New To Vancouver

I think the new law is going to really improve the chances of unemployed landed
immigrants in the I.T profession. Today I met with a reputed I.T placement firm for a
permenant position with a top Vancouver firm. I have a
M.S in Comp. Science from a darn good U.S university with a 4.0 GPA and seven years
of employment with a reputed Big Six company (with Canadian presence and
recognition). I had to sweat my arse off to be where I was before coming to Canada,
not to speak of the dollars spent. While the I.T placement guy raved and ranted
about how "impressive" my resume was, I asked him why I never got any interview
calls in the past. He informed me that despite being restrictive in job ads, they
still get about 200 resumes a day mostly from laid off H1Bs and newly landed
immigrants with dubious work experience and degrees. Because of this trend, most of
the hiring managers don't bother to even give a cursory glance at resumes with
foriegn names (whether it is discrimination or not is not the point of this
discussion). He explained that this was probably the reason why my resume slipped
through the gap in most of the places where I sent resumes.

In addition to the new regulations I love the emphasis on Canadian
education/experience as adaptability factors for extra points. I wish they made it
North American (to include good US schools).

I think a diploma from some training institue in India or a Bachelor's degree from
some private institutions (self financed colleges where money gets you in) and a few
years of experience with a body shop in the U.S does not make someone a "Skilled IT
professional". These degrees and diploma's are earned purely for immigration not
because of one's intrest in the IT arena or even gainful empoyment. As a former
hiring manager myself, I have talked to many candidates in the past to come to this
conclusion.

I was also a H1B guy in the US until recently. When I went to school to study, it was
more because I was genuinely intrested in my field of study and the hot IT job was an
important fringe benefit as was immigration prospects (which during my school days
was not even an important factor).

A few years back anyone that could spell Computers got a job and most of the really
skilled I.T folks were left in the lurch because they were not exagerating stuff on
thier resumes. This I think is going to be the future trend in IT employment and I
think this should be the immigration policy too.

I feel sorry for folks that waited long for the immigration to go through, but I also
feel sorry for candidates in a similar boat as me whose education/experience did not
seem to matter during the IT boom years.

I think this policy is going to reduce the pool of IT folks in the market with
borderline skills and enhance employment oppurtunity for talented folks in the years
to come. Of course the folks that have a decent education/ work experience will make
the 80 points. With the new matrix I would have just about made 80.

I wrote this message as frustrated/unemployed IT professional rather than from a
immigrat's standpoint. If I were, in the shoes of someone who was caught in the
immigration pipe-line, I may have felt otherwise ...understandably.

John

IT Job market is dying now . So don't think that increasing point system for
immigration purpose will increase chance of your employment. Moreover I think that IT
professions salary and status was highly inflated compared to other technical jobs
like electrical, mechanical, civil engineering. So it's demand,status and salary is
probably going through some corrections.

Do you know that lots of bright engineers immigrated to Canada from different
countries are unemployed and becoming frustrated. Most of them have more talent than
part of IT professional and they don't have dubious experience rather they were very
potential in their respective fields. Still they are not getting job . So your
observation is not correct.

I still feel sorry for candidates in a similar boat as you whose education/experience
did not seem to matter during the IT boom years and worried about more saturation in
IT job market.

John

"New To Vancouver" <[email protected]>
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jaihanumanjee

Hey new 2 vancouver,
Which great collge you passed out from US and in India?
Let us hear it.

vivekg

No matter how good u r u cannot get to the magical 80 pts if u don't have the a job offer.

My case:
Age 27 = 10 pts

Post Grad. in Computer Sc: =25 pts

Language: English (TOEFL score 270) = 16pts

Exprn 4 yrs = 25 pts

Arranged employment : none

Adaptability:
Single, Never worked in Canada (Worked in the US big mistake should have tried Canada...) No family in Canada

So I make it just to 76 pts ..... No matter what u do have to have a job offer or learn French....

New To Vancouver

I see your point. For married people perhaps it works. It just about puts you around
80 points if your wife has a Bachelor's degree. This is assuming they give 16 points
for language based on TOEFL alone. Maybe for Single people, they would consider 75
perhaps ? My whole point is merely the fact *no matter* how qualified you are, there
simply aren't any jobs here in IT. The I.T job market is closed unless your resume
has experience from companies that have name recognition in Canada. For me it has
been very frustrating .. I have been here for three months and thought I had
everything right to land a job. I even forsaked my U.S green card to move here. I was
not laid off or anything. IT jobs may be harder to come by, but IT is still the
fastest growing industry. They really ought to let the economy absorb people already
here before letting in 100,000 more laid off people in here. Belive me , wherever you
are, you cannot be worse off than being qualified for jobs and forced to look at
pizza delivery to make ends meet. I am not trying to demean that job, but merely
stating that your job has to reflect your skills/education for personal satisfaction
if not anything else.

My point is an PR status in Canada is not worth it if you can't find a job to your
liking. 80 points or 100 points ..it does'nt matter. There simply are no jobs.
Application programming unfortunately does'nt require any specialized degree. Thus
"less qualified" people and "more qualified people" do the same job. "Why pay more
for skills that I don't need" is what the employers seem to be saying. That is really
my gripe with body shop H1Bs with NIIT diploma's. I really think they lowered the
quality of programming profession. Nothing to do with ethinicity. Just the concept of
"visa" mills and people just claiming the "Programmer" title to come to the US.

When you go to a grad school you build a lot of intangible skills that the
certificate courses don't provide. Why do you think companies still actively do
campus recruting and not pick up H1Bs with "dubious" qualifications. A lot of laid
off H1B people are willing to work for minimum wage in programming profession to
maintain status. Still no takers. Wonder why ?

I am myself considering moving South again. An H1B status (with any stigma
percieved) with a decent paycheck is better than a coveted "PR" status doing nothing
and watching your savings erode. It is still not too hard to find a job in the US
with the right networking skills and qualifications. . The sad reality is whether
you are a PR or Citizen or H1B or illegal you are always a "foriegner". This is not
just Canada or US . Even in India if you don't confirm to a majority you are always
an outsider. (The folks here are very nice.) Might as well make some dough with that
tag don't you think ?

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New To Vancouver

I graduated from BITS in India. From Rutgers University in the U.S. Have a
PMP/PMI certification as well as Java Architect Certification and a whole bunch
of other crap. Still no jobs. Worked as a senior consultant before moving here
about three months.

What else do you want to know ?? From your earlier postings here I can tell you
missed the boat with the new point system. This obviously means you have less than
the required employment experience and/or education to make 75. Since you complain
about losing your money, I assume you have already applied (so 80 does not apply to
you). With the new regs and similar qualifications it is not that hard to make 76.
Even 80 if your wife has a college degree.

If you don't make 75 I think you stand no chance of employment in this economy. If
there is no chance of employment, then I think you should not be allowed to immigrate
and become an un-employed stat. That is my opinion *selfish* as it may sound.

Soft

I think You're wrong with Your U.S. university. I worke before in big company in
Poland as a VC++ programmer. I made big security system for Police in Poland. My
comapny worked with Motorola from US. Fact is in my company was two programmers who
worked in this project and from Motorola U.S was about eight professional people.
each one was for other problem. Don't tell again that foreign people are less
educated than U.S or Canadian I.T.
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happy

Do pHD

happy

I can understand your frustration. It is all Market driven and Indian consulting companies are making huge money by employing candidates with dubious degrees.Good luck to them.
I am particularly angry with people from Andhra Pradesh.
Market wont change rules to accomodate you sir.Also it is great you did Masters,but,Most American Software Consultants are happy with a B.S or Other degrees.Having
a Masters degree in C.S but working in Application Development field does not make any diff if you have a B.S(computer Science) or a B.A or a PHD.Atleast in USA.That is what I think.Dont Give up!

John

New to Vancouver,

I think you can give some good advise to one of my indian friend, who is having
problem in USA. He is out of job for 5 month and his H1B visa has been expired.
Fortunately he just received his Canadian PR and now determined to settle in Canada.
He was in very misarable condition in USA for couple of months since he did not even
got a odd jobs there(they want green card or work permit now for even any kind of odd
jobs). He along with his wife and two sons have to live from his savings and it is
now becoming hard to survive from his balance. So he is leaving USA for good, and he
does not mind to do any "odd jobs" in Canada if he doesn't get his intended jobs for
long times(even 1-2 years).

What do you think if he decide to settle in Vancouver. If he can not get any intended
jobs then can he survive their by getting odd jobs? Please advice in details from all
points of view keeping in mind that he has to join any kind of work (odd jobs)for
surving and can not spent much time and money sitting idle.

Thanks.

John

"New To Vancouver" <[email protected]>
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[usenetquote2]> > No matter how good u r u cannot get to the magical 80 pts if u don't have the a[/usenetquote2]
[usenetquote2]> > job offer.[/usenetquote2]
[usenetquote2]> >[/usenetquote2]
[usenetquote2]> > My case: Age 27 = 10 pts[/usenetquote2]
[usenetquote2]> >[/usenetquote2]
[usenetquote2]> > Post Grad. in Computer Sc: =25 pts[/usenetquote2]
[usenetquote2]> >[/usenetquote2]
[usenetquote2]> > Language: English (TOEFL score 270) = 16pts[/usenetquote2]
[usenetquote2]> >[/usenetquote2]
[usenetquote2]> > Exprn 4 yrs = 25 pts[/usenetquote2]
[usenetquote2]> >[/usenetquote2]
[usenetquote2]> > Arranged employment : none[/usenetquote2]
[usenetquote2]> >[/usenetquote2]
[usenetquote2]> > Adaptability: Single, Never worked in Canada (Worked in the US big mistake should[/usenetquote2]
[usenetquote2]> > have tried Canada...) No family in Canada[/usenetquote2]
[usenetquote2]> >[/usenetquote2]
[usenetquote2]> > So I make it just to 76 pts ..... No matter what u do have to have a job offer or[/usenetquote2]
[usenetquote2]> > learn French....[/usenetquote2]
[usenetquote2]> >[/usenetquote2]
[usenetquote2]> >[/usenetquote2]
[usenetquote2]> > --[/usenetquote2]

[usenetquote2]> >[/usenetquote2]

Robert S. Miller

vivekg <[email protected]>
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There is another alternative..Get yourself a (wife or a common-law partner) with a
post-grad credentials and apply as a family.

Good Luck