SchnookoLoly

Brilliant - I wasn't searching right. Thank you! I can't edit my post above anymore... argh.

Siouxie

Which bit do you want edited - let me know and I can do it for you

SchnookoLoly

Basically was just going to add in something referencing that provision but my head is completely in circles with this now and I'm grumpy with OP's employer for being a d-bag. :P If you can work out the best part to add it in with your more clear head then go for it!

tatters86

Not have much luck with this at all, I really appreciate the help and advice.

My company's senior HR person who deals with employee immigration for the company has step in and told me to follow the immigration lawyers instructions, who have apparently told them contact was made with immigration canada and regulations were checked which say l have implied status. Even thought l have asked for proof of this to counter what is detailed in Immigration and Refugee Protection Regulations etc l,m basically being told to shut up and step in line.

Because I'm just a controls technician and they are lawyers in a large immigration legal firm who my company as been using for years in both Canada and the States. so of course they are going to take there word over mine.



I cant belive how stressful this is, both me and my girl friend have put up with my bloody job for 8 months now working 300km away from home at my own expense during the week, so that l could stay in Canada with her and her family who are Canadian.

What options do l have now once l stop working? would l have to find another company to provide a LMO? or Could l apply for PR under the CEC as l have worked over 6 months in Saskatchewan? There were also plans for us to get married next summer is it worth us bring it forward by a year so she can sponser me?


Thanks,

SchnookoLoly

This is awful, I'm really sorry to hear this. I really wish CIC would be so much more clear on it.

Are you going to leave the job? If you want to remain in Canada I would seriously NOT continue working... if you get found out you'll be completely shot.

How long have you and your girlfriend been living together? Once you've been living together for a year you qualify as common-law partners and she can sponsor you (takes 6-7 months), at which point you'll have full PR which means right to live and work. Alternatively, you can apply as soon as you get married. I don't know enough about CEC, so can't advise there, but you could try getting someone else to get your an LMO, though it may prove difficult.

Post back with questions - I wish you all the best, I'm really sorry your company hasn't listened on what's been said in this thread, though if their immigration lawyer is saying it's fine, and he's saying he's spoken to CIC's misinformation (!) line, then I can see why the employers are saying to zip it and just work, but in the end you are responsible for your own backside, so I'm glad to see you are playing it safe.

Good luck

JonboyE

I can see it from the employer's point of view. They have a legal firm that they have dealt with for years and have complete confidence in. However, the OP will not follow their advice and prefers to believe unqualified, anonymous people giving free advice on an internet site. If the OP carries on there is bound to be a point when his employer thinks he is more trouble than he is worth.

I wonder if following legal advice is a defence? If the lawyers give their opinion in writing can the OP use this to avoid any adverse consequences if he is found to be working illegally?

Zoe Bell

I really feel for the OP, you are in an impossible position.
JonBoy is correct in that your employers probably feel that they should be trusting the advice of their legal people as opposed to us .
I suspect though that somewhere the correct questions aren't being asked and the correct information isn't being passed on.

Unless you can get the lawyers to pin down in writing that they understand theta you are on an non extendable visa and are willing to take on the responsibility for any advice they give you.... then you shouldn't work.

you shouldn't work anyway.you know that you can't and you risk all kinds of consequences if you get caught. Your company can just shrug their shoulders and walk away.

SchnookoLoly

The lawyers have basically said the handbook is wrong, and they have not been able to produce anything that conclusively says that implied status will apply (because it does not).

The thing with getting it in writing is that unless it's in writing from CIC, not from the lawyers, the OP is ultimately on the line. The lawyer can act on behalf of the applicant, but ultimately the applicant is responsible.

OP - basically it will come down to you deciding how much you want to be in Canada. If you are okay to risk getting deported if you are caught working, then keep on working. But if you are happy to walk away from this job and try to find another one in order to stay legal in Canada, then I would suggest doing that.

I would also suggest reporting the lawyers to the ICCRC for giving you bad information.

Siouxie

If you could get Provincial Nomination - presuming your job is skilled and/or based on the fact you have worked for 6 months, you would be able to get a TWP once you got Nomination approval with no LMO requirement.

There are two streams that you may qualify for - one with job offer (the no-job offer has reached the cap) and one with 6 months working in Saskatchewan.

http://www.saskimmigrationcanada.ca/...skilled-worker

Would your employers be prepared to nominate you or could you find another company that would offer you a permanent job?

Sorry you are having all these problems with your employer

Aviator

The client is responsible for instructing their lawyer and deciding whether to follow their advice or not. The consequences are the same even if the lawyer is wrong. The separate issue is proving the advice was wrong and the client suing the lawyer for giving the wrong advice. This is even harder if the lawyer will not put anything in writing.

An option is for the OP to put in writing his understanding of the situation and what he has been told by the lawyer and the company. This may offer some mitigation.

tatters86

A update as my work permit has now expired...


I stopped working but was forced to walk out of the job as they refused to allow me to stop work till the LMO arrived as in there eyes l was in the wrong and there was no reason for me not to carry on working. The application for a new TWP was sent off by the lawyers on the day that the work permit expired which is apprently will be held by CIC till the LMO is granted. But l guessing now that l have left the job this will be scrapped.

The issue now is l was unable to change my status before the work permit expired at the end of last week as l would have to leave the country which in turn would affect my application for common law PR which l will now be applying for. Am l still able to change/restore by status as a vistor without leaving the country now that my permit has expired??


Thanks

adamducker

I cannot believe this...what a shitty shitty situation to have found yourself in. Can't help answer the other question. Can I ask how you are making ends meet money wise?

Siouxie

That's awful - so sorry to hear this news.

You could have put in an application to change to visitor status by mail or online at any time before your IEC work permit expired (there was absolutely no need to leave the country) - you would then have been on implied status (visitor) until you got a decision from CIC.

You will need to submit an application to change to visitor status now and apply for restoration at the same time.

Guide 5551 - Applying to Change Conditions or Extend Your Stay in Canada

SchnookoLoly

Not really an update to this thread, just updating my ridiculous "why implied status does not apply to IEC" post below.

Perhaps one of the mods can update the sticky with the below? What's linked there now was my original reply in response to the OP's specific situation; the below is a bit more generic and probably better suited for the sticky.

-----

What you need to know about IEC and Implied Status

The question often comes up on whether people who in Canada under the IEC program can benefit from Implied Status. There is a lot of misconception about this, particularly in that many immigration lawyers and the CIC helpline often tell people that they CAN benefit from implied status. In fact, you CANNOT benefit from implied status if you are coming off of an IEC visa. However, it's logical that most people will think "I'll believe the immigration consultant, not some stranger on the internet", so to arm yourself with the correct information, here are references from CIC itself and from the Temporary Foreign Worker's Handbook - official sources that clarify the situation.

1a) The Immigration and Refugee Protection Regulations: http://laws-lois.justice.gc.ca/PDF/SOR-2002-227.pdf

1b) The Temporary Foreign Worker's handbook: http://www.cic.gc.ca/english/resourc...w/fw01-eng.pdf
IEC is a type of temporary foreign worker (TFW), so this handbook applies to you.

2) What is the definition of "Implied Status"?
"Implied Status" is the extension of an existing work permit, meant to bridge you between the expiry of your original work permit, and a decision being made on an application for a new work permit, whether that "new" permit is an extension of your existing work permit, or an entirely new work permit altogether.

But let's find this in the official documentation.

In the Immigration and Refugee Regulations, Section 201(1) on page 245 is the part of the regulation that allows you to apply for a renewal of work permit in the first place. It states:
In the TFW Handbook, Section 5.22, "Work without a work permit R186(u)—Implied status" is the section that deals with Implied Status. Implied status is defined as:
The Immigration and Refugee Regulations also has a section 186(u), pages 224-229, which states:
Those together say that if you have applied for a new work permit (whether an extension or a new category), you are effectively working under the same conditions, restrictions, and regulations as your original work permit.

As was stated before, implied status is a type of extension. This is important.

If you have applied for PR outland: Then R186(u), Implied Status, cannot possibly apply to you because you have not applied for a new work permit. Since PR is not a type of work permit, you cannot claim to have applied for a new work permit, and therefore you cannot benefit from implied status.

If you have applied for PR inland: Inland applications USED to allow for an open work permit (OWP) to be filed at the same time as the application, however, applications for an OWP are no longer accepted at the time of application. You can only apply for an OWP after you have received sponsor approval, which at the time of writing this, takes about 10 months. So, unlike the limitation in an outland application, you fulfil the criteria that you have to have applied for a new work permit, so you are just bound by the conditions of your old work permit - that is, the conditions of your IEC visa. So, let's look at the conditions of your IEC visa - skip to (3).

If you have applied for a work permit (TWP, OWP, CEC, etc): You fulfil the criteria that you have to have applied for a new work permit, so you are just bound by the conditions of your old work permit - that is, the conditions of your IEC visa. So, let's look at the conditions of your IEC visa.

3) Conditions of the IEC work permit
Open the TFW Handbook up to Section 5.34, "Canadian interests: Reciprocal employment—International Experience Canada (IEC) (formerly known as the International Youth Programs and International Exchange Programs) R205(b), C21".
Find the paragraph that begins with "Conditions of Work Permit", and take note of this line:
It is explicitly a condition of IEC that you cannot ask for an extension.
Some people say "but I'm not asking for an extension of my IEC, I'm asking for a new work permit!" But you *are* asking for an extension. Implied Status just means you are asking to extend the validity and conditions of your current work permit in order for you to continue working until a decision has been made on the application for your new work permit.

So, for you to benefit from implied status (i.e., an extension of your current work permit), you need to have a work permit that can be extended.

It says right there, IEC cannot be extended. Because you cannot extend IEC, you cannot benefit from implied status.

Let's say you had a normal TWP which was expiring, and your employer was going through the process of getting you another work permit. TWPs can be extended, so if you apply for a new work permit, you can extend your current TWP to cover you in the interim. You are bound by the same conditions as the original TWP for the time you are implied status, until your new WP is issued.

But, you are not on a normal TWP. You are on IEC, which is valid for one year, and one year only, with no extensions. Therefore, because there is nothing to extend, you can't benefit from implied status.

4) What does CIC's website have to say about it?
CIC addresses this question directly on their FAQ page, here: Travel and Work in Canada | Frequently Asked Questions From the United Kingdom Students and Youth About Travel and Work in Canada | International Experience Canada

Find the "Work and Study" section, and take note of Question 5:
Remember, we said implied status is a type of extension, and as you can see above, IEC cannot be extended.

5) But I want to beat the dead horse!
Information that explicitly states you cannot work after the expiry of your work permit is also here: Can I extend my International Experience Canada work permit?

In summary:
--If you have applied for PR outland, you cannot benefit from implied status because you have not applied for a new work permit.
--If you have applied for a new work permit (either via inland PR or directly) then you can only benefit from implied status if you have an work permit that can be extended
--IEC cannot be extended
--Therefore implied status cannot possibly apply to IEC
--Therefore those on IEC visas cannot benefit from implied status under any circumstance.

Another way of phrasing it (thanks to Siouxie for this neat wrap-up):
1) Subsection 201(1) is the provision that allows you to extend a work permit. Remember, implied status is a type of extension.
2) Section 186(u) provides implied status to those work permit holders who have made an application under subsection 201(1).
3) IEC permits cannot be extended therefore 201(1) is not applicable.
4) An IEC permit holder cannot have implied status as provided by 186(u) because they cannot make a valid application under 201(1).