misskatpaw

Hello all,

My husband & I have spent quite a bit of time on the forum recently, having printed off the forms to apply for immigration under the FSW program (husband is a Joiner, supervisor/contractor - NOC 7215).

We think & hope that we attain 67 points. The grey area (as what seems like usual for a lot of folk) is the eduction points, in this case for my husband Marc. If he gets 20 points for education, then we are fine. If he is only able to get 15 or 12 points, we wouldn't make 67. (My circumstances as the adaptability points are irrelevant. I wouldn't get enough to make up the shortfall in any case).

What I'm wondering is, can people please tell me of their personal experiences of similar situations with education. Marc has done 12yrs at school (including primary school) and a 2yr diploma to NVQ level 2 in joinery.

When we initially took the points test, we simply thought, 12 + 2 = 14yrs full time study, equals 20 points (also seemed the right one as this was also the only category detailing a 2yr diploma/apprentiship.) Now, there seems to be that word 'AND' which keeps jumping out at us. "2yr diploma AND 14yrs study"

I have been looking thru' previous posts and trying to find answers to our query, I note that many forum users in the past have posted stated cases. I've read through these also. All the "subsection this" and "paragraph that" of these cases serve to confuse even more sometimes! However it does seem that people have been allowed 20 points on 14yrs full time study, including their 2yr diploma. But then people also say, primary education doesn't count, then others say that it does count.

What I'd really like to know is what others have gone through. Can people please post some of their personal experiences regarding this type of situation they have been in and been through? Positive or otherwise. Did you apply under similar circumstances or not?

If we felt confident with the overall solution, we'd immediately do one of two things - 1) submit our application down FSW route with 67 points (poss 70 depending on me) or, 2) go down the route of Marc trying gain employment when we go back to Canada in the spring, the world of LMO's and all that

If we did chose option 1 and sent off ONLY our initial application & fees to Nova Scotia. If they then reject us at this stage, prior to asking us to send supporting docs to London, is that our $1100 gone or not?

I also realise Immigration Consultants are an option, but will help you part with a substantial amount of cash in the process - now, we could cope with that if we knew it was the right thing to do (we realise it's not the consultant who decides you can live in Canada but the Immigration Officer at the Canadian High Commission or wherever they are!). Overall, I don't think our situation would be classed as complex. No kids, no criminal history, good health, no gaps in education/employment etc......so we feel we'd only be employing a consultant to DEFINITIVELY ANSWER our initial point scoring question.......

........help!!!!!

Lady Locket

Hello!

Primary education does count, and I would suggest from our experience that it would qualify for the 20 points but please - don't take that as fact! We didn't pay for an immigration lawyer because they are very expensive and unless your case is complex it is not worth it, but we did get very cheeky and used an immigration lawyer touting for business to go through our application with us and 'answer our queries' Best consultation we ever had - he basically told us what we already worked out but had wobbles over. Put our minds at ease.

With regards to paying the initial fee and then being rejected... I am afraid to say that yes you will lose that money. We have taken the risk, filled out the forms, paid the fee and are just keeping our fingers crossed it goes through ok.

Many people on here filled out their own FSW applications, and have been very helpful with us when we have had queries over paperwork - I am sure you will find the same.

LL

stokesey

As you say this has been discussed many times and there is no definative answer, we've applied under FSW (NOC 0111) and hoping that the NVQ level 3 will be accepted to give us either 15 or 20 points depending on how they score the years education, some say you get 11 years for primary & secondary and some say 12, I've read in another thread that in Scotland you can complete compulsary schooling in 11 years but U.K is 12 years?

Good luck....

Zoomer

Hello
Not sure where you're targeting for travel, however Province of Ontario (www.gov.on.ca) has a newcomers thing that may be able to give you some guideance. Sorry, don't recall their name off the top of my head but if you're good at ferretting around on websites you should be able to locate it. Best of luck!

PaulOK

I understand that this can be maddening and I will try to relate my experience of a few years ago when I was calculating my points. I claimed 22 points based upon my 12 years schooling plus 3 years full time equivalent study on a 4 year apprenticeship. I wouldn't get too hung up on that word "AND". I read it as "you are a holder of two-year diploma, trade certificate or apprenticeship (which you are) and your study time is at least 14 years full time or full time equivalent (which you have)". Look at this example from the guide IMM EG7000 (09-2009):

Example 2: If you have a four-year Bachelor's degree and have completed 14 or more years of study, award yourself 20 points.

Now, substitute in a two-year diploma for your case and you have 20 points.

I did this and CHC seem to have accepted my claimed points total.

misskatpaw

Hi again everyone,

Thanks very much for your swift replies, I do feel that they have really helped so far. The info about definately losing your $1100 from Lady Locket & that Primary Ed does count is great.

We're targetting Kamloops, BC as our eventual destination, as we have some friends there whom we stayed with for a week or 2 when we were over last May-June on a month's recce. Our friends contacts would hopefully be a secondary hope for us, helping Marc to get a job offer/LMO if we needed it. But who knows!

This is why needing to make our decision is so important, as either we just apply under FSW program hoping we have 67 points OR we use some of our saved money to go over again in April/May on a mass job hunt to try & secure the extra 10 points (I believe, for the job offer). However that's money we don't need to spend if we are going down the route of option one!

The way PaulOK has submitted their application is the same way that we want to, so you have given us hope!!

What other experiences have people had regarding this? Your stories and experiences do really help as you don't half feel alone, sat on the laptop for hours, trawling backwards & forwards through what seems like thousands of web pages, sometimes wanting to scream!! ha

Many thanks again!

misskatpaw

Does anyone else have any other education point scoring experiences that they could share?

It would be really helpful, cheers

lins and Stef McLachlan

Hi

Sorry this is a long post

We were involved in the 'Scotland' education thing. We were refused when CHC took a years education, so 5 points, off of us. In Scotland the compulsory secondary education is for 4 years...my husband then chose to stay for another year...they said he had just repeated a year and disallowed it. We took them to Federal Court under Judicial Review and won our case.

Ours was 7 primary, 5 secondary = 12 + 2 years post secondary qualification Apprenticeship/trade certificate......The years are one element and the Level of attainment is another.....so you count the school years plus the post secondary years......so in our case 14 years....then the level of attainment.

You are most welcome to read the decision....it is long winded, so go to the analysis part. Here is the link
http://decisions.fct-cf.gc.ca/en/200...2009fc975.html

In a nutshell what they have found is that if there is doubt over the years, then the Visa Officer should look at the level attained...as you couldn't get the higher level unless you had the basics....makes sense to me.

Also there was the adaptability criteria. They state that if an applicants spouse had enough points in their own right, that they could have made their own application....It would be worth more points. I gave myself 2 points...but should in that case have been given 4.

When they tallied our points up once they had taken the 5 points off us we were only 2 points short....which this latter finding would have carried us through as I was actually worth 2 more points.

Policy is currently being rewritten based on our case....and that should help others in a similar situation.....but it did not help us, as it cost us $4500 to take it to court and delayed our immigration plans by another 18 months or more....of course in the meantime world markets have crashed and we find ourselves at a great financial disadvantage as a consequence. We did ask for costs but were not awarded them.

As for the NVQ qualifications, I can't say whether they would give you the higher level...maybe a phone call to a college to ask what their equivalency would be, may answer your question.

I do hope this has helped
Good luck negotiating the minefield
lol
Stef

misskatpaw

Hiya Steph,

Yes, you have really helped.

I've read through your stated case in as much detail as I can do at this time of night and after 3 G+T's!! I am happy now that we should be OK for the 20 points...and ultimately 67, based on our circumstances. Therefore we shall be wasting no time in getting going with posting our application!

I don't see the logic in you not being awarded costs though...at the end of the day, the decision made by the Imm.Off was wrong & you rightly challenged this at what I imagine was with a great deal of difficulty & of course expense, so as to be treated correctly, fairly & justly. Not the way you would've preferred to blow nearly $5k eh? Doesn't seem right it should've been ultimately at your expense!

Anyway, thanks again Steph.

Still though, any other experiences would be helpful. Cheers

trumptons

[QUOTE=Lady Locket;8125372]Hello!


With regards to paying the initial fee and then being rejected... I am afraid to say that yes you will lose that money. We have taken the risk, filled out the forms, paid the fee and are just keeping our fingers crossed it goes through ok.



If the CIO determine you are eligible they will refund you your intial fees.

lins and Stef McLachlan

Hi
Glad you found it helpful, at least our case is a legal finding......so cannot be challenged or mis-interpreted
Good luck with your application, and please let us know how things go.
lol
Stef

misskatpaw

Hi Steph, yeah we will let you know!

Hi trumptons...when you say "If the CIO determine you are eligible they will refund you your intial fees."...i'm not exactly sure what you mean? That appears to contradict the fact that you don't get refunded if you're not eligible at the Nova Scotia stage? (not sure how to do the 'quote boxes!')

Cheers, katie

trumptons

Hi trumptons...when you say "If the CIO determine you are eligible they will refund you your intial fees."...i'm not exactly sure what you mean? That appears to contradict the fact that you don't get refunded if you're not eligible at the Nova Scotia stage? (not sure how to do the 'quote boxes!')

Cheers, katie[/QUOTE]

Hello - no I can't do the quote thing either. I copied the refund part above form the CIO website and it has always been my understanding that if you are ineligible you are refunded, there is also another stage when you submit your documents. If you withdraw before processing you can also be refunded.

Can anyone else throw some light on this?

joinerboy

Hi
If Sydney refuse your application you will receive a refund for the initial processing fees you have paid. But remember all Sydney are bothered about is the correct NOC has been applied to your application forms and the forms have been fully completed ( no blanks ). . It's only once London receive your full pack including all your supporting documents they really start to checkout the contain and once London has started then no refund is available.
Also remember Its London that check you have the minimum points required so it can be several months into the application process having paid your fees that London issue a refusal on points, this has happened already to others who have applied.
Best of luck.
Regards
Joinerboy

rschatha

Hi Joinerboy,

Just a throught IF London CIC refuse FSW PR Applications on Points, and you miss the 67 point mark, will the accept the Application AGAIN once you have
made up the points i.e. Language etc , OR would have RE-APPLY and go through the whole process again?

Cheers