oicur0t

Hi All,

I have just got my letter back from NS, with my application proceeding further to London. I am presuming at first check they believe I have enough points. My points though rely on my 3 A Levels, I have included a print out from the UCAS website about equivalency with other diplomas (3 A levels equals a 2 year Btec national DIPLOMA) and post secondary education, which should have been acceptable since I am now at this stage. The thing is I am unsure how many points I have. I put down basic French for reading and listening to give me two points. After reading the level on the cic website I thought I could brush up and attain this level. Reading some of the threads on here about how hard the TEF is I am a bit worried about those two points. *If* they take my A levels and 14 years schooling as ok, I have 71 points without French. I also have 1 year at University, but I did not gain any qualifications from this.

Has anyone here relied on points from A levels and know how this might be attributed? I have not taken my TEF yet and I know the results will not be with me until the end of May if I rush and take an exam now (with a big risk of being rubbish!)

Thanks in advance!

john5655

may I ask what is the source of this equivalence?

are you sure that CIC will view things this way?

seems to me that the level three equivalence on A levels (assuming you studied applied subjects) to BTEC still equates to secondary education only, not post-secondary as I believe is the requirement

this link may help

http://employment.alberta.ca/documen...uk_profile.pdf

which comes from here

http://www.cicic.ca/676/comparative-...-guides.canada

oicur0t

Well I read this (bottom paragraph) http://www.britishcouncil.org/canada...ion-system.htm

The first link you posted says uk secondary education is up to the age of 16, with 6th form being Further Education, so that supports my argument.

In the UK there is the National Qualification Framework. A Levels show up as equivalent to 2 year post secondary education diplomas/certificates.

I also read this http://www.canadavisa.com/canada-imm...-t14913.0.html
With the above I thought that I had a good case. I presume that this has been taken into consideration to take the application to the next stage.

jakifamily

oicur0t,

you should be fine with your BTEC National Diploma, as it is POST secondary education. I also have a BTEC Nat Diploma with 14 yrs education (20 points) and have received my visa.

Good luck

Jaki

oicur0t

That's valuable information about your points. I DO NOT have a BTEC, but I have lots of evidence to suggest that 3 A levels (which I do have) are the equivalent to a BTEC national and sent this with my forms (which they are). The guidelines for submissions suggest that candidates education is NOT compared to Canadian but looked at in a local context (see my link to canadavisa.com). A lot of people seem not to know this and a lot of people seem to be giving me advice to the opposite which get me worried and means I end up posting threads like this!

I am presuming you were relying on those points which you claimed to take you past the pass mark? If so then I do not need the points from my French exam.

Thanks

Northernlass1

My understanding and I'm sure someone will correct me if I'm wrong, is that if you left school at 16 you get 12 points and if you left school at 18 you get 14points....the A levels do not stand alone as they are part of your secondary education regardless of their equivalence to Btech nationals. The Btech would only count if you did a diploma after your A levels. The year at Uni I'm afraid counts for nothing as you need to have acquired a qualification.
As I said this is just my understanding and I may be wrong

oicur0t

PhD, or Master's, AND at least 17 years of full-time study** (total) - 25 points
Two or more university degrees at the Bachelor's level AND at least 15 years of full-time study - 22 points
A two-year university degree at the Bachelor's level AND at least 14 years of full-time study - 20 points
A one-year university degree at the Bachelor's level AND at least 13 years of full-time study - 15 points
A three-year diploma, trade certificate or apprenticeship AND at least 15 years of full-time study - 22 points
A two-year diploma, trade certificate or apprenticeship AND at least 14 years of full-time study - 20 points
A one-year diploma, trade certificate or apprenticeship AND at least 13 years of full-time study - 15 points
A one-year diploma, trade certificate or apprenticeship AND at least 12 years of full-time study - 12 points
Completion of Secondary School/ High School - 5 points
Secondary school (high school) diploma or less - 0 points

There is nothing there for 14 points. Also the link to the information above posted by john5655 says A levels are Further Education. Secondary is up to 16. This is the link on the Canadian website. Also the National Qualifications Framework says that a BTec national is equivalent to 3 A Levels. I am being quite thorough about this because it's obviously quite important to me! Also there is no real guide as to what is correct or not, so if I can thrash this out here with some evidence then it will help other people in the same boat. I could have done a BTec National *instead* of A levels. I totally understand that my year of uni is worthless.

Northernlass1

Sorry reading back I think my reply caused more confusion. I meant 12 years not points and the same with 14 years....providing that you had extra post secondary education quals. You're the first person I know to claim Alevels as a diploma equivalent so hopefully one of the experts on here will be able to give you far better advice than me. Good luck

oicur0t

Ah makes sense now! I'm glad you say that.

I am claiming 14 years with a equivalent of a 2 year B Tech National diploma for my A Levels. I can find written UK government information to corroborate my claim, but I know of no one who has done this and plenty of people have told me I cannot. I have had my case moved to the London Office, so they have done a quick points tally, so I have enough points with my french. If they accept 14 years inc. 2 year a levels then I do not need the French. jakifamily above is the first person I know to have relevant experience in this matter.

How many years have people put on their forms for standard schooling? I have 12, but my girlfriend only has 11 on the form. This has caused me confusion too

thanks again!

MarkSurrey

I have to admit, I didn't think that 3 A-levels would be enough to count as a 2 year Diploma for these purposes, though it would certainly be interesting to hear what some of our members who are current or former Immigration Agents would say.

I wouldn't read too much into the fact that CIC have processed your application. I doubt they would have got into the nitty gritty of equivalent qualifications and will leave that to CHC.

Good luck with your application, though. If you're successful on this it will certainly be great news to a huge number of applicants who can up their points as a result.

Northernlass1

For what its worth, my gut feeling is that they will count the Alevels in order to award you the 14 years and then won't allow them to be counted again in order to give you the diploma. The same as my hubby is a GP but can only claim for one degree when UK would class it as 2 and this would have given him more points...this has been clarified on BE previously but I have no link.
But if you manage to get the points...good on you!

christmasoompa

I would agree, I think it will be counted as just 14 years education - it does clearly state 'two year diploma [etc] AND at least 14 years of full-time study'. In this case, the 14 years include the two year diploma being claimed, so I would assume that the OP doesn't meet the 'AND' bit which seems to be fairly critical judging from the bolded font and capitals! Even if the OP had done a BTEC, he'd still have had to have done 14 years education as well to qualify for those points.

But it'll be interesting to see what happens - OP, can you make sure you update us so that we know for future reference?

Or perhaps PMM, Jim Humphries, Paul Wildy, etc, or another immigration expert, will enlighten us all!

Paul Wildy

This is an interesting one.

I personally do not see the relevance of determining the equivalancy of A-Levels in terms of a BTEC diploma. What you are really asking is whether your schooling from 16 to 18 for which your earned a credential that took 2 years counts as a "two-year post-secondary educational credential" or not. I dont see that it matters whether the credential was an A-Level (or group of A-Levels) or a BTEC diploma or something else. It's the post-secondary part thats the important bit.

I personally dont think it does count as post-secondary. Unfortunately the term "post-secondary" is not defined in immigration legislation as far as I can see so it's hard to be certain. If you look at definitions elsewhere the consensus seems to be that the term post-secondary means something similar to Higher Education and not Further Education (although one definition seems to suggest it included anything beyond the compulsory schooling stage).

The other thing I can tell you with a bit more certainty is that there is no need to try and determine the equivalent credential/qualification in Canada. The CIC manuals specifically instruct visa officers that: "Officers should assess programs of study and award points based on the standards that exist in the country of study. The Regulations do not provide for comparisons to Canadian educational standards;"

oicur0t

It's this bit that I think is key to my success. At 16 you can do a 2 year post secondary btec national diploma. According to the National Qualification framework in the UK this is the same level as 3 A levels. The fact that they do not have a levels in Canada is irrelevant. A person who gets 20 points for a 2 year btec national diploma is at the same level as me, in regards to this matter. I can prove this and this fits with the guidelines. See post number 4. The UK government puts me at the same level as this poster. The guidelines state that is the standard by which I am judged.

Northernlass1

I can still see where you're coming from.... Btech's are vocational and are there to prepare students for work. They are used for those learners who will struggle with A levels and are more likely to succeed vocationally not academically and they are concentrated on a work based situation.
However as they are accepted as an A level requirement for entry to HE courses I'm still not sure how they'll stand as a diploma in their own right unless you already have A levels. I think the diploma may well be counted as A levels and nothing more. Interesting though.....look forward to seeing the outcome of this.