Vladimir Menkov

I have always been a bit amused by all those posts from people
complaining about difficulties getting a PR card. You'd think, what's
so complicated here: go to HRDC to certify a few photocopies for free,
have photos taken, find a guarantor (or get thyself to a notary or a
Commissioner for Oaths, if you neither belong to the class of people
who hobnob with mayors, MPs, lawyers and postmaster on daily basis,
nor are sick enough to have doctors and dentists "personally know you"
for 2 years), pay the fee, send everything to Sydney making sure no
pages are folded or creased, check your mail daily or call CIC every
few months if no mail shows up, and voila! you have your card is your
hands in 4-6 months, at the total cost of less than $100.

However, yesterday I talked to friends, Ukrainian citizens, who
actually have a genuine problem satisfying the documentary
requirements. The PR card application lists submitting a photocopy of
the applicant's passport (or a Canadian travel document) as an
absolute requirement. However, Ukraine normally does not issue
passports to children under 16 years of age; the usual practice is to
list them in a parent's passport.

Of course, Canada makes having an individual passport a requirement
for obtaining a PR visa and for landing. So the following _modus
vivendi_ has apparently developed between the Canadian embassy in
Ukraine and the Ukrainian passport office: Ukraine provides emigrant
children with something called a "Travel Document of a Child" (a cute
little blue booklet, sort of like a kiddie-size passport), and CIC
accepts those Travel Documents in lieu of passports, for the purposes
of visa issuance and landing. However, the PR Card Center staff in
Sydney, NS does not seem to be all that aware of this arrangment: when
someone else we know tried to submit a copy of that document with a PR
Card application, the application was promptly (in 3 month's time,
that is) returned to them. The FAQ is pretty adamant about
the passport thing too:
http://www.cic.gc.ca/english/pr-card/prc-issues.html , question 7.

I was asked to recommend a suitable course of action in this
situation, and really couldn't. My main suggestion was as follows:

(1) Try to apply with a photocopy of the Travel Document anyway, and
enclose a cover letter asking the PR Card Office to accept it in lieu
of a passport, considering this *is* a document that is referred by
number in the Record of Landing and was stamped by CIC border control
on landing. If this does not work, go on the planned foreign trip
(back to Ukraine for a summer vacation, actually) anyway, and apply
for a Canadian Travel Document (a single-use re-entry visa) at the
Canadian Consulate in Kyiv.

There are other obvious options, but they are impractically costly or
time-consuming:

(2) Try to a get the passport for the child from the Ukrainian
Consulate in Toronto. But even if this succeeds, it will run into
several hundreds of dollars by the time it's done, considering having
to comply with various other consular requirements.

(3) Apply for a Certificate of Identity from the Canadian Passport
Office. The PR Card application form says that this thing is
acceptable instead of a passport; and the Ukrainian policy (or just
practice?) of not issuing passports to children is perhaps a "valid
reason" for applying for the CI. But it is both costly and
time-consuming, and the entire idea of getting a CI just to get a PR
card seems rather weird to me.

Would any expert care to comment?


--vladimir

James Metcalfe

Vladimir

Thank you for the informative posting. Different offices have differnet
approaches to the problem of children on passports. We just became aware of
the nice blue document being required for the first time this week. No doubt
as the person is coming to Canada with their visa they wil get their PR card
automatically. I think your advice is right on as far as challenging the
card centres decison. It mets the definition of passport for the issuance of
a visa, why not a PR card. If I had the time and the inclination I would
write to the powers that be in Ottawa and raise the issue but alas I am too
occupied solving other probems.

Jim metcalfe

"Vladimir Menkov" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
    > I have always been a bit amused by all those posts from people
    > complaining about difficulties getting a PR card. You'd think, what's
    > so complicated here: go to HRDC to certify a few photocopies for free,
    > have photos taken, find a guarantor (or get thyself to a notary or a
    > Commissioner for Oaths, if you neither belong to the class of people
    > who hobnob with mayors, MPs, lawyers and postmaster on daily basis,
    > nor are sick enough to have doctors and dentists "personally know you"
    > for 2 years), pay the fee, send everything to Sydney making sure no
    > pages are folded or creased, check your mail daily or call CIC every
    > few months if no mail shows up, and voila! you have your card is your
    > hands in 4-6 months, at the total cost of less than $100.
    > However, yesterday I talked to friends, Ukrainian citizens, who
    > actually have a genuine problem satisfying the documentary
    > requirements. The PR card application lists submitting a photocopy of
    > the applicant's passport (or a Canadian travel document) as an
    > absolute requirement. However, Ukraine normally does not issue
    > passports to children under 16 years of age; the usual practice is to
    > list them in a parent's passport.
    > Of course, Canada makes having an individual passport a requirement
    > for obtaining a PR visa and for landing. So the following _modus
    > vivendi_ has apparently developed between the Canadian embassy in
    > Ukraine and the Ukrainian passport office: Ukraine provides emigrant
    > children with something called a "Travel Document of a Child" (a cute
    > little blue booklet, sort of like a kiddie-size passport), and CIC
    > accepts those Travel Documents in lieu of passports, for the purposes
    > of visa issuance and landing. However, the PR Card Center staff in
    > Sydney, NS does not seem to be all that aware of this arrangment: when
    > someone else we know tried to submit a copy of that document with a PR
    > Card application, the application was promptly (in 3 month's time,
    > that is) returned to them. The FAQ is pretty adamant about
    > the passport thing too:
    > http://www.cic.gc.ca/english/pr-card/prc-issues.html , question 7.
    > I was asked to recommend a suitable course of action in this
    > situation, and really couldn't. My main suggestion was as follows:
    > (1) Try to apply with a photocopy of the Travel Document anyway, and
    > enclose a cover letter asking the PR Card Office to accept it in lieu
    > of a passport, considering this *is* a document that is referred by
    > number in the Record of Landing and was stamped by CIC border control
    > on landing. If this does not work, go on the planned foreign trip
    > (back to Ukraine for a summer vacation, actually) anyway, and apply
    > for a Canadian Travel Document (a single-use re-entry visa) at the
    > Canadian Consulate in Kyiv.
    > There are other obvious options, but they are impractically costly or
    > time-consuming:
    > (2) Try to a get the passport for the child from the Ukrainian
    > Consulate in Toronto. But even if this succeeds, it will run into
    > several hundreds of dollars by the time it's done, considering having
    > to comply with various other consular requirements.
    > (3) Apply for a Certificate of Identity from the Canadian Passport
    > Office. The PR Card application form says that this thing is
    > acceptable instead of a passport; and the Ukrainian policy (or just
    > practice?) of not issuing passports to children is perhaps a "valid
    > reason" for applying for the CI. But it is both costly and
    > time-consuming, and the entire idea of getting a CI just to get a PR
    > card seems rather weird to me.
    > Would any expert care to comment?
    > --vladimir