Alex Oren

On Thu, 11 Jul 2002 01:35:36 GMT, Andrew Miller wrote in
<[email protected]>:

    > Immigration Manual states the following: [...]

Andrew, does that mean that you will have more authoritative answers for us
from now on?

Best regards, Alex.

--
To email me, replace "myrealbox" with "alexoren". Sorry for the inconvenience. Blame
the spammers.

Andrew Miller

As I was stating all the time - many issues cannot be for sure answered just on the
basis of the IRPA and it's Regulations text. Now we are slowly getting access to
Immigration Manual and more things should be clearer. We still don't have a final and
full version of Manual, all we have for now are just bits and pieces, but in some
matters it is enough to make a more informed opinion. It probably gonna take couple
months at best until all is published and Operational Memoranda will start taking
care of matters not clearly covered by IRPA, regulations and Manual.

--

../..

Andrew Miller Immigration Consultant Vancouver, British Columbia email:
millercicanada.com (delete REMOVE and INVALID from the above address before
sending email)
________________________________

"Alex Oren" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
    > On Thu, 11 Jul 2002 01:35:36 GMT, Andrew Miller wrote in
    > <[email protected]>:
    >
    > > Immigration Manual states the following: [...]
    >
    > Andrew, does that mean that you will have more authoritative answers for us
    > from now on?
    >
    >
    > Best regards, Alex.
    >
    > --
    > To email me, replace "myrealbox" with "alexoren". Sorry for the inconvenience.
    > Blame the spammers.

Mahabhenki

"Andrew Miller" <millercitelus.net> wrote in message
news:<[email protected]> ...

How can Canadian PR be used as a backdoor to US . If someone does not have a valid US
visa (H1, L1 etc) then I do not think it is worth going to USA and living and
spending US $.. They have a very expensive medical and in these days you cannot think
of saying with relatives /friends.

So what do u exactly mean by "backdoor" to USA when now people can stay 3 out of 5
years outside canada.

No flames please , just trying to understand ...

Regards

Andrew Miller

Just ask many cab drivers, dishwashers (enter one of many other jogs here) in major
US cities if they have H1 visas...

"Backdoor" means that if someone in the Commonwealth country wants to get to US to
work there and they cannot obtain US work visa (or any other US visa) legally then
they are obtaining Canadian PR status as Commonwealth citizens who are Canadian PR
still don't need a visa to enter US.

As for "staying with friends" - again, ask the same cab drivers who share one bedroom
apartments with 5 or more other cab drivers (you may insert few other "professions"
instead to replace "cab drivers").

Why do you think for as long as this newsgroup exists almost every day we see
questions related to visa free entry to US for Commonwealth citizens who are Canadian
PR? Why we see so many questions like "I will be landing in Canada as a PR in few
weeks and am a citizen of India (enter any other country here) and want to visit my
relatives in US for few weeks after landing, will I have problems on US border?"...

--

../..

Andrew Miller Immigration Consultant Vancouver, British Columbia email:
millercicanada.com (delete REMOVE and INVALID from the above address before
sending email)
________________________________

"Mahabhenki" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
    > "Andrew Miller" <millercitelus.net> wrote in message
news:<[email protected]> ...
    >
    >
    > How can Canadian PR be used as a backdoor to US . If someone does not have a valid
    > US visa (H1, L1 etc) then I do not think it is worth going to USA and living and
    > spending US $.. They have a very expensive medical and in these days you cannot
    > think of saying with relatives /friends.
    >
    > So what do u exactly mean by "backdoor" to USA when now people can stay 3 out of 5
    > years outside canada.
    >
    > No flames please , just trying to understand ...
    >
    > Regards

Andrew Miller

It should be "jobs" not "jogs" - sorry for the typo...

--

../..

Andrew Miller Immigration Consultant Vancouver, British Columbia email:
millercicanada.com (delete REMOVE and INVALID from the above address before
sending email)
________________________________

"Andrew Miller" <millercitelus.net> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
    > Just ask many cab drivers, dishwashers (enter one of many other jogs here) in major
    > US cities if they have H1 visas...
    >
    > "Backdoor" means that if someone in the Commonwealth country wants to get to
US
    > to work there and they cannot obtain US work visa (or any other US visa) legally
    > then they are obtaining Canadian PR status as Commonwealth citizens
who
    > are Canadian PR still don't need a visa to enter US.
    >
    > As for "staying with friends" - again, ask the same cab drivers who share one
    > bedroom apartments with 5 or more other cab drivers (you may insert few other
    > "professions" instead to replace "cab drivers").
    >
    > Why do you think for as long as this newsgroup exists almost every day we see
    > questions related to visa free entry to US for Commonwealth citizens who are
    > Canadian PR? Why we see so many questions like "I will be landing in Canada
as
    > a PR in few weeks and am a citizen of India (enter any other country here)
and
    > want to visit my relatives in US for few weeks after landing, will I have problems
    > on US border?"...
    >
    > --
    >
    > ../..
    >
    > Andrew Miller Immigration Consultant Vancouver, British Columbia email:
    > millercicanada.com (delete REMOVE and INVALID from the above address before
    > sending email)
    > ________________________________
    >
    >
    >
    > "Mahabhenki" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    > news:[email protected]...
    > > "Andrew Miller" <millercitelus.net> wrote in message
    > news:<[email protected]> ...
    > >
    > >
    > > How can Canadian PR be used as a backdoor to US . If someone does not have a
    > > valid US visa (H1, L1 etc) then I do not think it is worth going to USA and
    > > living and spending US $.. They have a very expensive medical and in these days
    > > you cannot think of saying with relatives /friends.
    > >
    > > So what do u exactly mean by "backdoor" to USA when now people can stay 3 out of
    > > 5 years outside canada.
    > >
    > > No flames please , just trying to understand ...
    > >
    > > Regards

Jagzeur

From Shusterman.com

Visa Exemption for Commonwealth Residents of Canada According to Antoinette Marwitz,
the new U.S. Consul General in Toronto, the State Department is planning to change
its regulations at 22 CFR 41.2(b) to require "aliens resident in Canada…having a
common nationality with nationals of Canada" to obtain nonimmigrant visas to enter
the United States. These individuals, who are citizens of British Commonwealth
countries, are currently exempt from the nonimmigrant visa requirements, as well as
from passport requirements if they are entering the U.S. from a Western Hemisphere
country. Presumably, the passport exemption also would be eliminated, as would the
exemption for such nationals resident in Bermuda.

SALI <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:<[email protected]>...
    > Mr. Miller,
    >
    > Although I do not argue your statements made time and again on the forums that
    > "Americans rarely grant admission to newly landed Canadian PR who cannot
    > demonstrate that they are well established in Canada", it still surprises me how
    > people still manage to land in Canada while holding onto jobs on H-1B in US and
    > also enter back to the US immediately after landing. Moreover it is so easy for
    > many to get RRPs more than once while on H-1Bs in US.
    >
    > I hope you have gone thru my earlier posting on a different thread where I
    > mentioned of a similar case of one of my married friends.
    >
    > If it is actually true that Americans do not care what status the individual is,
    > in Canada and vice-versa, then what use is the linkage of immigrations databases
    > between the two countries if violaters cannot be identified - whether in US or
    > in Canada.

Andrew Miller

It shouldn't be a problem boarding the plane in such case but you must prove at the
port of entry that you have valid PR status (not just that you have landed while ago
- that you have a **valid** PR status). It may be extremely difficult for some
without PR Card...

--

../..

Andrew Miller Immigration Consultant Vancouver, British Columbia email:
millercicanada.com (delete REMOVE and INVALID from the above address before
sending email)
________________________________

"Leisure" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
    > Just wondering...
    >
    > Will it be a problem going back to Canada being a national of a Country included in
    > the visa waiver program?
    >
    > I mean, you can always "board" a commercial aircraft, but will Canadian
    > customs/immigration officers enforce the use of the PR at the port of entry?
    >
    >
    >
    > --

Andrew Miller

It was on the burner for quite some time and got a real boost after 9/11 - looks like
it will be done rather soon now...

--

../..

Andrew Miller Immigration Consultant Vancouver, British Columbia email:
millercicanada.com (delete REMOVE and INVALID from the above address before
sending email)
________________________________

"Jagzeur" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
    > From Shusterman.com
    >
    > Visa Exemption for Commonwealth Residents of Canada According to Antoinette
    > Marwitz, the new U.S. Consul General in Toronto, the State Department is planning
    > to change its regulations at 22 CFR 41.2(b) to require "aliens resident in
    > Canada.having a common nationality with nationals of Canada" to obtain nonimmigrant
    > visas to enter the United States. These individuals, who are citizens of British
    > Commonwealth countries, are currently exempt from the nonimmigrant visa
    > requirements, as well as from passport requirements if they are entering the U.S.
    > from a Western Hemisphere country. Presumably, the passport exemption also would be
    > eliminated, as would the exemption for such nationals resident in Bermuda.
    >
    > SALI <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:<[email protected]>...
    > > Mr. Miller,
    > >
    > > Although I do not argue your statements made time and again on the forums that
    > > "Americans rarely grant admission to newly landed Canadian PR who cannot
    > > demonstrate that they are well established in Canada", it still surprises me how
    > > people still manage to land in Canada while holding onto jobs on H-1B in US and
    > > also enter back to the US immediately after landing. Moreover it is so easy for
    > > many to get RRPs more than once while on H-1Bs in US.
    > >
    > > I hope you have gone thru my earlier posting on a different thread where I
    > > mentioned of a similar case of one of my married friends.
    > >
    > > If it is actually true that Americans do not care what status the individual is,
    > > in Canada and vice-versa, then what use is the linkage of immigrations databases
    > > between the two countries if violaters cannot be identified - whether in US or in
    > > Canada.

Poppy

I asked a legitimate question, and somehow I feel like I've been slighted.

Whilst it may be true that many citizens of Commonwealth countries obtain Canadian
PRs with the aim of getting into the US through the backdoor (and I think their
behavior should not be tolerated), there are many other Commonwealth citizens who do
want to come to Canada. Period.

FWIW, I am married to a Canadian citizen, and have been married for 4 years. I'm
Singaporean, and although being part of the Commonwealth, do NOT need to rely on
being a landed immigrant to enter the US. I can enter the US under the visa waiver
programme, and have entered the US on many occasions without a hitch under this
programme.

I asked the question because my husband's sister just gave birth, and we would like
to go say hello to our new niece. I do not expect any problems on the US border. What
I was wondering is whether I will have problems re-entering Canada after a short 3-4
days visit to the US.

"Andrew Miller" <millercitelus.net> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
    > Just ask many cab drivers, dishwashers (enter one of many other jogs here)
in
    > major US cities if they have H1 visas...
    >
    > "Backdoor" means that if someone in the Commonwealth country wants to get
to US
    > to work there and they cannot obtain US work visa (or any other US visa) legally
    > then they are obtaining Canadian PR status as Commonwealth
citizens who
    > are Canadian PR still don't need a visa to enter US.
    >
    > As for "staying with friends" - again, ask the same cab drivers who share
one
    > bedroom apartments with 5 or more other cab drivers (you may insert few
other
    > "professions" instead to replace "cab drivers").
    >
    > Why do you think for as long as this newsgroup exists almost every day we
see
    > questions related to visa free entry to US for Commonwealth citizens who
are
    > Canadian PR? Why we see so many questions like "I will be landing in
Canada as
    > a PR in few weeks and am a citizen of India (enter any other country here)
and
    > want to visit my relatives in US for few weeks after landing, will I have problems
    > on US border?"...
    >
    > --
    >
    > ../..
    >
    > Andrew Miller Immigration Consultant Vancouver, British Columbia email:
    > millercicanada.com (delete REMOVE and INVALID from the above address before
    > sending email)
    > ________________________________
    >
    >
    >
    > "Mahabhenki" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    > news:[email protected]...
    > > "Andrew Miller" <millercitelus.net> wrote in message
    > news:<[email protected]> ...
    > >
    > >
    > > How can Canadian PR be used as a backdoor to US . If someone does not have a
    > > valid US visa (H1, L1 etc) then I do not think it is worth going to USA and
    > > living and spending US $.. They have a very expensive medical and in these days
    > > you cannot think of saying with relatives /friends.
    > >
    > > So what do u exactly mean by "backdoor" to USA when now people can stay 3 out of
    > > 5 years outside canada.
    > >
    > > No flames please , just trying to understand ...
    > >
    > > Regards

Andrew Miller

If this is the case then you shouldn't have any problems.

Now you see what kind of answers one gets when asking a question fitting certain
profile and without providing details you just gave us now. If you would have told us
this in the first post you would have received the above answer...

--

../..

Andrew Miller Immigration Consultant Vancouver, British Columbia email:
millercicanada.com (delete REMOVE and INVALID from the above address before
sending email)
________________________________

"Poppy" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:[email protected]...
    > I asked a legitimate question, and somehow I feel like I've been slighted.
    >
    > Whilst it may be true that many citizens of Commonwealth countries obtain Canadian
    > PRs with the aim of getting into the US through the backdoor (and I think their
    > behavior should not be tolerated), there are many other Commonwealth citizens who
    > do want to come to Canada. Period.
    >
    > FWIW, I am married to a Canadian citizen, and have been married for 4 years. I'm
    > Singaporean, and although being part of the Commonwealth, do NOT need to rely on
    > being a landed immigrant to enter the US. I can enter the US under the visa waiver
    > programme, and have entered the US on many occasions without a hitch under this
    > programme.
    >
    > I asked the question because my husband's sister just gave birth, and we would like
    > to go say hello to our new niece. I do not expect any problems on the US border.
    > What I was wondering is whether I will have problems re-entering Canada after a
    > short 3-4 days visit to the US.
    >
    >
    >
    >
    > "Andrew Miller" <millercitelus.net> wrote in message
    > news:[email protected]...
    > > Just ask many cab drivers, dishwashers (enter one of many other jogs here)
    > in
    > > major US cities if they have H1 visas...
    > >
    > > "Backdoor" means that if someone in the Commonwealth country wants to get
    > to US
    > > to work there and they cannot obtain US work visa (or any other US visa) legally
    > > then they are obtaining Canadian PR status as Commonwealth
    > citizens who
    > > are Canadian PR still don't need a visa to enter US.
    > >
    > > As for "staying with friends" - again, ask the same cab drivers who share
    > one
    > > bedroom apartments with 5 or more other cab drivers (you may insert few
    > other
    > > "professions" instead to replace "cab drivers").
    > >
    > > Why do you think for as long as this newsgroup exists almost every day we
    > see
    > > questions related to visa free entry to US for Commonwealth citizens who
    > are
    > > Canadian PR? Why we see so many questions like "I will be landing in
    > Canada as
    > > a PR in few weeks and am a citizen of India (enter any other country here)
    > and
    > > want to visit my relatives in US for few weeks after landing, will I have
    > > problems on US border?"...
    > >
    > > --
    > >
    > > ../..
    > >
    > > Andrew Miller Immigration Consultant Vancouver, British Columbia email:
    > > millercicanada.com (delete REMOVE and INVALID from the above address before
    > > sending email)
    > > ________________________________
    > >
    > >
    > >
    > > "Mahabhenki" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    > > news:[email protected]...
    > > > "Andrew Miller" <millercitelus.net> wrote in message
    > > news:<[email protected]> ...
    > > >
    > > >
    > > > How can Canadian PR be used as a backdoor to US . If someone does not have a
    > > > valid US visa (H1, L1 etc) then I do not think it is worth going to USA and
    > > > living and spending US $.. They have a very expensive medical and in these days
    > > > you cannot think of saying with relatives /friends.
    > > >
    > > > So what do u exactly mean by "backdoor" to USA when now people can stay 3 out
    > > > of 5 years outside canada.
    > > >
    > > > No flames please , just trying to understand ...
    > > >
    > > > Regards
    > >
    >

Poppy

Thanks for the info Jim. That was constructive.

Cheers.

"James Metcalfe" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:[email protected]...
    > You are not precluded from traveling out of Canada. the problem will be in
    > returning to Canada without a PR card. It remains to be seen how long it
wil
    > take to issue PR cards but I understand CIC has promised fast turn around time,
    > whatever that means.
    >
    >
    > Jim metcalfe
    >
    >
    >
    >
    >
    >
    > "Poppy" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:[email protected]...
    > > So that means when I land from this point on, I will not be able to
leave
    > > Canada until I get my PR card in the mail?
    > >
    > > I'm asking this because I have some relatives in the States whom I would like to
    > > visit after I land in Canada.
    > >
    > > Does anyone know how long it will take between landing and getting the
PR
    > > card in the mail?
    > >
    > >
    > > "Andrew Miller" <millercitelus.net> wrote in message
    > > news:[email protected]...
    > > > P.S. #2
    > > >
    > > > Just to clear some confusion one emailer already indicated - of course
    > > they
    > > > will be able to land ("facilitate their initial journey to Canada")
with
    > > their
    > > > counterfoil immigration visas, but after landing they will need a PR
    > Card
    > > to
    > > > travel.
    > > >
    > > > --
    > > >
    > > > ../..
    > > >
    > > > Andrew Miller Immigration Consultant Vancouver, British Columbia email:
    > > > millercicanada.com (delete REMOVE and INVALID from the above address before
    > > > sending email)
    > > > ________________________________
    > > >
    > > >
    > > >
    > > > "Andrew Miller" <millercitelus.net> wrote in message
    > > > news:[email protected]...
    > > > > Those applicants who are eagerly waiting for their visas should read
    > the
    > > > quote
    > > > > below and plan accordingly as they won't be able to travel without
PR
    > > Card.
    > > > >
    > > > > Immigration Manual states the following:
    > > > >

    > > > > With implementation of the PR Card, issuance of the IMM 1000 will be
    > > > > discontinued.
    > > > >
    > > > > Effective 28 June 2002 clients selected for immigration overseas
will
    > be
    > > > issued
    > > > > a counterfoil visa to facilitate their initial journey to Canada.
    > > > >
    > > > > A new Confirmation of Permanent Residence document (CPR) (IMM 5292)
    > will
    > > also
    > > > > be issued. This document will be printed on non-secure stock and
will
    > > contain
    > > > > the same data elements as the IMM 1000, with the addition of the
    > > holder's
    > > > > height, eye colour and photograph.
    > > > >
    > > > > The CPR will be verified by an officer and signed by the client upon
    > > being
    > > > > granted permanent residence. Once validated, this document will be
    > > > microfilmed,
    > > > > for CIC's archival records, and the photograph and signature will be
    > > > digitally
    > > > > recorded for use in issuing the PR Card.
    > > > >
    > > > > Note: ** The client will retain one copy of this form for
information
    > > > purposes,
    > > > > but the CPR will not be valid for travel purposes.**
    > > > >
    > > > > Permanent residents in possession of an IMM 1000 may continue using
    > this
    > > form
    > > > > as a historical proof of having been granted permanent resident
status
    > > within
    > > > > Canada, but the PR Card will be required to board commercial
carriers
    > > abroad
    > > > > after 31 December 2003.

    > > > >
    > > > > --
    > > > >
    > > > > ../..
    > > > >
    > > > > Andrew Miller Immigration Consultant Vancouver, British Columbia email:
    > > > > millercicanada.com (delete REMOVE and INVALID from the above address before
    > > > > sending email)
    > > > > ________________________________
    > > > >
    > > > >
    > > > >
    > > > >
    > > > >
    > > > >
    > > > >
    > > >
    > > >
    > >
    >

Stephen C. Gall

    > Visa Exemption for Commonwealth Residents of Canada According to Antoinette
    > Marwitz, the new U.S. Consul General in Toronto, the State Department is planning
    > to change its regulations at 22 CFR 41.2(b) to require "aliens resident in
    > Canada.having a common nationality with nationals of Canada" to obtain nonimmigrant
    > visas to enter the United States. These individuals, who are citizens of British
    > Commonwealth countries, are currently exempt from the nonimmigrant visa
    > requirements, as well as from passport requirements if they are entering the U.S.
    > from a Western Hemisphere country. Presumably, the passport exemption also would be
    > eliminated, as would the exemption for such nationals resident in Bermuda.

It should be noted if this is implemented, that visitor visas will still not be
required by SOME Commonwealth citizens, because citizens of certain countries can
visit the US without a visa under the US visa waiver program. You do not have to be a
PR of Canada to use the visa waiver.

But note, the entry terms are different for a visa waiver entrant. Maximum entry is
90 days (if granted that much) and, for the most part, entry can't be extended. Also,
a visa waiver entrant must complete an I-94W form at the port of entry. Additionally,
if entering at a land border crossing, you have to pay an immigration processing fee,
to be issued your I-94W, and you are supposed to surrender your I-94W when leaving
the US (to Canadian officials). This is something that Commonwealth citizens residing
in Canada have not had to do.

Citizens of the countries listed below (some of which are Commonwealth countries) can
enter the US without a visa, ]under the visa waiver:

Andorra, Austria, Australia, Belgium, Brunei, Denmark, Finland, France, Germany,
Iceland, Ireland, Italy, Japan, Liechtenstein, Luxembourg, Monaco, The Netherlands,
New Zealand, Norway, Portugal, San Marino, Singapore, Slovenia, Spain, Sweden,
Switzerland, the United Kingdom and Uruguay.

Stephen Gallagher

Ashley Watson

"Andrew Miller" <millercitelus.net> wrote in message
news:<[email protected]> ...
    > It was on the burner for quite some time and got a real boost after 9/11 - looks
    > like it will be done rather soon now...
    >

Does, anyone know if the visa free entry for Commonwealth citizens who are PR of
Canada to the USA ends, whether it will also apply to citizens who are currently on
the US Visa waiver program, such as UK, Australia, and NZ citizens?

Ashley Watson

Jaj

It won't affect citizens of visa-waiver countries, as long as they don't abolish the
visa-waiver as well.

Jeremy

    >On 12 Jul 2002 06:31:30 -0700, [email protected] (Ashley Watson) wrote:
    >"Andrew Miller" <millercitelus.net> wrote in message
    >news:<[email protected] >...
    >> It was on the burner for quite some time and got a real boost after 9/11 - looks
    >> like it will be done rather soon now...
    >>
    >
    >Does, anyone know if the visa free entry for Commonwealth citizens who are PR of
    >Canada to the USA ends, whether it will also apply to citizens who are currently on
    >the US Visa waiver program, such as UK, Australia, and NZ citizens?
    >
    >Ashley Watson

Alex Oren

On Thu, 11 Jul 2002 21:52:56 GMT, Andrew Miller wrote in
<[email protected]>:

    > As I was stating all the time - many issues cannot be for sure answered just on the
    > basis of the IRPA and it's Regulations text. Now we are slowly getting access to
    > Immigration Manual and more things should be clearer. We still don't have a final
    > and full version of Manual, all we have for now are just bits and pieces, but in
    > some matters it is enough to make a more informed opinion. It probably gonna take
    > couple months at best until all is published and Operational Memoranda will start
    > taking care of matters not clearly covered by IRPA, regulations and Manual.

Can mere mortals like myself get a hold of the manual? How? (Yes, I know, I lack the
knowledge and the training, but still...)

Best regards, Alex.

--
To email me, replace "myrealbox" with "alexoren". Sorry for the inconvenience. Blame
the spammers.