Claren

Hi, 2 parts to this question so please bear with me!!
Me, my wife and 1 yr old son are looking to emigrate to Canada.
I have 6 years experience as a maintenance supervisor but was made redundant 2 years ago. The company I was employed with have gone bust and no longer exist. Since I had no formal qualifications I decided to go to college and do a plumbing NVQ, I have my level 2 and am now on my level 3 and will finish July(ish) 2011.

As a maintenance supervisor I looked after 12 sites throughout the Uk doing emergency and pre planned work, this could be anything from painting,carpentry, plumbing, basic electrics, building works etc. Basically anything that needed doing on site I would arrange to get done ,or do it myself if on site.

My questions are;
Can I use my experience as Maintenance supervisor towards my work experience? I would prefer to apply as a plumber and most of my work involved plumbing even though I was responsible for all maintenance.
If not would this experience cover me to apply in category 7216 "contractors and supervisors mechanical trades"

As I previously said the company I worked for no longer exist, however I have pay slips and can get a reference from my previous manager to say what I did and for how long, would this suffice as evidence of work experience?

No doubt this will be a long and weary road we have decided to travel and hopefully this forum will give us hope

kind regards

christmasoompa

Hi there, and welcome to the forum.

I don't think that you would be eligible under the Plumbers NOC code if it wasn't your whole job. Remember that you'd have to prove you've done at least half of the duties listed and meet the other eligibility criteria, and unless you were doing those duties all the time you wouldn't come under 7251.

7216 doesn't cover plumbing or maintenance. It covers supervisors of people who repair aircraft/locomotives etc. Have you actually looked at the duties etc under these NOC codes? It could be that you are eligible under 7216 but from what you've said, I think it would be a stretch and think you'd struggle to prove the duties.

Also, you say you had 'no formal qualification' prior to starting your NVQ, so are you sure you'd have enough points even if you did come under one of the NOC codes? Remember you can't count anything you haven't finished, so couldn't use your NVQ for education points.

If you do come under one of the NOC codes and have enough points, then don't worry about this. You can print out the Companies House records to show the company doesn't exist anymore, and provide whatever else you can get - payslips/employment contract/reference etc will be fine.

HTH, good luck.

Claren

Thanks for that, now i,ve looked closer it is a bit clearer, on first looking 7216 looked as though it included maintenance supervisors but now having looked at all the joblist it is clear it is mechanic trades.

My job was probably 75-80% plumbing duties (hence going to college to get formal quals) but my job title was maintenance operative , then supervisor. That way if we had no plumbing jobs or anything else needed doing we couldnt say no as we were not only plumbers (cheap way of getting multi trades)
There were chippies and sparks with quals and years of experience all under the umbrella of "maintenance operatives" so if there was no work for them they could get them painting or whatever!!!
As I said my ex-manager could verify all of this, but will it be accepted??

As for not being able to put my quals down and claim points for education, I wouldnt apply until I have finished my course anyway.

lots and lots of reading to do on here for us I think

Claren

Hi
Has anyone else had the situation that I find myself in?
That you have experience as one thing but your job title doesnt state what you actually are, its a very vague job title however I would have considered myself as a plumber who did other jobs when the plumbing was quiet.
I would be interested to hear from others who have applied in this circumstance and the response they received.

thanks

cheeky_monkey

My point would be that you were not empolyed as a plumber but a maintainence supervisor. So it would be impossible to prove that most of your duties were plumbing..also you state that you took your NVQ after being made redundant, so at the time your were not a qualified plumber either so the question would be how could you class yourself as a plumber when you were neither employed as one nor qualified as one?

Claren

Hi
Obviously I havent been clear enough, I was employed as a maintenance plumber, 75-80% of my work was plumbing. To get round the " I cant do that I'm a plumber (carpenter/electrician etc) argument the company employed everyone as a "Maintenance operative"
Along with 2 other guys we looked after all the plumbing throughout all 12 branches and we also did other work as and when needed.
i.e if a carpenter was fitting doors and we had finished all plumbing tasks we would then help fit the doors, I hope this is clearer.
So far as education, you do not need formal quals to carry out most plumbing jobs in the Uk, as such I would say I was time served. When I was made redundant rather than sit about doing nothing I decided to go to college and get formal quals. Having had the experience I passed all my exams first time with an average above 95%, only because I had the previous experience.

Looking at the noc code for plumbers, I was doing all of the tasks and have over 5 years of work experience as per the noc website;

Completion of a four- to five-year apprenticeship program
or
A combination of over five years of work experience in the trade and some high school, college or industry courses in plumbing is usually required to be eligible for trade certification.

So far as Maintenance supervisor, basically I was then in charge of arranging who did what and who went where. I was still doing all of my original job just deciding what and when etc. and looking after costings and materials.

Any more feedback, experience like this would be appreciated

witchileiz

Hi there - just to put in my 2p's worth: I think you stand a very good chance in applying as a Plumber - as long as your previous boss will testify to this and list your duties in your reference to echo the NOC descriptions (at least half).

I was teaching before taking my PGCE last year - and I am certainly counting that experience, as teaching doesn not require the teaching qualification prior to working in the profession either. I see your situation as similar - you are just adding the official qualification to something you have already done.

Many of us have such crazy job titles that don't truly reflect what we actually do....

As long as you can get your previous employer to confirm your duties, then I would go ahead and apply after you finish your studies (good luck BTW).

Claren

Thanks for all the feedback guys
I wasnt really asking if I could call myself a plumber, as with past experience and my new quals I do consider myself to be a plumber, I was really trying to find out if, when I do eventually apply to CIC whether they would accept a reference off my ex manager and my payslips as proof that the job I was doing was acceptable. As I said before, the company has now gone and the only proof I can provide is a reference and my payslips.
By the time I apply I will have done another year as a plumber ( definitely my job title now!!!!) but I dont want to apply saying I have only 1 year experience when in reality I have over 7, nearly 8 years.
I think in my original post I was a bit vague in what I was asking, sorry for that

chanceUK

probably no one will be able to tell you other than the immigration officer assessing your case.

One problem is that you never know when the list of wanted occupations is going to change next. If you apply and are refused because your proof that you have done a job that is on the list isnt good enough then you will get a refund of your application fee (i did). If you are rejected a bit later on in the process because you dont have sufficient points, you wont get a refund.

Claren

Tanks for that Chanceuk

Can I ask what evidence you supplied and did they say why they thought you didnt have the experience required?

This is my worry, that I apply as a plumber, supply a reference and payslips and they say "sorry that isnt enough evidence"
As the company has now gone I dont see what other evidence I can supply ( its not like they can ring them and ask!!!)

Has anyone been in this situation before and supplied a reference and it was okay!!!!!

Any help/advice greatly received

christmasoompa

Put simply, the more evidence you can supply the better. If the company has gone bust then it will be tricker, but things like job offer letter, employment contract, and a print out from the Companies House website to prove that they company is now defunct will all help, alongside your references and payslips.

I'd say that in your case you'll need more than one reference (after all, you could just be asking a mate to write it for you - they may not be prepared to accept one ref from a private individual), and you should also supply proof that he actually worked for the company so his reference carries more weight.

All this is of course assuming that plumbers will be on the revised list of eligible occupations when you apply later this year - you may want to consider a 'Plan B' in case they are not.

chanceUK

i applied as a college instructor (which has since been removed from the list of wanted occupations). It had a vague list of NOC duties and many people were refused under this category. My job fulfilled the vast majority of duties and I had evidence to back it up (job description, reference, employment contract). I even had a very strongly worded letter of support from my local MP in canada. However, the job I did also included a range of other job duties and perhaps they thought that teaching was not the main purpose that I was employed for. Who knows? The refusal letter is a standard letter and doesnt specify the reason, just that they werent satisfied that you fulfilled their criteria for the NOC code. Dont let that put you off though. Plenty of other people succeeded with much less evidence than me with other jobs on the list. you can only provide as much evidence as possible and let them decide. Better to apply sooner rather than later though in case your job gets taken off the list.

Claren

Thanks guys

I suppose then its get as much evidence as I can and hope that the person looking at the application accepts whats there. I think I may be able to get another reference from a co-worker (do you think this would suffice?)
As for evidence that I, and the person(s) supplying references did work for the company, any ideas???????

I dont want to apply now as I still have 6 months left on my course and want to finish that before I even think about applying.Just have to hope that Plumber is still on the list (how often does it get changed??) I would also like to take some form of Canadian course ( if such course exists) just to close the gaps between how we work and how Canada works.
Anyone done such a course and can advise on duration/cost/any info please

christmasoompa

As I said above, you need things like employment contract, job offer letter, payslips etc - these are normally sent with a FSW application anyway, but are particularly crucial in your case without the company still in existence. The payslips etc will also provide the proof you worked for the company.

Not sure that another reference from a private individual will help (again, it could just be a mate writing it for you) but it won't harm either, so include it together with everything else.

Do bear in mind that if you are rejected you'll lose your application fees, so make sure you present as watertight a case as possible. The list is expected to change again in late June, so unless you need the extra points that the apprenticeship will provide it may be better to apply before then just in case.

And re: the course, have you looked in to the Red Seal? I believe that what you need to work as a plumber in Canada, but have a search of the forum and Wiki for more info.