DCG

Hi,

I have had my PR card now for about 18 months, I know that it is valid for 5 years, but also that you have to spend 2 years out of every 5 in Canada to maintain it.

Does this mean that after holding it for 3 years I need to be in Canada or I will lose it after 5? e.g. if I found a job & went there after holding it for 4 years, would they renew it when it came to 5 years?

I did have a position to go to, however the recession has claimed that solid offer & since it has also claimed a couple that got near to the offer stage. Therefore, I am concerned about the time constraints: it's expensive & risky just to pack up in the UK when I have mortgage & a family to fund but conversely it is very difficult to find something remotely.

christmasoompa

Yes, you are quite correct. If you don't keep up your residency you will lose PR. Have a read of this for more info..............http://britishexpats.com/wiki/Reside...gations-Canada

And it may also be worth you reading the Job Hunting section of the Wiki (on blue bar at top of page).

Good luck.

DCG

Thanks for the response, but what about if after 3 years 6 months I found a job there & moved. At the 5 year point I am in a job in Canada working but only having been present for 18 months not 2 years.

Would I have to leave the job & Canada?

cornmatthew

We get this a lot. Perhaps there should be a sticky.

For form's sake: this post is not legal advice. Rely on it at your own risk.

PR does not expire. Only the PR card does. If you are in Canada and your PR card expires, you are still a PR. You do not have to leave Canada.

But... the residency obligation is separate from the PR card. You risk losing your PR status if you spend too much time outside Canada -- even if your PR card is still current.

Canadian officials will check that you've met the residency obligation whenever you enter the country, as well as when you apply to renew your PR card.

To answer your specific questions:

When you return to Canada after that long absence, an officer will very likely take steps to remove your PR status. They won't wait until your PR card expires. You'll have an opportunity to explain why you should keep PR, but you'll need a good 'humanitarian and compassionate' reason. Simply having a job to go to likely won't be enough.

If you're allowed back into Canada as a PR, you do not automatically lose that status simply because your card expires. At that point, you'll be a PR who happens not to have a valid PR card.

You would be well advised to wait until you have clocked up two years in Canada before applying for a new card, though.

Aviator

If you lie or make misleading statements about your residency you could be removed from Canada at anytime in the future, 1 year or 30 years down the road. Once you have failed to meet the residency requirements 2/5 your PR is no longer valid. It does not matter whether you have held PR for 4 years or 30 years, the same rule applies. Arriving in Canada within the validity period to reside and waiting another 5 years does not fix the problem of failing to meet the residency obligation before that time. When applying for citizenship, you have to make a declaration that you have met residency requirements. Citizenship does not mean you are free and clear either, this can also be canceled. I would not fancy looking over my shoulder everyday hoping I was not going to get kicked out.

It can be a lot more expensive coming to Canada for a few years, hoping to get away with it and then getting sent back after getting established in the country because of a few months.

cornmatthew

This post is not legal advice. Rely on it at your own risk.

Quite right.
...but this bit is not.

PR remains in force right up until the point a final determination is made that it's not. See section 46(b) of the Immigration and Refugee Protection Act.

The government is only allowed to go back five years (or to the point of landing if more recent) to determine whether or not the residency obligation is met. See section 28(b)(i) or 28(b)(ii), as applicable.

Absent any fraud, residing in Canada and waiting does appear to have the effect of repairing any breach of the residency obligation. It might be a loophole, but it's the law.

www.demexicoacanada.ca/mactavish_nov2005.pdf makes for interesting bedtime reading.

The OP's problem will be getting back into the country in the first place, not with what happens afterwards. It would be better to come back sooner and avoid the issue entirely.

I agree absolutely with your conclusion, but not with how you got there.

DCG

Wow - this is more complex than I thought. Thanks to everyone for their responses.

Question: If my PR card is a little over 3 years old, will I have trouble entering Canada on it then?

If so, why not just enter on my British passport as a holidaymaker rather than even show the PR card. Once in Canada with a stil valid PR card, it keeps it legal, but I would have to clock up 2 years before leaving.

I have no intention of making false declerations etc., & hopefully this argument is academic as I hope another job opens up. The real delay is purely due to the downturn & how long it lasts.

iaink

No Because you are NOT a visitor, you are a PR, so that would be a false declaration...

Its possible that scanning you passport on entry will show you up to be a PR too.

cornmatthew

Maybe, maybe not. How long have you been out of the country? How do you plan to answer that question if asked? What will you put on the customs form under 'date left Canada'?

Again, how will you complete the customs form? What will you say when you're asked the purpose of your trip and how long you'll stay?

What do you understand by the term 'false declaration'?

DCG

Dear All - thanks for clarifying this, I think I understand the situation now, but it is more complex than it initially seemed.

I wouldn't make a false decleration, so I just hope to find something before then, but it is worth understanding the 'limit' of the time frame involved.

I think the only grey area is if Canadian border guard would let me in after my PR card gets to being 3 years old.

I had my medical in November '07, officially landed in September '08, but my PR card goes to October '13. Therefore I have until October '11 to find a job there!

PMM

Hi

No, You "Landed" in 09/08 so you have have to have 2 years residency between 09/08 and 09/13.

Rob_999

To look at it simply:

From the date you landed (XX Sept 2008) through XX Sept 2013 you must be physically present in Canada for at least 730 days.

After XX Sept 2013 you must continue to meet residence requirements on a rolling 5 year basis.

If it become impossible for you to do this (e.g. you are out of the country for 3 years) you risk loosing PR at entry. As a returning PR the first question you'll be asked is when were you last in Canada.... at that point its game over.

KS2008

It strikes me that a lot of people seem to fixate on their PR cards and when they expire when, at the end of the day, they are really only little pieces of plastic and what they really, really ought to be focused on is their PR status.

It's perfectly possible (and probably not at all uncommon) for someone to maintain their status but have an expired card, especially if they never leave the country. Likewise, someone can have a card that hasn't reached its expiry date but their PR status is in doubt because they no longer meet the residency requirements.

DCG

Thanks All - situation clear. Just need to find a job.

Previously, got PR card, got Job in Canada, lost job in UK (no problem - I was going to hand my notice in anyway).

Then, lost job in Canada.

Now I do have a job in the UK & it is reasonable, but I have NO confidence in engineering in the UK any more long-term.

Any views on Engineering Industry in Canada pls.

bewillow

I would suggest that if you are serious about moving to Canada, it is better to invest your time and talents in finding a replacement job in Canada. That is where your future seems to be headed...