British Columbia
    > email: [email protected]
    > (delete REMOVE from the above address before sending email)
    > ________________________________
    >
    >
    > "Rahul Dravid" wrote in message
    > news:[email protected]...
    > >
    > > I fully agree with you.I had a old copy of this application guide and
    > > after reading your post I compared it with the one you have mentioned
    > > and found out that the requirement to be eligible for the PR Card"must
    > > be physically present in Canada" missing.I downloaded my application
    > > guide way back in August last year.Same is true about the photographs.
    > >
    > > Experts to please comment.
    > >
    > >
    > > --
    > > Posted via http://britishexpats.com

Tianfu Wang

The photographs are easy to make according the requirements, but what do you
do with the payment? Because you have to use the original form which you get
from CIC office, your friends can not pay it for you. I have problem with
this, please!

Sergei

Dear Mr. Miller,

Can you please quote here what the law says with regard to this matter
or refer us to the place where we can read the law? In the meanwhile
two Qs:

1. Why did the old guide have 4 requirements including being present
in Canada at the time of application and the new guide has only 3 reqs
nothing else has changed?

2. If the law says that being in Canada is one of the eligibility reqs
why would guide skip it? Is this guide of any use? Should we toss it
to the garbage can and use the law instead when filling applications
and puting the application package together? Is it a lack of
diligency on the CIC legal department side?

Your opinion will be highly appreciated.

Thanks

    > "Andrew Miller" wrote in message news:...
    > > Application guide is not the law. Read the law please.
    > >
    > > --
    > >
    > > ../..
    > >
    > > Andrew Miller
    > > Immigration Consultant
    > > Vancouver, British Columbia
    > > email: [email protected]
    > > (delete REMOVE from the above address before sending email)
    > > ________________________________
    > >
    > >
    > > "Rahul Dravid" wrote in message
    > > news:[email protected]...
    > > >
    > > > I fully agree with you.I had a old copy of this application guide and
    > > > after reading your post I compared it with the one you have mentioned
    > > > and found out that the requirement to be eligible for the PR Card"must
    > > > be physically present in Canada" missing.I downloaded my application
    > > > guide way back in August last year.Same is true about the photographs.
    > > >
    > > > Experts to please comment.
    > > >
    > > >
    > > > --
    > > > Posted via http://britishexpats.com

Andrew Miller

IRPA is here:

http://www.parl.gc.ca/37/1/parlbus/c.../C-11TOCE.html

and Regulations are here:

http://www.canlii.org/ca/regu/sor2-227/

BTW - if you just visit CIC website you'll find links to the above as well.

1. I don't know as I'm not in any way involved in design of those guides.
But I know that they are often full of mistakes and CIC always warns that
such guides are not the law and that you should refer to the law to be sure.

2. The law clearly says that PR Card can only be applied for and issued in
Canada.

--

../..

Andrew Miller
Immigration Consultant
Vancouver, British Columbia
email: [email protected]
(delete REMOVE from the above address before sending email)
________________________________




"Sergei" wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
    > Dear Mr. Miller,
    > Can you please quote here what the law says with regard to this matter
    > or refer us to the place where we can read the law? In the meanwhile
    > two Qs:
    > 1. Why did the old guide have 4 requirements including being present
    > in Canada at the time of application and the new guide has only 3 reqs
    > nothing else has changed?
    > 2. If the law says that being in Canada is one of the eligibility reqs
    > why would guide skip it? Is this guide of any use? Should we toss it
    > to the garbage can and use the law instead when filling applications
    > and puting the application package together? Is it a lack of
    > diligency on the CIC legal department side?
    > Your opinion will be highly appreciated.
    > Thanks
    > > "Andrew Miller" wrote in message
news:...
    > > > Application guide is not the law. Read the law please.
    > > >
    > > > --
    > > >
    > > > ../..
    > > >
    > > > Andrew Miller
    > > > Immigration Consultant
    > > > Vancouver, British Columbia
    > > > email: [email protected]
    > > > (delete REMOVE from the above address before sending email)
    > > > ________________________________
    > > >
    > > >
    > > > "Rahul Dravid" wrote in message
    > > > news:[email protected]...
    > > > >
    > > > > I fully agree with you.I had a old copy of this application guide
and
    > > > > after reading your post I compared it with the one you have
mentioned
    > > > > and found out that the requirement to be eligible for the PR
Card"must
    > > > > be physically present in Canada" missing.I downloaded my application
    > > > > guide way back in August last year.Same is true about the
photographs.
    > > > >
    > > > > Experts to please comment.
    > > > >
    > > > >
    > > > > --
    > > > > Posted via http://britishexpats.com

Sergei

Dear Mr. Miller,

Thanks a lot for the very useful links you posted here. I've been
looking for something like that for months and couldn't find.

Unfortunatly, I failed to find anything that would clearly state that
one has to be PRESENT in Canada when he/she FILES PR application.
Here's what I was able to find so far:

Immigration and Refugee Protection Regulations
PART 5 PERMANENT RESIDENTS
DIVISION 1 PERMANENT RESIDENT CARDS


55. A permanent resident card shall only be provided or issued in
Canada.
link: http://www.canlii.org/ca/regu/sor2-227/sec55%2Ehtml

AND

56. (2) An application for a permanent resident card made by an
applicant referred to in paragraph 53(1)(b) and an application for a
new permanent resident card must be made in Canada and include

link: http://www.canlii.org/ca/regu/sor2-227/sec56%2Ehtml scroll down
to (2)


Here is how I interpret 55
It cannot be issued and sent outside Canada, an applicant cannot
request delivery of PR to any Canadian Embassy or Consulate outside
Canada and Card can be mailed only to the address in Canada. So far so
good.

56. Interpritation. One cannot mail application from an address
outside Canada. So the application sent by ANYONE ( including lawyers,
immigration consultant, public notary, friend, bank clerk) from
CANADIAN address should be just fine regardless whether the applicant
is physically present in Canada or not.

I believe that the Guide was changed solely for the reason that it did
not comply with the Regulation. Old version of the Guide included the
reqs to be in Candada at the time of filing and the new one doen't
have it exactly becase it is not listed in the Regulation as one of
the reqs.

I have no formal legal education so maybe I am just plain wrong in my
interpritations. Lawyers please comment.

Side note to Tianfu Wang ([email protected]). You can order payment
and supplemental forms to be delivered to your
friend/lawyer/consultant in Canada and ask him/her to fedex 'forms to
Finland/Russia/Germany/etc. - fill in the forms and send it back to
you friend/lawyer/consultant in Canada and wire money along with
original copies of your passport, imm1000, and birthcertifictes. Your
friends can go to bank, make a payment and then file evrthng to CIC.

Please comment
Thanks






"Andrew Miller" wrote in message news:...
    > IRPA is here:
    >
    > http://www.parl.gc.ca/37/1/parlbus/c.../C-11TOCE.html
    >
    > and Regulations are here:
    >
    > http://www.canlii.org/ca/regu/sor2-227/
    >
    > BTW - if you just visit CIC website you'll find links to the above as well.
    >
    > 1. I don't know as I'm not in any way involved in design of those guides.
    > But I know that they are often full of mistakes and CIC always warns that
    > such guides are not the law and that you should refer to the law to be sure.
    >
    > 2. The law clearly says that PR Card can only be applied for and issued in
    > Canada.
    >
    > --
    >
    > ../..
    >
    > Andrew Miller
    > Immigration Consultant
    > Vancouver, British Columbia
    > email: [email protected]
    > (delete REMOVE from the above address before sending email)
    > ________________________________
    >
    >
    >
    >
    > "Sergei" wrote in message
    > news:[email protected]...
    > > Dear Mr. Miller,
    > >
    > > Can you please quote here what the law says with regard to this matter
    > > or refer us to the place where we can read the law? In the meanwhile
    > > two Qs:
    > >
    > > 1. Why did the old guide have 4 requirements including being present
    > > in Canada at the time of application and the new guide has only 3 reqs
    > > nothing else has changed?
    > >
    > > 2. If the law says that being in Canada is one of the eligibility reqs
    > > why would guide skip it? Is this guide of any use? Should we toss it
    > > to the garbage can and use the law instead when filling applications
    > > and puting the application package together? Is it a lack of
    > > diligency on the CIC legal department side?
    > >
    > > Your opinion will be highly appreciated.
    > >
    > > Thanks
    > >
    > > > "Andrew Miller" wrote in message
    > news:...
    > > > > Application guide is not the law. Read the law please.
    > > > >
    > > > > --
    > > > >
    > > > > ../..
    > > > >
    > > > > Andrew Miller
    > > > > Immigration Consultant
    > > > > Vancouver, British Columbia
    > > > > email: [email protected]
    > > > > (delete REMOVE from the above address before sending email)
    > > > > ________________________________
    > > > >
    > > > >
    > > > > "Rahul Dravid" wrote in message
    > > > > news:[email protected]...
    > > > > >
    > > > > > I fully agree with you.I had a old copy of this application guide
    > and
    > > > > > after reading your post I compared it with the one you have
    > mentioned
    > > > > > and found out that the requirement to be eligible for the PR
    > Card"must
    > > > > > be physically present in Canada" missing.I downloaded my application
    > > > > > guide way back in August last year.Same is true about the
    > photographs.
    > > > > >
    > > > > > Experts to please comment.
    > > > > >
    > > > > >
    > > > > > --
    > > > > > Posted via http://britishexpats.com

Andrew Miller

There is really nothing to comment - your interpretation will have to be
tested in real life and then contested in courts. Good luck with it...

But note that PR Card will not be mailed anywhere - only those who are newly
landed immigrants and sign forms during landing process have their Cards
mailed to their residential address in Canada. Everyone else (all who apply
in for PR Card at any other time) must pickup the Card in person at the
scheduled by CIC interview time from local CIC office. So, I don't really
see any benefit from your interpretation anyway.

--

../..

Andrew Miller
Immigration Consultant
Vancouver, British Columbia
email: [email protected]
(delete REMOVE from the above address before sending email)
________________________________


"Sergei" wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
    > Dear Mr. Miller,
    > Thanks a lot for the very useful links you posted here. I've been
    > looking for something like that for months and couldn't find.
    > Unfortunatly, I failed to find anything that would clearly state that
    > one has to be PRESENT in Canada when he/she FILES PR application.
    > Here's what I was able to find so far:
    > Immigration and Refugee Protection Regulations
    > PART 5 PERMANENT RESIDENTS
    > DIVISION 1 PERMANENT RESIDENT CARDS
    > 55. A permanent resident card shall only be provided or issued in
    > Canada.
    > link: http://www.canlii.org/ca/regu/sor2-227/sec55%2Ehtml
    > AND
    > 56. (2) An application for a permanent resident card made by an
    > applicant referred to in paragraph 53(1)(b) and an application for a
    > new permanent resident card must be made in Canada and include
    > link: http://www.canlii.org/ca/regu/sor2-227/sec56%2Ehtml scroll down
    > to (2)
    > Here is how I interpret 55
    > It cannot be issued and sent outside Canada, an applicant cannot
    > request delivery of PR to any Canadian Embassy or Consulate outside
    > Canada and Card can be mailed only to the address in Canada. So far so
    > good.
    > 56. Interpritation. One cannot mail application from an address
    > outside Canada. So the application sent by ANYONE ( including lawyers,
    > immigration consultant, public notary, friend, bank clerk) from
    > CANADIAN address should be just fine regardless whether the applicant
    > is physically present in Canada or not.
    > I believe that the Guide was changed solely for the reason that it did
    > not comply with the Regulation. Old version of the Guide included the
    > reqs to be in Candada at the time of filing and the new one doen't
    > have it exactly becase it is not listed in the Regulation as one of
    > the reqs.
    > I have no formal legal education so maybe I am just plain wrong in my
    > interpritations. Lawyers please comment.
    > Side note to Tianfu Wang ([email protected]). You can order payment
    > and supplemental forms to be delivered to your
    > friend/lawyer/consultant in Canada and ask him/her to fedex 'forms to
    > Finland/Russia/Germany/etc. - fill in the forms and send it back to
    > you friend/lawyer/consultant in Canada and wire money along with
    > original copies of your passport, imm1000, and birthcertifictes. Your
    > friends can go to bank, make a payment and then file evrthng to CIC.
    > Please comment
    > Thanks
    > "Andrew Miller" wrote in message
news:...
    > > IRPA is here:
    > >
    > >
http://www.parl.gc.ca/37/1/parlbus/c.../C-11TOCE.html
    > >
    > > and Regulations are here:
    > >
    > > http://www.canlii.org/ca/regu/sor2-227/
    > >
    > > BTW - if you just visit CIC website you'll find links to the above as
well.
    > >
    > > 1. I don't know as I'm not in any way involved in design of those
guides.
    > > But I know that they are often full of mistakes and CIC always warns
that
    > > such guides are not the law and that you should refer to the law to be
sure.
    > >
    > > 2. The law clearly says that PR Card can only be applied for and issued
in
    > > Canada.
    > >
    > > --
    > >
    > > ../..
    > >
    > > Andrew Miller
    > > Immigration Consultant
    > > Vancouver, British Columbia
    > > email: [email protected]
    > > (delete REMOVE from the above address before sending email)
    > > ________________________________
    > >
    > >
    > >
    > >
    > > "Sergei" wrote in message
    > > news:[email protected]...
    > > > Dear Mr. Miller,
    > > >
    > > > Can you please quote here what the law says with regard to this matter
    > > > or refer us to the place where we can read the law? In the meanwhile
    > > > two Qs:
    > > >
    > > > 1. Why did the old guide have 4 requirements including being present
    > > > in Canada at the time of application and the new guide has only 3 reqs
    > > > nothing else has changed?
    > > >
    > > > 2. If the law says that being in Canada is one of the eligibility reqs
    > > > why would guide skip it? Is this guide of any use? Should we toss it
    > > > to the garbage can and use the law instead when filling applications
    > > > and puting the application package together? Is it a lack of
    > > > diligency on the CIC legal department side?
    > > >
    > > > Your opinion will be highly appreciated.
    > > >
    > > > Thanks
    > > >
    > > > > "Andrew Miller" wrote in
message
    > > news:...
    > > > > > Application guide is not the law. Read the law please.
    > > > > >
    > > > > > --
    > > > > >
    > > > > > ../..
    > > > > >
    > > > > > Andrew Miller
    > > > > > Immigration Consultant
    > > > > > Vancouver, British Columbia
    > > > > > email: [email protected]
    > > > > > (delete REMOVE from the above address before sending email)
    > > > > > ________________________________
    > > > > >
    > > > > >
    > > > > > "Rahul Dravid" wrote in message
    > > > > > news:[email protected]...
    > > > > > >
    > > > > > > I fully agree with you.I had a old copy of this application
guide
    > > and
    > > > > > > after reading your post I compared it with the one you have
    > > mentioned
    > > > > > > and found out that the requirement to be eligible for the PR
    > > Card"must
    > > > > > > be physically present in Canada" missing.I downloaded my
application
    > > > > > > guide way back in August last year.Same is true about the
    > > photographs.
    > > > > > >
    > > > > > > Experts to please comment.
    > > > > > >
    > > > > > >
    > > > > > > --
    > > > > > > Posted via http://britishexpats.com

Rahul Dravid

Where are James Metcalfe, Jim Humphries, Berto Volpentesta,
Sylvia Ottemoeller and other gurus.Need your comments as well.

Andrew Miller

Law hasn't changed, period.

--

../..

Andrew Miller
Immigration Consultant
Vancouver, British Columbia
email: [email protected]
(delete REMOVE from the above address before sending email)
________________________________


"Rahul Dravid" wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
    > Where are James Metcalfe, Jim Humphries, Berto Volpentesta,
    > Sylvia Ottemoeller and other gurus.Need your comments as well.
    > --
    > Posted via http://britishexpats.com

Rahul Dravid

Dear Readers,
The following is an extract of the answer by an expert in response to a question by someone at another forum.Here are his comments.

"I think you are confusing the people on this Forum. PR Card Guide does not say that you have to personally come to Canada to apply for the PR Card. All it says is that the photgraphs and all documents must be attested by concerned authorities (such as lawyers) based in Canada and the attenstation date should not be more than 6 months old. So anyone from abroad can still have a tie-up with a lawyer in Canada and still apply for the PR Card from abroad. So this saves one trip to Canada for many people, provided they have a canada-based lawyer who is willing to do the job for them.

But to pick up the Card, the applicant(s) has to come in person."

WHOM SHOULD WE BELIEVE.

Rahul Dravid

and to add more to this controversy someone in the same forum says

"Yes, I had already got my pr card on June 20th. I sent my application from abroad with Canadian lawyer signature at the end of January . My friend brought my application back to Canada and posted it for me. "

Pmm

Hi Rahul

"Rahul Dravid" wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
    > and to add more to this controversy someone in the same forum says
    > "Yes, I had already got my pr card on June 20th. I sent my application
    > from abroad with Canadian lawyer signature at the end of January . My
    > friend brought my application back to Canada and posted it for me. "
    > --
    > Posted via http://britishexpats.com

I doubt it, since you have to pick up your card in person if you were landed
prior to 28/06/02.

PMM