Slip-12-64

Does anyone know the Salary Range for IBM employees in Band 6 and Band 7? The
number is in US. I am not sure if Canada uses the same band system. When
applying for H1B in USA, one can read the range for his/her band.


Several extra Q.

1 The average canadian family income is 55K. How is life with this average in
Toronto?

2 How much does anyone here make now (excluding students and unemployed)

3 What is the salary average for IT jobs in good big companies in Toronto,
such as IBM, Nortel, or some finacial firms?

S B

"slip-12-64-187-50.mis.prserv.net@slip-12-64-187-50.mis.prserv.net"
wrote:
    >
    > Does anyone know the Salary Range for IBM employees in Band 6 and Band 7? The
    > number is in US. I am not sure if Canada uses the same band system. When
    > applying for H1B in USA, one can read the range for his/her band.
    >
    >
    > Several extra Q.
    >
    > 1 The average canadian family income is 55K. How is life with this average in
    > Toronto?

Miserable. You need at least 80K in Toronto unless you can purchase
your home outright.

    > 2 How much does anyone here make now (excluding students and unemployed)

One thing you'll learn about Canada is that salaries tend to be far more
private issues than most other countries.

    > 3 What is the salary average for IT jobs in good big companies in Toronto,
    > such as IBM, Nortel, or some finacial firms?

At what level? Entry level seems about $40-50K if you can get an entry
level job at the moment. They are *very* hard to find.

The Wizzard

    > Miserable. You need at least 80K in Toronto unless you can purchase
    > your home outright.
Depends where you live and how many are in your family and what you consider
"miserable". You can live perfectly happily with way less than that. In fact
our household income is just under $30K after tax. It's obviously not much
but it's only for two people, no kids etc. We manage to pay rent on a 2
bedroom apartment all inclusive. we have cable tv and internet and phone.
buy groceries every week. I commute to downtown Toronto every day for work
on the train and my wife works locally. In fact all that stuff we already
had on just my wife's salary before i even found a job a few weeks ago. So
all that you can get on say $15K a year. now it's double we could probably
buy a car but i think we might save for a downpayment on a house etc first.

Now obviously thats just basic stuff but it's perfectly acceptable and i
certainly would not describe ourselves as miserable. Now yes if we wanted t
live right in downtown Toronto instead of in a suburban town we'd have to
maybe double our rent, but i commute perfectly well to downtown Toronto
everyday anyway. Now if we were talking a family with a couple of kids then
sure you need even more money, but I think saying you would be miserable if
you did not earn more than $80K is a bit excessive. You might not get a 5
bedroom house, 2 cars a boat and a cottage but then you have time to work
towards those things. If you sit around as a new immigrant complaining you
can't get work that pays over $80K then i guess the whole starting a new
life thing is maybe a bit tougher. all i know is i would rather be now
working, all be it for a low wage, but in a decent company where i know
there is a lot of room for salary increases and job progression, rather than
sittin gat home with no job refusing to take anything below X$ cos id be
miserable. I'd kill for an $80K salary so i could buy a fancy house and do
different things but i'm certainly not miserable and have food, place to
live and internet and cable and all that jazz. etc.

Drew

Crispin Glover

you'll be very lucky if you get a job..
wrote in
message news:[email protected]...
    > Does anyone know the Salary Range for IBM employees in Band 6 and Band 7?
The
    > number is in US. I am not sure if Canada uses the same band system. When
    > applying for H1B in USA, one can read the range for his/her band.
    > Several extra Q.
    > 1 The average canadian family income is 55K. How is life with this average
in
    > Toronto?
    > 2 How much does anyone here make now (excluding students and unemployed)
    > 3 What is the salary average for IT jobs in good big companies in Toronto,
    > such as IBM, Nortel, or some finacial firms?

Slip-12-64

    > > 2 How much does anyone here make now (excluding students and unemployed)
    >
    > One thing you'll learn about Canada is that salaries tend to be far more
    > private issues than most other countries.
    >

I am not asking for your name/address, but I am really interested in
personal income level, because the number I see is per family not per
person.

S B

"slip-12-64-187-50.mis.prserv.net@slip-12-64-187-50.mis.prserv.net"
wrote:
    >
    > > > 2 How much does anyone here make now (excluding students and unemployed)
    > >
    > > One thing you'll learn about Canada is that salaries tend to be far more
    > > private issues than most other countries.
    > >
    >
    > I am not asking for your name/address, but I am really interested in
    > personal income level, because the number I see is per family not per
    > person.

I realize that, but the lack of salary knowledge seems to be employer
related. I noticed the lack of info when I came back to Canada in '81.
I was under strict orders to tell no-one of my salary.

I'd offer mine but it is kind of meaningless because I work for a
foreign company and it's a conversion so it in no way reflects the
Canadian labour market.

While Wizard is doing OK on $30K per year or so in Toronto, a family
would definitely need a lot more. A lot also depends on your style of
living ... how often you eat out, cars etc. I meant that your standard
n. american 2.n children family would definitely have some problems
living in the Toronto area on that kind of family income, especially if
you have teens.

Slip-12-64-187-50.Mis.Prserv.Net@Slip-12-64-187-50

I met a homeless the other day in Toronto and he asked me if I have a
job then I said no, then he asked if I got any luck with welfare. I am
wondering if it is the same as unemployment insurance. I was an
indepentant PR, so I guess I can apply for government assistance.

I have plenty money in bank, that kept me going for a long time. I
spent 1K at most per month by myself. Most time, only 600-700. 300 for
room. 200 for food and 100 for fun. I am not sure how much the
government will give me. Do I have to be homeless to be qualified for
assistance?


"Crispin Glover" wrote in message news:...
    > you'll be very lucky if you get a job..
    > wrote in
    > message news:[email protected]...
    > > Does anyone know the Salary Range for IBM employees in Band 6 and Band 7?
    > The
    > > number is in US. I am not sure if Canada uses the same band system. When
    > > applying for H1B in USA, one can read the range for his/her band.
    > >
    > >
    > > Several extra Q.
    > >
    > > 1 The average canadian family income is 55K. How is life with this average
    > in
    > > Toronto?
    > >
    > > 2 How much does anyone here make now (excluding students and unemployed)
    > >
    > > 3 What is the salary average for IT jobs in good big companies in Toronto,
    > > such as IBM, Nortel, or some finacial firms?

Observer

Already looking for handout?

wrote in
message news:[email protected]...
    > I met a homeless the other day in Toronto and he asked me if I have a
    > job then I said no, then he asked if I got any luck with welfare. I am
    > wondering if it is the same as unemployment insurance. I was an
    > indepentant PR, so I guess I can apply for government assistance.
    > I have plenty money in bank, that kept me going for a long time. I
    > spent 1K at most per month by myself. Most time, only 600-700. 300 for
    > room. 200 for food and 100 for fun. I am not sure how much the
    > government will give me. Do I have to be homeless to be qualified for
    > assistance?
    > "Crispin Glover" wrote in message
news:...
    > > you'll be very lucky if you get a job..
    > >
wrote in
    > > message news:[email protected]...
    > > > Does anyone know the Salary Range for IBM employees in Band 6 and Band
7?
    > > The
    > > > number is in US. I am not sure if Canada uses the same band system.
When
    > > > applying for H1B in USA, one can read the range for his/her band.
    > > >
    > > >
    > > > Several extra Q.
    > > >
    > > > 1 The average canadian family income is 55K. How is life with this
average
    > > in
    > > > Toronto?
    > > >
    > > > 2 How much does anyone here make now (excluding students and
unemployed)
    > > >
    > > > 3 What is the salary average for IT jobs in good big companies in
Toronto,
    > > > such as IBM, Nortel, or some finacial firms?

Atul Patel

Welcome to Canada!
wrote in
message news:[email protected]...
    > I met a homeless the other day in Toronto and he asked me if I have a
    > job then I said no, then he asked if I got any luck with welfare. I am
    > wondering if it is the same as unemployment insurance. I was an
    > indepentant PR, so I guess I can apply for government assistance.
    > I have plenty money in bank, that kept me going for a long time. I
    > spent 1K at most per month by myself. Most time, only 600-700. 300 for
    > room. 200 for food and 100 for fun. I am not sure how much the
    > government will give me. Do I have to be homeless to be qualified for
    > assistance?
    > "Crispin Glover" wrote in message
news:...
    > > you'll be very lucky if you get a job..
    > >
wrote in
    > > message news:[email protected]...
    > > > Does anyone know the Salary Range for IBM employees in Band 6 and Band
7?
    > > The
    > > > number is in US. I am not sure if Canada uses the same band system.
When
    > > > applying for H1B in USA, one can read the range for his/her band.
    > > >
    > > >
    > > > Several extra Q.
    > > >
    > > > 1 The average canadian family income is 55K. How is life with this
average
    > > in
    > > > Toronto?
    > > >
    > > > 2 How much does anyone here make now (excluding students and
unemployed)
    > > >
    > > > 3 What is the salary average for IT jobs in good big companies in
Toronto,
    > > > such as IBM, Nortel, or some finacial firms?

Bodza Bodza

library poster: wrote in message
    > > > 2 How much does anyone here make now (excluding students and unemployed)

OK: I was an I.T. headhunter for two years between 1994 to 1996 so
it's a bit out of date.

Permanent: 0-1 years experience $25-$30K
2-5 years experience $30-$50K
5 years+ experience $50-$70K

At that time $70K was "a lot of money" to most Canadians. Most
Canadians even now don't earn that kind of salary.

Before the bust (i.e. up to 2001) permanent I.T. jobs for 5 years+
experience were running at up to $120K but now they seem to have sunk
down to $70-$80K but you will be lucky to find one. Also bear in mind
that a new immigrant won't be able to command these kinds of salaries
even in the good times. Being a new immigrant costs you up to 50% of
your salary in the first couple of years (e.g. if you have 10 years
experience you *should* be making $70-$80K right? Well in fact, you'll
probably only be able to get $35-$40K your first year and *maybe* $50K
in your second year.) Once you are proven and have sufficient Canadian
experience you compete with the Canadians, but it depends largely on
your English ability at that point. If English is not your first
language. It is well worth taking another English course even you
think your English is good and I would practise on trying to lose a
foreign accent which will make you hard to understand.

Of the people I know I shall name my best estimates for the family
salaries and in my opinion how they are doing: (You will note I know a
lot of latinos)

Summary: Most people are doing OK, but some are struggling. It depends
on personal circumstances. Also people who have a few years of
experience will probably be earning at least $40K. Most of the people
I know are I.T. people partly because I met a lot of them while I was
an I.T. headhunter and partly because in recent years, that was the
easiest skillset to get a visa in Canada.
Also, I don't know many people who are struggling as close personal
friends but I can tell you there are significant numbers of people who
don't fit into the following categories. Most of the people I know
live out in the suburbs (i.e. those who have a bit of cash and
education). Also, bear in mind these are for people who are already
"stable".

1. Us 1 Canadian & 1 Immigrant 1 income $80K 2 small kids. Doing OK. 1
van, 2 bedroom apartment mississauga. Programmer/Analyst
2. 1 Canadian, 1 Brit 1 Income $80K 2 small kids. Doing OK. 1 car, 4
bedroom house whitby. Unix Admin.
3. 2 Canadians, 2 Incomes $80K 3 small kids. Struggling. 1 van, 3
bedroom house Etobicoke. 1 Teacher, 1 Salesperson.
4. 1 Canadian, 1 Brit 2 Incomes $80K 2 small kids. Struggling. No car,
3 bedroom house, Beaches, Toronto. 2 Office workers at Banks.
5. 2 Mexicans, 2 Incomes, $140K 1 small kids. Doing well. 1 car, 3
bedroom house, Mississauga. 2 Programmer/Analysts.
6. 2 Mexicans, 1 Income, $50K 2 small kids. Struggling. 1 car, 2
bedroom apartment, downtown. 1 Programmer/Analyst
7. 2 Mexicans, 1 Income $60K 1 kid. Doing OK. 1 car, 2 bedroom
apartment, downtown. 1 Programmer/Analyst
8. 1 Canadian, 1 Ecuador 1 Income $75K 2 small kids. Doing OK. 1 van,
2 bedroom apartment downtown. 1 Programmer/Analyst
9. 2 Canadians, 2 Income, $130K 1 kids. Doing OK. 2 Cars, 3 bedroom
house, Brampton 1 Programmer/Analyst 1 Accountant
10. 2 Canadians, 2 Incomes $100K 1 small kid. Doing OK. 1 Car, 3
bedroom house,
Mississauga 1 Programmer/Analyst 1 Graphic Designer
11. 2 Canadians, 1 Income $150K 1 small kid. Doing well. 2 cars, 3
bedroom house, Mississauga. 1 Salesperson
12. 2 Canadians, 2 Incomes $80K no kids. Doing OK. 2 cars, 2 bedroom
apartment,
Hamilton. 1 Programmer/Analyst 1 Bank Teller
13. 2 Canadians, 2 Incomes $90K 2 kids. Doing OK. 2 cars, 3 bedroom
house, Etobicoke. 1 Salesperson, 1 Accountant.