ThinkPad

Hello all,

I am a landed immigrant since 2007, went to Canada to do the landing procedures, got my PR card and left Canada. Now iam planning to move to Canada.

I have heard to maintain the PR one should be 2 years out of each 5 years present in Canada. so Iam wondering now is my residency still valid? My PR card says the card is valid until 2012. if yes, does it mean that when I move there and in 2012 i would have collected 1.5 years of presence in canada, my residency wont get extended?

thanks for ur help

iaink

Yes. Basically you can return to Canada on the PR card you have, but as you wont be able to acquire the magical total of two years residency out of five before you have to renew the card, you are likely to loose your permanent residence status at that time.

Of course, you only need the PR card if you intend to travel... Im not at all sure what happens if you sit tight in Canada for a while until you meet the two years out of the last 5 requirement and then apply for a new card, they may be smart enough to realise, they may not...

Colocally

Your PR card will run out but your PR will still be valid as long as you don't travel. As soon as you have resided in Canada for two years (thus making the requirements) you can just renew your PR card.
As long as you don't leave Canada, there is no actual necessity to renew the card (although it is advisable).
If your card was out of date and you were outside Canada then you would have problems, but as long as you are inside Canada, you are ok. So just return, wait two years and then apply for a new card.
When they are checking to see if you have been in Canada enough, they can only legally check the last five years, and no further.

jonnieandmartina

Iain, can I jump in, just to clarify, would there be an issue if one was to leave the permanent move until well into the 30 months or so,
i.e I've activated my PR may 09, for all sorts of reasons, work, house sale etc still not able to move, so if for arguments sake I move in Jan/Feb 2012 and advise them Im here - as long as I then stay the remaining two years I should be ok ??

does that make sence..

jon

Tangram

2 out of 5 rolling.

iaink

Are you absolutely sure of that? I dont know, but its not something I have ever heard before. My understanding is that (certainly for citizenship / expulsion) they can go back as far as they like if misinformation / ommision of information was involved.


30 months should be OK as you will still be OK to meet the 2 / 5 year rolling requirement. No need to tell them, not until you come to renew the PR card anyway.

If you leave it beyond the 3 year point I dont know the legal position to be honest, It sounds a bit dubious and I wouldnt risk it personally. Certainly one I would run past a paid advisor before taking the chance. Leaving it too late and then waiting until you meet the 2/5 requirement before renewing comes up here periodically, but I dont recall anyone ever saying "Yes, I did that and it worked out OK", or one of the lawyers/ consultants weighing in with a definitive answer.

I've a feeling that TECHNICALLY if there is a point in any rolling 5 year period where you dont meet the 2/5 requirement, then you have legally forfeited your right to PR, but Im not sure how its policed or if CIC would catch that if you wait to renew the card.

Colocally

That is what I have read a number of times by people on a Canada immigration site I visit and by people who are apparently immigration professionals.

jonnieandmartina

Iain, thanxs.. this admittedly is a worse case scenario, we are hoping the house will sell some time this year.. hey ho..

jon

raymasa

Like Iain, I also dont know what the legal implications are. However, if you look at the application to renew a PR card (application and guide on the CIC website), it is only asking for information for the last 5 years.

so, going from that, I think if you stay in Canada for 2 years and apply to renew, you might be ok. But, again, not sure if that is the case.

Ray

ThinkPad

Thanks for the replies!

what concerns me is, if i stay in Canada beyond the period on the card (2012). I might be illegal in Canada...

Almost Canadian

Why? That`s like arguing that one cannot stay in Canada if one`s passport has expired. The card itself proves very little. It is whether you are able to prove if you have fulfilled your obligations if asked that is the issue.

iaink

Its not really, there is no legal obligation for a citizen to have a passport, but there is a legal obligation for a PR to live in Canada for 2 out of any 5 year rolling period at all times or else risk forfeiting their permanent status. Technically they would be illegal.

Whether there is any practical consequences to that, other than having to wait until they have at least the two years in five before applying for a PR card and risking leaving the country is what's unclear. I dont have an answer to that, but its clearly something that should be considered.

Novocastrian

Like iain, I'm no expert, but I've never heard anyone say that it is OK (for example) to activate PR status and then stay abroad for 4 years and 11 months and to then become resident for 2 years before renewing the card.

ann m

From the CIC website:

Your permanent resident status allows you to live in Canada, but there is also a time limit on how long you can live outside the country. To keep your status as a permanent resident, you must live in Canada for at least two years within a five-year period.

You land in the country to move there. You get given a PR card. It has a five year expiry on it. You have to live in the country for at least two of those five years.

Any ambiguity (as far as I would understand) would be on the use of the word "a" for the five year period. It is not specific to say "within the five year period of the dates as per your PR card" !

But perhaps we are splitting hairs. Basically, you need to live in Canada for two of those five years. Personally, I wouldn't want to be applying for a new card within a few months of moving (which you would need to do if you ever wanted to leave the country for a holiday or an emergency flight back to the UK for example) with this huge question mark over your status.

Again, from the CIC website, it says that:

If you were outside Canada for 1095 days or more in the past five years: You need to provide proof of:

If applicable:

proof of your relationship to the Canadian citizen you accompanied abroad and proof of his or her citizenship
proof of your full-time employment to a Canadian business abroad
If you were accompanying a permanent resident of Canada working for a Canadian business abroad:

proof of your relationship to this person
proof of his or her full-time employment
proof of his or her permanent resident status

You haven't inadvertently forgotten to mention you are married to a Canadian citizen, have you?! That might help.

dippy

For me it is clear that the intent behind the law requires you to be present for at least two of the five years from the date of landing and a rolling period thereafter. If you dont fulfill this requirement it will be picked up on the application for which specifically asks for the date you became a PR..... if you have been out of Canada for more than 1095 days in that period, unless you qualify for exemption as per the options on the form,you will lose your PR status.

My wife has PR and she landed in September 2009..... for various reasons we havent moved yet but because I am a Canadian citizen so long as she accompanies me the 1095 days in any five year period doesnt apply.