Ruth

What are the options available to a Permanent Residents who has been out of Canada
for less than 183 days before June 28th? Say for example someone who completes 183
days on August 1, 2002.

1. Can such a person continue to stay out of Canada for 3 in 5 years as per the new
law or Should he / she make a trip to Canada before completion of 183 days (i.e.
August 1) and then leave again to meet whatever obligations.

2. If such a person chooses to stay out of Canada without returning before 183 days
now, will it threaten the PR status on return after 1 or 2 years? Also will it
cause any problems at a later date, say when applying for a PR card or maybe
Citizenship?

Ruth

Jaj

Ruth It seems to me that the best reference is section 28(2)(b) of the new Act:

TESTTEST-

(b) it is sufficient for a permanent resident to demonstrate at examination

(i) if they have been a permanent resident for less than five years, that they will
be able to meet the residency obligation in respect of the five-year period
immediately after they became a permanent resident;

(ii) if they have been a permanent resident for five years or more, that they have
met the residency obligation in respect of the five-year period immediately
before the examination; and TESTTEST-

I'm not sure how frequent the 'examination' will be - I suspect it will be at
the time of application for the PR Card (rather than at port of entry), but I
may be wrong.

Two other issues:

- after 31 Dec 2003 the PR Card will be necessary to enter Canada via a commercial
carrier. It may be necessary to move back to Canada before this date, as the PR
Card can only be applied for and issued within Canada. I've no idea what happens
if someone has an RRP valid into 2004, or if someone who has a passport allowing
visa free tourist entry to Canada (such as a British citizen) who will be allowed
by an airline to fly to Canada, presents himself as a PR at the Canadian
immigration desk.

- Someone may encounter problems if they did not properly establish Canadian PR in
the first place. Even under the new law it looks like 'round the flagpole' landings
will not be valid:

TESTTEST--
20. (1) Every foreign national, other than a foreign national referred to in section
19, who seeks to enter or remain in Canada must establish,

(a) to become a permanent resident, that they hold the visa or other document
required under the regulations and have come to Canada in order to establish
permanent residence;

20. (2) A foreign national becomes a permanent resident if an officer is satisfied
that the foreign national has applied for that status, has met the
obligations set out in paragraph 20(1)(a) and subsection
20(3) and is not inadmissible.

TESTTESTTEST

http://www.parl.gc.ca/37/1/parlbus/c...1/C-11_4/9014-
1b-1E.html

But it all seems rather murky still and CIC should really have prepared more
comprehensive information on how the transitional rules will work (and maybe made the
transitional rules clearer), rather than having people play guessing games like this.

Jeremy

    >On Sun, 7 Jul 2002 08:53:41 +0530, "Ruth" <[email protected]> wrote:
    >
    >
    >What are the options available to a Permanent Residents who has been out of Canada
    >for less than 183 days before June 28th? Say for example someone who completes 183
    >days on August 1, 2002.
    >
    >1. Can such a person continue to stay out of Canada for 3 in 5 years as per the new
    > law or Should he / she make a trip to Canada before completion of 183 days (i.e.
    > August 1) and then leave again to meet whatever obligations.
    >
    >2. If such a person chooses to stay out of Canada without returning before 183 days
    > now, will it threaten the PR status on return after 1 or 2 years? Also will it
    > cause any problems at a later date, say when applying for a PR card or maybe
    > Citizenship?
    >
    >Ruth

The Wizzard

and also as far as applying for citizenship goes that law has not changed so you
still need 3 years of residence in canada in a 4 year period, so if you stayed out
the full 3 years with only 2 years of residency in 5 you wouldnt qualify and would
have to stay another year after the 2 to meet the 3, if you see what i mean.

"JAJ" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
    > Ruth It seems to me that the best reference is section 28(2)(b) of the new Act:
    >
    > TESTTEST-
    >
    > (b) it is sufficient for a permanent resident to demonstrate at examination
    >
    > (i) if they have been a permanent resident for less than five years, that they
    > will be able to meet the residency obligation in respect of the five-year
    > period immediately after they became a permanent resident;
    >
    > (ii) if they have been a permanent resident for five years or more, that they have
    > met the residency obligation in respect of the five-year period immediately
    > before the examination; and TESTTEST-
    >
    > I'm not sure how frequent the 'examination' will be - I suspect it will be at
    > the time of application for the PR Card (rather than at port of entry), but I
    > may be wrong.
    >
    > Two other issues:
    >
    > - after 31 Dec 2003 the PR Card will be necessary to enter Canada via a commercial
    > carrier. It may be necessary to move back to Canada before this date, as the PR
    > Card can only be applied for and issued within Canada. I've no idea what happens
    > if someone has an RRP valid into 2004, or if someone who has a passport allowing
    > visa free tourist entry to Canada (such as a British citizen) who will be allowed
    > by an airline to fly to Canada, presents himself as a PR at the Canadian
    > immigration desk.
    >
    > - Someone may encounter problems if they did not properly establish Canadian PR in
    > the first place. Even under the new law it looks like 'round the flagpole'
    > landings will not be valid:
    >
    > TESTTEST--
    > 20. (1) Every foreign national, other than a foreign national referred to in
    > section 19, who seeks to enter or remain in Canada must establish,
    >
    > (a) to become a permanent resident, that they hold the visa or other document
    > required under the regulations and have come to Canada in order to establish
    > permanent residence;
    >
    > 21. (1) A foreign national becomes a permanent resident if an officer is satisfied
    > that the foreign national has applied for that status, has met the
    > obligations set out in paragraph 20(1)(a) and subsection
    > 20(2) and is not inadmissible.
    >
    > TESTTESTTEST
    >
    >
http://www.parl.gc.ca/37/1/parlbus/c...ent/C-11/C-11_
4/90141b-1E.html
    >
    > But it all seems rather murky still and CIC should really have prepared more
    > comprehensive information on how the transitional rules will work (and maybe made
    > the transitional rules clearer), rather than having people play guessing games
    > like this.
    >
    > Jeremy
    >
    > >On Sun, 7 Jul 2002 08:53:41 +0530, "Ruth" <[email protected]> wrote:
    > >
    > >
    > >What are the options available to a Permanent Residents who has been out
of
    > >Canada for less than 183 days before June 28th? Say for example someone
who
    > >completes 183 days on August 1, 2002.
    > >
    > >1. Can such a person continue to stay out of Canada for 3 in 5 years as
per
    > >the new law or Should he / she make a trip to Canada before completion of 183 days
    > >(i.e. August 1) and then leave again to meet whatever obligations.
    > >
    > >2. If such a person chooses to stay out of Canada without returning
before
    > >183 days now, will it threaten the PR status on return after 1 or 2
years?
    > >Also will it cause any problems at a later date, say when applying for a
PR
    > >card or maybe Citizenship?
    > >
    > >Ruth
    > >
    > >

Ruth

Thanks guys.

But I am however still not sure of the right answer. Will staying out of Canada
beyound 183 days that are over in August (having left Canada before the new law)
jeopardise the PR status or cause any other problem when returing to Canada before
the expiry of three years or say before December 31, 2003.

However, returing to Canada for a short visit before August will comply with the old
Law of 183 days, but is that necessary after June 28th as it will entail a lot of
expense. What do the experts suggst?

Ruth

"Ruth" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
    >
    >
    > What are the options available to a Permanent Residents who has been out
of
    > Canada for less than 183 days before June 28th? Say for example someone
who
    > completes 183 days on August 1, 2002.
    >
    > 1. Can such a person continue to stay out of Canada for 3 in 5 years as
per
    > the new law or Should he / she make a trip to Canada before completion of 183 days
    > (i.e. August 1) and then leave again to meet whatever obligations.
    >
    > 2. If such a person chooses to stay out of Canada without returning before 183 days
    > now, will it threaten the PR status on return after 1 or 2 years? Also will it
    > cause any problems at a later date, say when applying for a
PR
    > card or maybe Citizenship?
    >
    > Ruth

\"Half-Canadian

"Ruth" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
    > Thanks guys.
    >
    > But I am however still not sure of the right answer. Will staying out of Canada
    > beyound 183 days that are over in August (having left Canada before the new law)
    > jeopardise the PR status or cause any other problem when returing to Canada before
    > the expiry of three years or say before December 31, 2003.
    >
    > However, returing to Canada for a short visit before August will comply with the
    > old Law of 183 days, but is that necessary after June 28th as it will entail a lot
    > of expense. What do the experts suggst?
    >
    > Ruth
    >
    > "Ruth" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    > news:[email protected]...
    > >
    > >
    > > What are the options available to a Permanent Residents who has been out
    > of
    > > Canada for less than 183 days before June 28th? Say for example someone
    > who
    > > completes 183 days on August 1, 2002.
    > >
    > > 1. Can such a person continue to stay out of Canada for 3 in 5 years as
    > per
    > > the new law or Should he / she make a trip to Canada before completion of
    > > 183 days
(i.e.
    > > August 1) and then leave again to meet whatever obligations.
    > >
    > > 2. If such a person chooses to stay out of Canada without returning
before
    > > 183 days now, will it threaten the PR status on return after 1 or 2
years?
    > > Also will it cause any problems at a later date, say when applying for a
    > PR
    > > card or maybe Citizenship?
    > >
    > > Ruth

Why is it that so many people seem to forget that the purpose of applying for a
Canadian permanent resident visa is so that one can become a permanent resident
of Canada?

It seems like most of the people who post here are trying to determine exactly how
many days/weeks/months/years that they can be living somewhere other than Canada
and still manage to get back through the border when their H1B (or insert other
excuse) expires.

A permanent resident is someone who has moved to Canada and established a home here,
begun gainful employment, enrolled their children in school, made new friends, joined
a club, volunteered their time to a good cause, learned about the history of their
new country, and takes pride in being a part of Canadian society.

It is not just signing up for a post office box address and a SIN card, then rushing
to the border to resume residency somewhere else to work or study (or again, insert
other excuse).

Applying to be a permanent resident is not a game, nor is it a second-best backup
plan to be used only if all else falls through. It is a commitment to make a major
change in one's life, and along the way you will encounter challenges and joys,
hardships and triumphs.

Don't treat Canada like a doormat or a stepping stone to somewhere else -- she
deserves far better than that.........

Proudly awaiting my Canadian citizenship in a few more months, Half-Canadian

X User

Nice words Thanks. If only every one else would think the same...

""Half-Canadian"" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
    >
    > "Ruth" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    > news:[email protected]...
    > > Thanks guys.
    > >
    > > But I am however still not sure of the right answer. Will staying out of Canada
    > > beyound 183 days that are over in August (having left Canada
before
    > > the new law) jeopardise the PR status or cause any other problem when returing to
    > > Canada before the expiry of three years or say before
December
    > > 31, 2003.
    > >
    > > However, returing to Canada for a short visit before August will comply with the
    > > old Law of 183 days, but is that necessary after June 28th as
it
    > > will entail a lot of expense. What do the experts suggst?
    > >
    > > Ruth
    > >
    > > "Ruth" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    > > news:[email protected]...
    > > >
    > > >
    > > > What are the options available to a Permanent Residents who has been
out
    > > of
    > > > Canada for less than 183 days before June 28th? Say for example
someone
    > > who
    > > > completes 183 days on August 1, 2002.
    > > >
    > > > 1. Can such a person continue to stay out of Canada for 3 in 5 years
as
    > > per
    > > > the new law or Should he / she make a trip to Canada before completion of 183
    > > > days
    > (i.e.
    > > > August 1) and then leave again to meet whatever obligations.
    > > >
    > > > 2. If such a person chooses to stay out of Canada without returning
    > before
    > > > 183 days now, will it threaten the PR status on return after 1 or 2
    > years?
    > > > Also will it cause any problems at a later date, say when applying for
a
    > > PR
    > > > card or maybe Citizenship?
    > > >
    > > > Ruth
    >
    >
    > Why is it that so many people seem to forget that the purpose of applying for a
    > Canadian permanent resident visa is so that one can become a
permanent
    > resident of Canada?
    >
    > It seems like most of the people who post here are trying to determine
    > exactly how many days/weeks/months/years that they can be living somewhere
    > other than Canada and still manage to get back through the border when
their
    > H1B (or insert other excuse) expires.
    >
    > A permanent resident is someone who has moved to Canada and established a home
    > here, begun gainful employment, enrolled their children in school,
made
    > new friends, joined a club, volunteered their time to a good cause,
learned
    > about the history of their new country, and takes pride in being a part of Canadian
    > society.
    >
    > It is not just signing up for a post office box address and a SIN card,
then
    > rushing to the border to resume residency somewhere else to work or study (or
    > again, insert other excuse).
    >
    > Applying to be a permanent resident is not a game, nor is it a second-best backup
    > plan to be used only if all else falls through. It is a commitment to make a major
    > change in one's life, and along the way you will encounter challenges and joys,
    > hardships and triumphs.
    >
    > Don't treat Canada like a doormat or a stepping stone to somewhere else -- she
    > deserves far better than that.........
    >
    > Proudly awaiting my Canadian citizenship in a few more months, Half-Canadian

Foot Loose

Life is not as easy as you sound. Poeple have their problems and seek help when
confronted with issues concerning them. Not everyone tries to abuse the system as you
sound. So, let us respect their concerns and help them out if we can or perhaps keep
quiet if we can't. Surely surmons are not desired

Foot

""Half-Canadian"" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
    >
    > "Ruth" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    > news:[email protected]...
    > > Thanks guys.
    > >
    > > But I am however still not sure of the right answer. Will staying out of Canada
    > > beyound 183 days that are over in August (having left Canada
before
    > > the new law) jeopardise the PR status or cause any other problem when returing to
    > > Canada before the expiry of three years or say before
December
    > > 31, 2003.
    > >
    > > However, returing to Canada for a short visit before August will comply with the
    > > old Law of 183 days, but is that necessary after June 28th as
it
    > > will entail a lot of expense. What do the experts suggst?
    > >
    > > Ruth
    > >
    > > "Ruth" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    > > news:[email protected]...
    > > >
    > > >
    > > > What are the options available to a Permanent Residents who has been
out
    > > of
    > > > Canada for less than 183 days before June 28th? Say for example
someone
    > > who
    > > > completes 183 days on August 1, 2002.
    > > >
    > > > 1. Can such a person continue to stay out of Canada for 3 in 5 years
as
    > > per
    > > > the new law or Should he / she make a trip to Canada before completion of 183
    > > > days
    > (i.e.
    > > > August 1) and then leave again to meet whatever obligations.
    > > >
    > > > 2. If such a person chooses to stay out of Canada without returning
    > before
    > > > 183 days now, will it threaten the PR status on return after 1 or 2
    > years?
    > > > Also will it cause any problems at a later date, say when applying for
a
    > > PR
    > > > card or maybe Citizenship?
    > > >
    > > > Ruth
    >
    >
    > Why is it that so many people seem to forget that the purpose of applying for a
    > Canadian permanent resident visa is so that one can become a
permanent
    > resident of Canada?
    >
    > It seems like most of the people who post here are trying to determine
    > exactly how many days/weeks/months/years that they can be living somewhere
    > other than Canada and still manage to get back through the border when
their
    > H1B (or insert other excuse) expires.
    >
    > A permanent resident is someone who has moved to Canada and established a home
    > here, begun gainful employment, enrolled their children in school,
made
    > new friends, joined a club, volunteered their time to a good cause,
learned
    > about the history of their new country, and takes pride in being a part of Canadian
    > society.
    >
    > It is not just signing up for a post office box address and a SIN card,
then
    > rushing to the border to resume residency somewhere else to work or study (or
    > again, insert other excuse).
    >
    > Applying to be a permanent resident is not a game, nor is it a second-best backup
    > plan to be used only if all else falls through. It is a commitment to make a major
    > change in one's life, and along the way you will encounter challenges and joys,
    > hardships and triumphs.
    >
    > Don't treat Canada like a doormat or a stepping stone to somewhere else -- she
    > deserves far better than that.........
    >
    > Proudly awaiting my Canadian citizenship in a few more months, Half-Canadian

Foot Loose

Life is not as easy as you sound. Poeple have their problems and seek help when
confronted with issues concerning them. Not everyone tries to abuse the system as you
sound. So, let us respect their concerns and help them out if we can or perhaps keep
quiet if we can't. Surely surmons are not desired

Foot

""Half-Canadian"" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
    >
    > "Ruth" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    > news:[email protected]...
    > > Thanks guys.
    > >
    > > But I am however still not sure of the right answer. Will staying out of Canada
    > > beyound 183 days that are over in August (having left Canada
before
    > > the new law) jeopardise the PR status or cause any other problem when returing to
    > > Canada before the expiry of three years or say before
December
    > > 31, 2003.
    > >
    > > However, returing to Canada for a short visit before August will comply with the
    > > old Law of 183 days, but is that necessary after June 28th as
it
    > > will entail a lot of expense. What do the experts suggst?
    > >
    > > Ruth
    > >
    > > "Ruth" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    > > news:[email protected]...
    > > >
    > > >
    > > > What are the options available to a Permanent Residents who has been
out
    > > of
    > > > Canada for less than 183 days before June 28th? Say for example
someone
    > > who
    > > > completes 183 days on August 1, 2002.
    > > >
    > > > 1. Can such a person continue to stay out of Canada for 3 in 5 years
as
    > > per
    > > > the new law or Should he / she make a trip to Canada before completion of 183
    > > > days
    > (i.e.
    > > > August 1) and then leave again to meet whatever obligations.
    > > >
    > > > 2. If such a person chooses to stay out of Canada without returning
    > before
    > > > 183 days now, will it threaten the PR status on return after 1 or 2
    > years?
    > > > Also will it cause any problems at a later date, say when applying for
a
    > > PR
    > > > card or maybe Citizenship?
    > > >
    > > > Ruth
    >
    >
    > Why is it that so many people seem to forget that the purpose of applying for a
    > Canadian permanent resident visa is so that one can become a
permanent
    > resident of Canada?
    >
    > It seems like most of the people who post here are trying to determine
    > exactly how many days/weeks/months/years that they can be living somewhere
    > other than Canada and still manage to get back through the border when
their
    > H1B (or insert other excuse) expires.
    >
    > A permanent resident is someone who has moved to Canada and established a home
    > here, begun gainful employment, enrolled their children in school,
made
    > new friends, joined a club, volunteered their time to a good cause,
learned
    > about the history of their new country, and takes pride in being a part of Canadian
    > society.
    >
    > It is not just signing up for a post office box address and a SIN card,
then
    > rushing to the border to resume residency somewhere else to work or study (or
    > again, insert other excuse).
    >
    > Applying to be a permanent resident is not a game, nor is it a second-best backup
    > plan to be used only if all else falls through. It is a commitment to make a major
    > change in one's life, and along the way you will encounter challenges and joys,
    > hardships and triumphs.
    >
    > Don't treat Canada like a doormat or a stepping stone to somewhere else -- she
    > deserves far better than that.........
    >
    > Proudly awaiting my Canadian citizenship in a few more months, Half-Canadian

Greg Del Pilar

Hi!

I agree. I think there's an emerging class of successful applicants (i.e., those who
had been granted their PRs and are now faced with the decision to move or not), who
would rather "postpone" their settlement for as long as they legally could until
their chances of success here are a lot better than they are now. For example, with
what's happenning to the Canadian IT market, would you blame people who got approved
for PR due to their strong IT skills if they decide to postpone their arrival for,
say, one, two, even three years so they can at least keep their present standard of
living? I'm sure many of them sincerely want to be in Canada permanently (after all,
they've spent so much time and money on their application, right? and Canada is more
likely to be a safer and better environment for them and their kids, right?), but I
think it would be unfair to demand that they blindly take a plunge into uncertainty
just because their PRs had been granted at the wrong time. A lot of applicants are
applying for Canadian PRs to get a better standard of living, not because they "love"
Canada. Their sincere "love" for Canada develops after they've been here long enough,
never BEFORE they've set foot on this land.

Greg

"Foot Loose" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
    > Life is not as easy as you sound. Poeple have their problems and seek help when
    > confronted with issues concerning them. Not everyone tries to abuse the system as
    > you sound. So, let us respect their concerns and help them
out
    > if we can or perhaps keep quiet if we can't. Surely surmons are not
desired
    >
    > Foot
    >
    > ""Half-Canadian"" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    > news:[email protected]...
    > >
    > > "Ruth" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    > > news:[email protected]...
    > > > Thanks guys.
    > > >
    > > > But I am however still not sure of the right answer. Will staying out
of
    > > > Canada beyound 183 days that are over in August (having left Canada
    > before
    > > > the new law) jeopardise the PR status or cause any other problem when returing
    > > > to Canada before the expiry of three years or say before
    > December
    > > > 31, 2003.
    > > >
    > > > However, returing to Canada for a short visit before August will
comply
    > > > with the old Law of 183 days, but is that necessary after June 28th as
    > it
    > > > will entail a lot of expense. What do the experts suggst?
    > > >
    > > > Ruth
    > > >
    > > > "Ruth" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    > > > news:[email protected]...
    > > > >
    > > > >
    > > > > What are the options available to a Permanent Residents who has been
    > out
    > > > of
    > > > > Canada for less than 183 days before June 28th? Say for example
    > someone
    > > > who
    > > > > completes 183 days on August 1, 2002.
    > > > >
    > > > > 1. Can such a person continue to stay out of Canada for 3 in 5 years
    > as
    > > > per
    > > > > the new law or Should he / she make a trip to Canada before completion of 183
    > > > > days
    > > (i.e.
    > > > > August 1) and then leave again to meet whatever obligations.
    > > > >
    > > > > 2. If such a person chooses to stay out of Canada without returning
    > > before
    > > > > 183 days now, will it threaten the PR status on return after 1 or 2
    > > years?
    > > > > Also will it cause any problems at a later date, say when applying
for
    > a
    > > > PR
    > > > > card or maybe Citizenship?
    > > > >
    > > > > Ruth
    > >
    > >
    > > Why is it that so many people seem to forget that the purpose of
applying
    > > for a Canadian permanent resident visa is so that one can become a
    > permanent
    > > resident of Canada?
    > >
    > > It seems like most of the people who post here are trying to determine exactly
    > > how many days/weeks/months/years that they can be living
somewhere
    > > other than Canada and still manage to get back through the border when
    > their
    > > H1B (or insert other excuse) expires.
    > >
    > > A permanent resident is someone who has moved to Canada and established
a
    > > home here, begun gainful employment, enrolled their children in school,
    > made
    > > new friends, joined a club, volunteered their time to a good cause,
    > learned
    > > about the history of their new country, and takes pride in being a part
of
    > > Canadian society.
    > >
    > > It is not just signing up for a post office box address and a SIN card,
    > then
    > > rushing to the border to resume residency somewhere else to work or
study
    > > (or again, insert other excuse).
    > >
    > > Applying to be a permanent resident is not a game, nor is it a
second-best
    > > backup plan to be used only if all else falls through. It is a
commitment
    > > to make a major change in one's life, and along the way you will
encounter
    > > challenges and joys, hardships and triumphs.
    > >
    > > Don't treat Canada like a doormat or a stepping stone to somewhere
else --
    > > she deserves far better than that.........
    > >
    > > Proudly awaiting my Canadian citizenship in a few more months, Half-Canadian
    > >
    >

Ruth

Thanks Greg, you said it well. But the answer to my questions still remains
unansewered. Mr. Miller, Mr. Cohen, do I see any help coming from you on my initial
querry. Ruth

"Greg Del Pilar" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
    > Hi!
    >
    > I agree. I think there's an emerging class of successful applicants (i.e., those
    > who had been granted their PRs and are now faced with the decision
to
    > move or not), who would rather "postpone" their settlement for as long as they
    > legally could until their chances of success here are a lot better
than
    > they are now. For example, with what's happenning to the Canadian IT
market,
    > would you blame people who got approved for PR due to their strong IT
skills
    > if they decide to postpone their arrival for, say, one, two, even three years so
    > they can at least keep their present standard of living? I'm sure many of them
    > sincerely want to be in Canada permanently (after all,
they've
    > spent so much time and money on their application, right? and Canada is
more
    > likely to be a safer and better environment for them and their kids, right?), but I
    > think it would be unfair to demand that they blindly take a plunge into uncertainty
    > just because their PRs had been granted at the
wrong
    > time. A lot of applicants are applying for Canadian PRs to get a better standard of
    > living, not because they "love" Canada. Their sincere "love"
for
    > Canada develops after they've been here long enough, never BEFORE they've set foot
    > on this land.
    >
    > Greg
    >
    > "Foot Loose" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    > news:[email protected]...
    > > Life is not as easy as you sound. Poeple have their problems and seek
help
    > > when confronted with issues concerning them. Not everyone tries to
abuse
    > > the system as you sound. So, let us respect their concerns and help them
    > out
    > > if we can or perhaps keep quiet if we can't. Surely surmons are not
    > desired
    > >
    > > Foot
    > >
    > > ""Half-Canadian"" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    > > news:[email protected]...
    > > >
    > > > "Ruth" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    > > > news:[email protected]...
    > > > > Thanks guys.
    > > > >
    > > > > But I am however still not sure of the right answer. Will staying
out
    > of
    > > > > Canada beyound 183 days that are over in August (having left Canada
    > > before
    > > > > the new law) jeopardise the PR status or cause any other problem
when
    > > > > returing to Canada before the expiry of three years or say before
    > > December
    > > > > 31, 2003.
    > > > >
    > > > > However, returing to Canada for a short visit before August will
    > comply
    > > > > with the old Law of 183 days, but is that necessary after June 28th
as
    > > it
    > > > > will entail a lot of expense. What do the experts suggst?
    > > > >
    > > > > Ruth
    > > > >
    > > > > "Ruth" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    > > > > news:[email protected]...
    > > > > >
    > > > > >
    > > > > > What are the options available to a Permanent Residents who has
been
    > > out
    > > > > of
    > > > > > Canada for less than 183 days before June 28th? Say for example
    > > someone
    > > > > who
    > > > > > completes 183 days on August 1, 2002.
    > > > > >
    > > > > > 1. Can such a person continue to stay out of Canada for 3 in 5
years
    > > as
    > > > > per
    > > > > > the new law or Should he / she make a trip to Canada before completion of
    > > > > > 183
days
    > > > (i.e.
    > > > > > August 1) and then leave again to meet whatever obligations.
    > > > > >
    > > > > > 2. If such a person chooses to stay out of Canada without
returning
    > > > before
    > > > > > 183 days now, will it threaten the PR status on return after 1 or
2
    > > > years?
    > > > > > Also will it cause any problems at a later date, say when applying
    > for
    > > a
    > > > > PR
    > > > > > card or maybe Citizenship?
    > > > > >
    > > > > > Ruth
    > > >
    > > >
    > > > Why is it that so many people seem to forget that the purpose of
    > applying
    > > > for a Canadian permanent resident visa is so that one can become a
    > > permanent
    > > > resident of Canada?
    > > >
    > > > It seems like most of the people who post here are trying to
determine
    > > > exactly how many days/weeks/months/years that they can be living
    > somewhere
    > > > other than Canada and still manage to get back through the border when
    > > their
    > > > H1B (or insert other excuse) expires.
    > > >
    > > > A permanent resident is someone who has moved to Canada and
established
    > a
    > > > home here, begun gainful employment, enrolled their children in
school,
    > > made
    > > > new friends, joined a club, volunteered their time to a good cause,
    > > learned
    > > > about the history of their new country, and takes pride in being a
part
    > of
    > > > Canadian society.
    > > >
    > > > It is not just signing up for a post office box address and a SIN
card,
    > > then
    > > > rushing to the border to resume residency somewhere else to work or
    > study
    > > > (or again, insert other excuse).
    > > >
    > > > Applying to be a permanent resident is not a game, nor is it a
    > second-best
    > > > backup plan to be used only if all else falls through. It is a
    > commitment
    > > > to make a major change in one's life, and along the way you will
    > encounter
    > > > challenges and joys, hardships and triumphs.
    > > >
    > > > Don't treat Canada like a doormat or a stepping stone to somewhere
    > else --
    > > > she deserves far better than that.........
    > > >
    > > > Proudly awaiting my Canadian citizenship in a few more months, Half-Canadian
    > > >
    > > >
    > >
    >

Andrew Miller

Ruth,

Nobody can answer your question with certainty at this time - we need to see what
Immigration Manual tells examining officers to do, how Operational Memoranda will
establish policy in micro scale and what precedents will be established after number
of cases like one in your question will go through the legal challenges and appeals.

--

../..

Andrew Miller Immigration Consultant Vancouver, British Columbia email:
millercicanada.com (delete REMOVE and INVALID from the above address before
sending email)
________________________________

"Ruth" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
    > Thanks Greg, you said it well. But the answer to my questions still remains
    > unansewered. Mr. Miller, Mr. Cohen, do I see any help coming from you on my initial
    > querry. Ruth
    >
    > "Greg Del Pilar" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    > news:[email protected]...
    > > Hi!
    > >
    > > I agree. I think there's an emerging class of successful applicants (i.e., those
    > > who had been granted their PRs and are now faced with the decision
    > to
    > > move or not), who would rather "postpone" their settlement for as long as they
    > > legally could until their chances of success here are a lot better
    > than
    > > they are now. For example, with what's happenning to the Canadian IT
    > market,
    > > would you blame people who got approved for PR due to their strong IT
    > skills
    > > if they decide to postpone their arrival for, say, one, two, even three years so
    > > they can at least keep their present standard of living? I'm sure many of them
    > > sincerely want to be in Canada permanently (after all,
    > they've
    > > spent so much time and money on their application, right? and Canada is
    > more
    > > likely to be a safer and better environment for them and their kids, right?), but
    > > I think it would be unfair to demand that they blindly take a plunge into
    > > uncertainty just because their PRs had been granted at the
    > wrong
    > > time. A lot of applicants are applying for Canadian PRs to get a better standard
    > > of living, not because they "love" Canada. Their sincere "love"
    > for
    > > Canada develops after they've been here long enough, never BEFORE they've set
    > > foot on this land.
    > >
    > > Greg
    > >
    > > "Foot Loose" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    > > news:[email protected]...
    > > > Life is not as easy as you sound. Poeple have their problems and seek
    > help
    > > > when confronted with issues concerning them. Not everyone tries to
    > abuse
    > > > the system as you sound. So, let us respect their concerns and help them
    > > out
    > > > if we can or perhaps keep quiet if we can't. Surely surmons are not
    > > desired
    > > >
    > > > Foot
    > > >
    > > > ""Half-Canadian"" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    > > > news:[email protected]...
    > > > >
    > > > > "Ruth" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    > > > > news:[email protected]...
    > > > > > Thanks guys.
    > > > > >
    > > > > > But I am however still not sure of the right answer. Will staying
    > out
    > > of
    > > > > > Canada beyound 183 days that are over in August (having left Canada
    > > > before
    > > > > > the new law) jeopardise the PR status or cause any other problem
    > when
    > > > > > returing to Canada before the expiry of three years or say before
    > > > December
    > > > > > 31, 2003.
    > > > > >
    > > > > > However, returing to Canada for a short visit before August will
    > > comply
    > > > > > with the old Law of 183 days, but is that necessary after June 28th
    > as
    > > > it
    > > > > > will entail a lot of expense. What do the experts suggst?
    > > > > >
    > > > > > Ruth
    > > > > >
    > > > > > "Ruth" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    > > > > > news:[email protected]...
    > > > > > >
    > > > > > >
    > > > > > > What are the options available to a Permanent Residents who has
    > been
    > > > out
    > > > > > of
    > > > > > > Canada for less than 183 days before June 28th? Say for example
    > > > someone
    > > > > > who
    > > > > > > completes 183 days on August 1, 2002.
    > > > > > >
    > > > > > > 1. Can such a person continue to stay out of Canada for 3 in 5
    > years
    > > > as
    > > > > > per
    > > > > > > the new law or Should he / she make a trip to Canada before completion of
    > > > > > > 183
    > days
    > > > > (i.e.
    > > > > > > August 1) and then leave again to meet whatever obligations.
    > > > > > >
    > > > > > > 2. If such a person chooses to stay out of Canada without
    > returning
    > > > > before
    > > > > > > 183 days now, will it threaten the PR status on return after 1 or
    > 2
    > > > > years?
    > > > > > > Also will it cause any problems at a later date, say when applying
    > > for
    > > > a
    > > > > > PR
    > > > > > > card or maybe Citizenship?
    > > > > > >
    > > > > > > Ruth
    > > > >
    > > > >
    > > > > Why is it that so many people seem to forget that the purpose of
    > > applying
    > > > > for a Canadian permanent resident visa is so that one can become a
    > > > permanent
    > > > > resident of Canada?
    > > > >
    > > > > It seems like most of the people who post here are trying to
    > determine
    > > > > exactly how many days/weeks/months/years that they can be living
    > > somewhere
    > > > > other than Canada and still manage to get back through the border when
    > > > their
    > > > > H1B (or insert other excuse) expires.
    > > > >
    > > > > A permanent resident is someone who has moved to Canada and
    > established
    > > a
    > > > > home here, begun gainful employment, enrolled their children in
    > school,
    > > > made
    > > > > new friends, joined a club, volunteered their time to a good cause,
    > > > learned
    > > > > about the history of their new country, and takes pride in being a
    > part
    > > of
    > > > > Canadian society.
    > > > >
    > > > > It is not just signing up for a post office box address and a SIN
    > card,
    > > > then
    > > > > rushing to the border to resume residency somewhere else to work or
    > > study
    > > > > (or again, insert other excuse).
    > > > >
    > > > > Applying to be a permanent resident is not a game, nor is it a
    > > second-best
    > > > > backup plan to be used only if all else falls through. It is a
    > > commitment
    > > > > to make a major change in one's life, and along the way you will
    > > encounter
    > > > > challenges and joys, hardships and triumphs.
    > > > >
    > > > > Don't treat Canada like a doormat or a stepping stone to somewhere
    > > else --
    > > > > she deserves far better than that.........
    > > > >
    > > > > Proudly awaiting my Canadian citizenship in a few more months, Half-Canadian
    > > > >
    > > > >
    > > >
    > > >
    > >
    >

Ruth

Thanks Mr. Miller,

Would you then suggest that the best bet at this time would be to stick with the 183
day rule and make a trip to Canada even if it is for a couple of days to maintain PR
status. Once the 183 day rule is kept anyone leaving Canada now, after the new law
is in force, the 3 in 5 year rule will hold good. Is my understanding of this
situation right?

Ruth

"Andrew Miller" <millercitelus.net> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
    > Ruth,
    >
    > Nobody can answer your question with certainty at this time - we need to
see
    > what Immigration Manual tells examining officers to do, how Operational Memoranda
    > will establish policy in micro scale and what precedents will be established after
    > number of cases like one in your question will go
through the
    > legal challenges and appeals.
    >
    > --
    >
    > ../..
    >
    > Andrew Miller Immigration Consultant Vancouver, British Columbia email:
    > millercicanada.com (delete REMOVE and INVALID from the above address before
    > sending email)
    > ________________________________
    >
    >
    >
    > "Ruth" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    > news:[email protected]...
    > > Thanks Greg, you said it well. But the answer to my questions still
remains
    > > unansewered. Mr. Miller, Mr. Cohen, do I see any help coming from you on
my
    > > initial querry. Ruth
    > >
    > > "Greg Del Pilar" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    > > news:[email protected]...
    > > > Hi!
    > > >
    > > > I agree. I think there's an emerging class of successful applicants
(i.e.,
    > > > those who had been granted their PRs and are now faced with the
decision
    > > to
    > > > move or not), who would rather "postpone" their settlement for as long
as
    > > > they legally could until their chances of success here are a lot
better
    > > than
    > > > they are now. For example, with what's happenning to the Canadian IT
    > > market,
    > > > would you blame people who got approved for PR due to their strong IT
    > > skills
    > > > if they decide to postpone their arrival for, say, one, two, even
three
    > > > years so they can at least keep their present standard of living? I'm
sure
    > > > many of them sincerely want to be in Canada permanently (after all,
    > > they've
    > > > spent so much time and money on their application, right? and Canada
is
    > > more
    > > > likely to be a safer and better environment for them and their kids, right?),
    > > > but I think it would be unfair to demand that they blindly
take a
    > > > plunge into uncertainty just because their PRs had been granted at the
    > > wrong
    > > > time. A lot of applicants are applying for Canadian PRs to get a
better
    > > > standard of living, not because they "love" Canada. Their sincere
"love"
    > > for
    > > > Canada develops after they've been here long enough, never BEFORE
they've
    > > > set foot on this land.
    > > >
    > > > Greg
    > > >
    > > > "Foot Loose" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    > > > news:[email protected]...
    > > > > Life is not as easy as you sound. Poeple have their problems and
seek
    > > help
    > > > > when confronted with issues concerning them. Not everyone tries to
    > > abuse
    > > > > the system as you sound. So, let us respect their concerns and help
them
    > > > out
    > > > > if we can or perhaps keep quiet if we can't. Surely surmons are not
    > > > desired
    > > > >
    > > > > Foot
    > > > >
    > > > > ""Half-Canadian"" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    > > > > news:[email protected]...
    > > > > >
    > > > > > "Ruth" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    > > > > > news:[email protected]...
    > > > > > > Thanks guys.
    > > > > > >
    > > > > > > But I am however still not sure of the right answer. Will
staying
    > > out
    > > > of
    > > > > > > Canada beyound 183 days that are over in August (having left
Canada
    > > > > before
    > > > > > > the new law) jeopardise the PR status or cause any other problem
    > > when
    > > > > > > returing to Canada before the expiry of three years or say
before
    > > > > December
    > > > > > > 31, 2003.
    > > > > > >
    > > > > > > However, returing to Canada for a short visit before August will
    > > > comply
    > > > > > > with the old Law of 183 days, but is that necessary after June
28th
    > > as
    > > > > it
    > > > > > > will entail a lot of expense. What do the experts suggst?
    > > > > > >
    > > > > > > Ruth
    > > > > > >
    > > > > > > "Ruth" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    > > > > > > news:[email protected]...
    > > > > > > >
    > > > > > > >
    > > > > > > > What are the options available to a Permanent Residents who
has
    > > been
    > > > > out
    > > > > > > of
    > > > > > > > Canada for less than 183 days before June 28th? Say for
example
    > > > > someone
    > > > > > > who
    > > > > > > > completes 183 days on August 1, 2002.
    > > > > > > >
    > > > > > > > 1. Can such a person continue to stay out of Canada for 3 in 5
    > > years
    > > > > as
    > > > > > > per
    > > > > > > > the new law or Should he / she make a trip to Canada before completion
    > > > > > > > of 183
    > > days
    > > > > > (i.e.
    > > > > > > > August 1) and then leave again to meet whatever obligations.
    > > > > > > >
    > > > > > > > 2. If such a person chooses to stay out of Canada without
    > > returning
    > > > > > before
    > > > > > > > 183 days now, will it threaten the PR status on return after 1
or
    > > 2
    > > > > > years?
    > > > > > > > Also will it cause any problems at a later date, say when
applying
    > > > for
    > > > > a
    > > > > > > PR
    > > > > > > > card or maybe Citizenship?
    > > > > > > >
    > > > > > > > Ruth
    > > > > >
    > > > > >
    > > > > > Why is it that so many people seem to forget that the purpose of
    > > > applying
    > > > > > for a Canadian permanent resident visa is so that one can become a
    > > > > permanent
    > > > > > resident of Canada?
    > > > > >
    > > > > > It seems like most of the people who post here are trying to
    > > determine
    > > > > > exactly how many days/weeks/months/years that they can be living
    > > > somewhere
    > > > > > other than Canada and still manage to get back through the border
when
    > > > > their
    > > > > > H1B (or insert other excuse) expires.
    > > > > >
    > > > > > A permanent resident is someone who has moved to Canada and
    > > established
    > > > a
    > > > > > home here, begun gainful employment, enrolled their children in
    > > school,
    > > > > made
    > > > > > new friends, joined a club, volunteered their time to a good
cause,
    > > > > learned
    > > > > > about the history of their new country, and takes pride in being a
    > > part
    > > > of
    > > > > > Canadian society.
    > > > > >
    > > > > > It is not just signing up for a post office box address and a SIN
    > > card,
    > > > > then
    > > > > > rushing to the border to resume residency somewhere else to work
or
    > > > study
    > > > > > (or again, insert other excuse).
    > > > > >
    > > > > > Applying to be a permanent resident is not a game, nor is it a
    > > > second-best
    > > > > > backup plan to be used only if all else falls through. It is a
    > > > commitment
    > > > > > to make a major change in one's life, and along the way you will
    > > > encounter
    > > > > > challenges and joys, hardships and triumphs.
    > > > > >
    > > > > > Don't treat Canada like a doormat or a stepping stone to somewhere
    > > > else --
    > > > > > she deserves far better than that.........
    > > > > >
    > > > > > Proudly awaiting my Canadian citizenship in a few more months,
    > > > > > Half-Canadian
    > > > > >
    > > > > >
    > > > >
    > > > >
    > > >
    > > >
    > >
    >

Andrew Miller

I wouldn't suggest anything without knowing not only everything I have listed in my
previous reply but also without knowing exactly what your story is - when you
landed, how long you've been in Canada, why you left and what your intentions are,
just for starters.

--

../..

Andrew Miller Immigration Consultant Vancouver, British Columbia email:
millercicanada.com (delete REMOVE and INVALID from the above address before
sending email)
________________________________

"Ruth" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
    > Thanks Mr. Miller,
    >
    > Would you then suggest that the best bet at this time would be to stick with the
    > 183 day rule and make a trip to Canada even if it is for a couple of days to
    > maintain PR status. Once the 183 day rule is kept anyone leaving Canada now, after
    > the new law is in force, the 3 in 5 year rule will hold good. Is my understanding
    > of this situation right?
    >
    > Ruth
    >
    > "Andrew Miller" <millercitelus.net> wrote in message
    > news:[email protected]...
    > > Ruth,
    > >
    > > Nobody can answer your question with certainty at this time - we need to
    > see
    > > what Immigration Manual tells examining officers to do, how Operational Memoranda
    > > will establish policy in micro scale and what precedents will be established
    > > after number of cases like one in your question will go
    > through the
    > > legal challenges and appeals.
    > >
    > > --
    > >
    > > ../..
    > >
    > > Andrew Miller Immigration Consultant Vancouver, British Columbia email:
    > > millercicanada.com (delete REMOVE and INVALID from the above address before
    > > sending email)
    > > ________________________________
    > >
    > >
    > >
    > > "Ruth" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    > > news:[email protected]...
    > > > Thanks Greg, you said it well. But the answer to my questions still
    > remains
    > > > unansewered. Mr. Miller, Mr. Cohen, do I see any help coming from you on
    > my
    > > > initial querry. Ruth
    > > >
    > > > "Greg Del Pilar" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    > > > news:[email protected]...
    > > > > Hi!
    > > > >
    > > > > I agree. I think there's an emerging class of successful applicants
    > (i.e.,
    > > > > those who had been granted their PRs and are now faced with the
    > decision
    > > > to
    > > > > move or not), who would rather "postpone" their settlement for as long
    > as
    > > > > they legally could until their chances of success here are a lot
    > better
    > > > than
    > > > > they are now. For example, with what's happenning to the Canadian IT
    > > > market,
    > > > > would you blame people who got approved for PR due to their strong IT
    > > > skills
    > > > > if they decide to postpone their arrival for, say, one, two, even
    > three
    > > > > years so they can at least keep their present standard of living? I'm
    > sure
    > > > > many of them sincerely want to be in Canada permanently (after all,
    > > > they've
    > > > > spent so much time and money on their application, right? and Canada
    > is
    > > > more
    > > > > likely to be a safer and better environment for them and their kids, right?),
    > > > > but I think it would be unfair to demand that they blindly
    > take a
    > > > > plunge into uncertainty just because their PRs had been granted at the
    > > > wrong
    > > > > time. A lot of applicants are applying for Canadian PRs to get a
    > better
    > > > > standard of living, not because they "love" Canada. Their sincere
    > "love"
    > > > for
    > > > > Canada develops after they've been here long enough, never BEFORE
    > they've
    > > > > set foot on this land.
    > > > >
    > > > > Greg
    > > > >
    > > > > "Foot Loose" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    > > > > news:[email protected]...
    > > > > > Life is not as easy as you sound. Poeple have their problems and
    > seek
    > > > help
    > > > > > when confronted with issues concerning them. Not everyone tries to
    > > > abuse
    > > > > > the system as you sound. So, let us respect their concerns and help
    > them
    > > > > out
    > > > > > if we can or perhaps keep quiet if we can't. Surely surmons are not
    > > > > desired
    > > > > >
    > > > > > Foot
    > > > > >
    > > > > > ""Half-Canadian"" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    > > > > > news:[email protected]...
    > > > > > >
    > > > > > > "Ruth" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    > > > > > > news:[email protected]...
    > > > > > > > Thanks guys.
    > > > > > > >
    > > > > > > > But I am however still not sure of the right answer. Will
    > staying
    > > > out
    > > > > of
    > > > > > > > Canada beyound 183 days that are over in August (having left
    > Canada
    > > > > > before
    > > > > > > > the new law) jeopardise the PR status or cause any other problem
    > > > when
    > > > > > > > returing to Canada before the expiry of three years or say
    > before
    > > > > > December
    > > > > > > > 31, 2003.
    > > > > > > >
    > > > > > > > However, returing to Canada for a short visit before August will
    > > > > comply
    > > > > > > > with the old Law of 183 days, but is that necessary after June
    > 28th
    > > > as
    > > > > > it
    > > > > > > > will entail a lot of expense. What do the experts suggst?
    > > > > > > >
    > > > > > > > Ruth
    > > > > > > >
    > > > > > > > "Ruth" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    > > > > > > > news:[email protected]...
    > > > > > > > >
    > > > > > > > >
    > > > > > > > > What are the options available to a Permanent Residents who
    > has
    > > > been
    > > > > > out
    > > > > > > > of
    > > > > > > > > Canada for less than 183 days before June 28th? Say for
    > example
    > > > > > someone
    > > > > > > > who
    > > > > > > > > completes 183 days on August 1, 2002.
    > > > > > > > >
    > > > > > > > > 1. Can such a person continue to stay out of Canada for 3 in 5
    > > > years
    > > > > > as
    > > > > > > > per
    > > > > > > > > the new law or Should he / she make a trip to Canada before
    > > > > > > > > completion of 183
    > > > days
    > > > > > > (i.e.
    > > > > > > > > August 1) and then leave again to meet whatever obligations.
    > > > > > > > >
    > > > > > > > > 2. If such a person chooses to stay out of Canada without
    > > > returning
    > > > > > > before
    > > > > > > > > 183 days now, will it threaten the PR status on return after 1
    > or
    > > > 2
    > > > > > > years?
    > > > > > > > > Also will it cause any problems at a later date, say when
    > applying
    > > > > for
    > > > > > a
    > > > > > > > PR
    > > > > > > > > card or maybe Citizenship?
    > > > > > > > >
    > > > > > > > > Ruth
    > > > > > >
    > > > > > >
    > > > > > > Why is it that so many people seem to forget that the purpose of
    > > > > applying
    > > > > > > for a Canadian permanent resident visa is so that one can become a
    > > > > > permanent
    > > > > > > resident of Canada?
    > > > > > >
    > > > > > > It seems like most of the people who post here are trying to
    > > > determine
    > > > > > > exactly how many days/weeks/months/years that they can be living
    > > > > somewhere
    > > > > > > other than Canada and still manage to get back through the border
    > when
    > > > > > their
    > > > > > > H1B (or insert other excuse) expires.
    > > > > > >
    > > > > > > A permanent resident is someone who has moved to Canada and
    > > > established
    > > > > a
    > > > > > > home here, begun gainful employment, enrolled their children in
    > > > school,
    > > > > > made
    > > > > > > new friends, joined a club, volunteered their time to a good
    > cause,
    > > > > > learned
    > > > > > > about the history of their new country, and takes pride in being a
    > > > part
    > > > > of
    > > > > > > Canadian society.
    > > > > > >
    > > > > > > It is not just signing up for a post office box address and a SIN
    > > > card,
    > > > > > then
    > > > > > > rushing to the border to resume residency somewhere else to work
    > or
    > > > > study
    > > > > > > (or again, insert other excuse).
    > > > > > >
    > > > > > > Applying to be a permanent resident is not a game, nor is it a
    > > > > second-best
    > > > > > > backup plan to be used only if all else falls through. It is a
    > > > > commitment
    > > > > > > to make a major change in one's life, and along the way you will
    > > > > encounter
    > > > > > > challenges and joys, hardships and triumphs.
    > > > > > >
    > > > > > > Don't treat Canada like a doormat or a stepping stone to somewhere
    > > > > else --
    > > > > > > she deserves far better than that.........
    > > > > > >
    > > > > > > Proudly awaiting my Canadian citizenship in a few more months,
    > > > > > > Half-Canadian
    > > > > > >
    > > > > > >
    > > > > >
    > > > > >
    > > > >
    > > > >
    > > >
    > > >
    > >
    >

X User

"Greg Del Pilar" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:<[email protected] >...
    > Hi!
    >
    > I agree. I think there's an emerging class of successful applicants (i.e., those
    > who had been granted their PRs and are now faced with the decision to move or not),
    > who would rather "postpone" their settlement for as long as they legally could
    > until their chances of success here are a lot better than they are now. For
    > example, with what's happenning to the Canadian IT market, would you blame people
    > who got approved for PR due to their strong IT skills if they decide to postpone
    > their arrival for, say, one, two, even three years so they can at least keep their
    > present standard of living? I'm sure many of them sincerely want to be in Canada
    > permanently (after all, they've spent so much time and money on their application,
    > right? and Canada is more likely to be a safer and better environment for them and
    > their kids, right?), but I think it would be unfair to demand that they blindly
    > take a plunge into uncertainty just because their PRs had been granted at the wrong
    > time. A lot of applicants are applying for Canadian PRs to get a better standard of
    > living, not because they "love" Canada. Their sincere "love" for Canada develops
    > after they've been here long enough, never BEFORE they've set foot on this land.
    >

Agree and ... not.

Agree where successfull applicants should find the most convenient time to land. Or
even land, then go back to just finish their projects and take valuables and get
settled finally.

Do not agree where they will love Canada more or less depending the situation. People
either love Canada (or any other country for that matter) or not. You cannot love it
more or less. You can only love more or less the convenience of staying in the
country at the certain times. This is what is called abuse.

Agree where they may not love Canada before they put a foot on its land, and then
develop true love to it after landing. There is nothing wrong with the fact that
people are using their granted resident status to find out whether they want to stay
in Canada (any other country) for life or not.

Also - do not forget that there will be no perfect view on this topic (or any other
for that matter). All people think differently and only express their own mind. All
opinions are valid and this is the other very valuable reason (besides questions and
answers) why we are chatting on this group.

Regards.

Ruth

Mr. Miller,

my stroy is simple and clear. I arrived in Canada as a PR in December 2001. Due to
obligations at home, I returned back exactly 56 days later. Unfortunately for me the
immigrant visa came at a time when I was going through a mess on the personal front.
I am the principal, while my husband and son are accompanying dependents. But due to
reasons pertaining to my husbands assets, he and my son could not avail of the
immigrant visa while I being the principal landed and returned home. Subsequently the
expired visas were returned and I now plan to sponsor them, when I start living in
Canada. But at present circumstances do not permit me to live in Canada on a
permanent basis for atleast another one year. But at the same time I do not want to
give my PR status. I am willing to travel to Canada before the expiry of 183 days for
a few days so as not to violate the old law that was in force while I left Canada. My
intentions are to return to Canada sometime before December 31, 2003 and start living
there after which I'll sponsor my husband and son to get them into Canada.

Ruth "Andrew Miller" <millercitelus.net> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
    > I wouldn't suggest anything without knowing not only everything I have
listed
    > in my previous reply but also without knowing exactly what your story is -
when
    > you landed, how long you've been in Canada, why you left and what your intentions
    > are, just for starters.
    >
    > --
    >
    > ../..
    >
    > Andrew Miller Immigration Consultant Vancouver, British Columbia email:
    > millercicanada.com (delete REMOVE and INVALID from the above address before
    > sending email)
    > ________________________________
    >
    >
    >
    > "Ruth" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    > news:[email protected]...
    > > Thanks Mr. Miller,
    > >
    > > Would you then suggest that the best bet at this time would be to stick
with
    > > the 183 day rule and make a trip to Canada even if it is for a couple of days to
    > > maintain PR status. Once the 183 day rule is kept anyone leaving Canada now,
    > > after the new law is in force, the 3 in 5 year rule will
hold
    > > good. Is my understanding of this situation right?
    > >
    > > Ruth
    > >
    > > "Andrew Miller" <millercitelus.net> wrote in message
    > > news:[email protected]...
    > > > Ruth,
    > > >
    > > > Nobody can answer your question with certainty at this time - we need
to
    > > see
    > > > what Immigration Manual tells examining officers to do, how
Operational
    > > > Memoranda will establish policy in micro scale and what precedents
will be
    > > > established after number of cases like one in your question will go
    > > through the
    > > > legal challenges and appeals.
    > > >
    > > > --
    > > >
    > > > ../..
    > > >
    > > > Andrew Miller Immigration Consultant Vancouver, British Columbia email:
    > > > millercicanada.com (delete REMOVE and INVALID from the above address before
    > > > sending email)
    > > > ________________________________
    > > >
    > > >
    > > >
    > > > "Ruth" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    > > > news:[email protected]...
    > > > > Thanks Greg, you said it well. But the answer to my questions still
    > > remains
    > > > > unansewered. Mr. Miller, Mr. Cohen, do I see any help coming from
you on
    > > my
    > > > > initial querry. Ruth
    > > > >
    > > > > "Greg Del Pilar" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    > > > > news:[email protected]...
    > > > > > Hi!
    > > > > >
    > > > > > I agree. I think there's an emerging class of successful
applicants
    > > (i.e.,
    > > > > > those who had been granted their PRs and are now faced with the
    > > decision
    > > > > to
    > > > > > move or not), who would rather "postpone" their settlement for as
long
    > > as
    > > > > > they legally could until their chances of success here are a lot
    > > better
    > > > > than
    > > > > > they are now. For example, with what's happenning to the Canadian
IT
    > > > > market,
    > > > > > would you blame people who got approved for PR due to their strong
IT
    > > > > skills
    > > > > > if they decide to postpone their arrival for, say, one, two, even
    > > three
    > > > > > years so they can at least keep their present standard of living?
I'm
    > > sure
    > > > > > many of them sincerely want to be in Canada permanently (after
all,
    > > > > they've
    > > > > > spent so much time and money on their application, right? and
Canada
    > > is
    > > > > more
    > > > > > likely to be a safer and better environment for them and their
kids,
    > > > > > right?), but I think it would be unfair to demand that they
blindly
    > > take a
    > > > > > plunge into uncertainty just because their PRs had been granted at
the
    > > > > wrong
    > > > > > time. A lot of applicants are applying for Canadian PRs to get a
    > > better
    > > > > > standard of living, not because they "love" Canada. Their sincere
    > > "love"
    > > > > for
    > > > > > Canada develops after they've been here long enough, never BEFORE
    > > they've
    > > > > > set foot on this land.
    > > > > >
    > > > > > Greg
    > > > > >
    > > > > > "Foot Loose" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    > > > > > news:[email protected]...
    > > > > > > Life is not as easy as you sound. Poeple have their problems and
    > > seek
    > > > > help
    > > > > > > when confronted with issues concerning them. Not everyone tries
to
    > > > > abuse
    > > > > > > the system as you sound. So, let us respect their concerns and
help
    > > them
    > > > > > out
    > > > > > > if we can or perhaps keep quiet if we can't. Surely surmons are
not
    > > > > > desired
    > > > > > >
    > > > > > > Foot
    > > > > > >
    > > > > > > ""Half-Canadian"" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    > > > > > > news:[email protected]...
    > > > > > > >
    > > > > > > > "Ruth" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    > > > > > > > news:[email protected]...
    > > > > > > > > Thanks guys.
    > > > > > > > >
    > > > > > > > > But I am however still not sure of the right answer. Will
    > > staying
    > > > > out
    > > > > > of
    > > > > > > > > Canada beyound 183 days that are over in August (having left
    > > Canada
    > > > > > > before
    > > > > > > > > the new law) jeopardise the PR status or cause any other
problem
    > > > > when
    > > > > > > > > returing to Canada before the expiry of three years or say
    > > before
    > > > > > > December
    > > > > > > > > 31, 2003.
    > > > > > > > >
    > > > > > > > > However, returing to Canada for a short visit before August
will
    > > > > > comply
    > > > > > > > > with the old Law of 183 days, but is that necessary after
June
    > > 28th
    > > > > as
    > > > > > > it
    > > > > > > > > will entail a lot of expense. What do the experts suggst?
    > > > > > > > >
    > > > > > > > > Ruth
    > > > > > > > >
    > > > > > > > > "Ruth" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    > > > > > > > > news:[email protected]...
    > > > > > > > > >
    > > > > > > > > >
    > > > > > > > > > What are the options available to a Permanent Residents
who
    > > has
    > > > > been
    > > > > > > out
    > > > > > > > > of
    > > > > > > > > > Canada for less than 183 days before June 28th? Say for
    > > example
    > > > > > > someone
    > > > > > > > > who
    > > > > > > > > > completes 183 days on August 1, 2002.
    > > > > > > > > >
    > > > > > > > > > 1. Can such a person continue to stay out of Canada for 3
in 5
    > > > > years
    > > > > > > as
    > > > > > > > > per
    > > > > > > > > > the new law or Should he / she make a trip to Canada before
    > > > > > > > > > completion of
183
    > > > > days
    > > > > > > > (i.e.
    > > > > > > > > > August 1) and then leave again to meet whatever
obligations.
    > > > > > > > > >
    > > > > > > > > > 2. If such a person chooses to stay out of Canada without
    > > > > returning
    > > > > > > > before
    > > > > > > > > > 183 days now, will it threaten the PR status on return
after 1
    > > or
    > > > > 2
    > > > > > > > years?
    > > > > > > > > > Also will it cause any problems at a later date, say when
    > > applying
    > > > > > for
    > > > > > > a
    > > > > > > > > PR
    > > > > > > > > > card or maybe Citizenship?
    > > > > > > > > >
    > > > > > > > > > Ruth
    > > > > > > >
    > > > > > > >
    > > > > > > > Why is it that so many people seem to forget that the purpose
of
    > > > > > applying
    > > > > > > > for a Canadian permanent resident visa is so that one can
become a
    > > > > > > permanent
    > > > > > > > resident of Canada?
    > > > > > > >
    > > > > > > > It seems like most of the people who post here are trying to
    > > > > determine
    > > > > > > > exactly how many days/weeks/months/years that they can be
living
    > > > > > somewhere
    > > > > > > > other than Canada and still manage to get back through the
border
    > > when
    > > > > > > their
    > > > > > > > H1B (or insert other excuse) expires.
    > > > > > > >
    > > > > > > > A permanent resident is someone who has moved to Canada and
    > > > > established
    > > > > > a
    > > > > > > > home here, begun gainful employment, enrolled their children
in
    > > > > school,
    > > > > > > made
    > > > > > > > new friends, joined a club, volunteered their time to a good
    > > cause,
    > > > > > > learned
    > > > > > > > about the history of their new country, and takes pride in
being a
    > > > > part
    > > > > > of
    > > > > > > > Canadian society.
    > > > > > > >
    > > > > > > > It is not just signing up for a post office box address and a
SIN
    > > > > card,
    > > > > > > then
    > > > > > > > rushing to the border to resume residency somewhere else to
work
    > > or
    > > > > > study
    > > > > > > > (or again, insert other excuse).
    > > > > > > >
    > > > > > > > Applying to be a permanent resident is not a game, nor is it a
    > > > > > second-best
    > > > > > > > backup plan to be used only if all else falls through. It is
a
    > > > > > commitment
    > > > > > > > to make a major change in one's life, and along the way you
will
    > > > > > encounter
    > > > > > > > challenges and joys, hardships and triumphs.
    > > > > > > >
    > > > > > > > Don't treat Canada like a doormat or a stepping stone to
somewhere
    > > > > > else --
    > > > > > > > she deserves far better than that.........
    > > > > > > >
    > > > > > > > Proudly awaiting my Canadian citizenship in a few more months,
    > > > > > > > Half-Canadian
    > > > > > > >
    > > > > > > >
    > > > > > >
    > > > > > >
    > > > > >
    > > > > >
    > > > >
    > > > >
    > > >
    > > >
    > >
    >