dbd33

Yes, the garbage calendar comes from the government. French is not an important language here but lots of others are :

http://www.toronto.ca/quality_of_life/diversity.htm

government communications are routinely available in all these languages.

Which members of the UK cabinet were born outside the UK ?

dbd33

So, now it's a welcoming place for Turks ?

Butch Cassidy

since when has the cabinet been the government?

dbd33

It is the inner circle. It is where the power is. Here's the Canadian one :

http://www.parl.gc.ca/information/ab...min.asp?lang=E

you can use the names and the pictures to help you guess which are immigrants and, for the most part, you'd be right.

Here's the Governer General :

http://www.gg.ca/menu_e.asp

she's from Haiti. Here's the previous one, she's from Hong Kong :

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Adrienne_Clarkson

The UK doesn't have immigrants in power to anything like the same degree Canada does. I would have thought this an attraction for a foreigner, such as yourself, even if it gives the religious right fits.

macadian

Perhaps I am missing something here? Seems those voters who are of the right are seen as being the 'religious right'?


My politics are of the right but religeous?.....I don't think so! Can I assure all and sundry that people of 'conservative persuasions' are not religous zealots, do not necessarily oppose abortion per sae (womans choice as far as I am concerned), want to privatise the health service etc...we simply have a differing opinion on issues such as the justice system, crime & punishment, defence etc to name but a few. So lay off the 'religious right' crap...for the majority I suspect, it does not apply. The issues however do! Conservative voters on the whole are just the same as anyone else but till now, have had the termerity to disgree with the main stream on certain issues. Zealots? Come across a few in all walks of life, whatever their politcal affiliations.

Have a nice day.

iaink

The problem is not the religous convictions of those voting for the conservatives, its the religous convictions of those conservatives who are being voted for (and one in particular)!

The fear is that there is more to this than just tax cuts and a percieved "clean" government, and I wonder how many babys we will as a nation be throwing out with the bathwater.

macadian

Sorry...was abviously editing my post while you were responding with yours...hence the desparity with what you have quoted, and what it looks like now.

Butch Cassidy

Now Mac you have raised an issue that often cause me concern\confusion.
In my (limited perhaps) mind Conservative Politics = Free Market, Free choice, Little government intervention, Protection of the right to own and to excercise the right own, etc etc.
I have never associated it with religious zealots per se. However it is true to say right of centre parties are drifting more and more to the anti-abortion and (in most cases) racial supremacy model. It is this aspect of the Candian Conservative party that worries me!
HOWEVER I stand by my previous comment that something has to be done to shake up the current status quo in Ottawa and if that means Harper is PM of a minority govt well we will have to hope to (our own personal) god that the reactionaries backing him are kept down.

macadian

The question of abortion, racial supremecy etc, have not factored at all in those I associate with who are voting Tory. These issues do not feature at all as to why they will be voting as they do. Crime & punshment, the justice system (or innefectiveness of same) have been major factors. As I have stated, Zelots exist in all walks of life and Canada is no exception.

Reactionaries? Well if Tony Blair can suppress the 'looney left', perhaps Mr Harper can suppress the 'looney right'. Extremism exists to varying degrees in all parties (as we have witnessed on this forum) the only thing that differs is the particular brand of dogma.

We all wish for a better Canada...democracy is the vehicle we hope will take us there...

Amen

iaink

And that is what is scary, its such a selfish outlook. So, its OK to vote for a party with the potential for a scary hidden neocon agenda as long as it checks the boxes for the other factors?

Hmm, history seems to have taught us nothing.

A conservative minority government might at least be tempered by the supporting minority (presumably the strange bedfellow NDP?), but a conservative majority would be ...er interesting? to watch the results. The difference between the PCs and new labour is that Harper will not be interested in reigning in the looney right...he's one of them!

I will try and maintain morale by counting the extra pennies in my pocket, and hope they dont do irreperable damage to the things that make Canada different (better) than the US. With any luck they will do such a fine job that the Liberals are returned next time around and the memories will keep them there for another 20 years Thats the great thing about democracy

macadian

I note that of all the points I raised in my last post, you have selected one sentence...then put your own 'twist' on it.

What is scary? Another 4 years of Martin & Co is scary....:scared:

What is scary is a Justice system that has not recognized the the Juvenille offenders Legislation does not work! (possibly because it is a Liberal bill)

What is scary that the guy who mugged you for your loose change last month is back out on the street this month to mug you again!

What is scary is the Drunk driver who has been convicted of DUI 14 times and has yet to go to jail....

I could go on.

All the good things that whatever party make available to the people pales a little when the Justice system does not ensure that you can enjoy such benefits free of the fear of crime. OK...its not Chicago...but lets make sure it never is....or that the rural Canada does not catch up with such as the GTA.

Rant over (for now )

iaink

Not as scary, no. Better the devil you know.


As far as the crime thing goes, just look how out of control the situation has got in the UK with the labour government trying to impose harsher and harsher controls on the situation. Heres an interesting article
I realise its from the Guardian...dont worry, reading it wont automatically turn you into a pinko liberal overnight...its well thought out and makes the point more eloquently than I could!

Its politics, we aren't going to agree. Time to move on. My votes cast, bugger all else I can do. Lets meet back here 4 years (2 years if its another minority government ) from now and see what has changed for better or worse

JAJ

If people in general took that viewpoint then there would *never* be a change of government.



Jeremy

iaink

Untrue, the problem this time around is that both viable candidates appear to be Devils.

Im not disagreeing entirely with the daiper analogy, something is/was rotten in the liberal party, maybe its fixed, maybe its not.

The thing for me is that if Harper was say Joe Clark...an old fashioned "small c" conservative, I would not be at all worried, the Liberals would have a time out to clean up their act/image and nothing drastic would probably happen. Its the fact that Harper is a pure US model "neocon" conservative kind that is giving me chills. I simply do not trust him with this country as far as I could spit him while chewing gum. He will not stand up for the little guy and he will roll over if the US tickle his tummy.

Better the devil I know.

JAJ

Don't you think he would want to be re-elected (a few years down the line) if he got in?



Jeremy