Originally Posted by Cburns85

what would be examples of vocational or professional she has a diploma in childcare and education where she studied in a collage for 2 years and has 2 years working in this field as an ofstead registered childminder but. i have the NOC code for it. what would this class as?

Originally Posted by christmasoompa

Do you mean something like a NVQ? They aren't normally counted on an ECA, so for points estimating purposes I wouldn't include them. When you do the ECA, you can send them off anyway (might as well give it a try) and you never know, but normally they wouldn't count. So assume points for her highest education level without them and see how you go.

Originally Posted by Former Lancastrian

I have been having this discussion with IRCC and CBSA for a few years and never been given a definitive answer on this. Each case is assessed on its own merits I was told. I have seen letters issued by the visa office in London stating it is and it isn't.
To receive a caution you have to admit guilt to the offence and if you choose not to admit guilt then the Police can still proceed by way of court action.
The IRCC in their manuals have this as a definition of a conviction
15.2 Conviction
A conviction is a finding by a competent authority that a person is guilty of an offence. A charge or a confession is not a conviction.
In cases involving a charge or a confession, the use of the “committing an act” provisions within IRPA may be appropriate.
A conviction does not exist in the following situations:
 the conviction is set aside on appeal;
 the court grants an absolute or conditional discharge as provided for in the Criminal
Code;
 the person is granted a pardon in a foreign jurisdiction and the pardon is recognized as
equivalent to a Canadian record suspension.

If you go to the UK Gov website regarding police cautions there is a para that states
A caution is not a criminal conviction, but it could be used as evidence of bad character if you go to court for another crime.
https://www.gov.uk/caution-warning-penalty

There is no such thing as a police caution in Canada so the rationale some use is if that offence had been committed in Canada could a conviction arise and they use this taken from the IRCC Manuals

Officers should also recognize that a decision by a local policing authority not to prosecute is often a result of considerations that are specific to the criminal justice context and not necessarily consistent with the objectives of managing access to Canada. In other words, a decision by a local policing authority not to lay or proceed with charges should not automatically be considered as prima facie evidence that an offence was not committed; nor should officers be overly capricious in the use of the Act’s inadmissibility provisions

This becomes a bone of contention at Ports Of Entry with UK citizens who have not made an application like Spousal Sponsorship or other routes to Permanent Residency as opposed to applying for a work permit at a POE. Although the eTA application asks about convictions then I guess in the UK as its not a conviction most would be answering No so is there a case for misrepresentation?

The UK Police have given cautions for some very serious offences committed in the UK and if some officers are of the opinion that its not a conviction then they would be able to enter Canada.

Taken from a BBC article in 2013
In September, ministers announced that simple cautions for serious offences such as rape, robbery and supplying class A drugs would be banned.

There was a report in 2014 that cautions were going to be scrapped
Police cautions 'to be scrapped' in England and Wales - BBC News

So there is no simple answer but if working at a POE based on the Act I would find them inadmissible.

Originally Posted by BritInParis

I dashed off that reply last night without checking it.

What I should have wrote is; in the UK a caution is not considered a conviction - only a court can convict someone - however a caution is still treated as a conviction by other jurisdictions as you have admitted guilt to an offence and the concept of a police caution does not exist. The same principle applies to previous offences that have been 'stepped down' - the Rehabilitation of Offenders Act 1974 does not apply outside the UK - hence the need for an ACRO Police Certificate that will show 'No Live Trace' as opposed to a DBS certificate which invariably will be blank.

Originally Posted by Cburns85

its not an NVQ there now called a diploma however this was done at a collage on a 2 year course so im sure this classes as education does it not? other than that all she has is GCSE from school.

Originally Posted by Former Lancastrian

NP and that what I have been trying to tell the powers that be that just because the UK ROA 1974 is quoted doesn't mean it always applies. Granted if receiving a pardon in the UK Canada would accept it.
The famous Burgon case from 1991 is always used but BURGON was never convicted and thats where there is some misunderstanding. In the SANAI case we demonstrated that a pardon given in one jurisdiction doesn't mean Canada has to accept it.
The idea of a person receiving a caution for rape or burglary in the UK but not being found inadmissible is beyond my comprehension yet IRCC and CBSA have accepted this in certain cases as not being a conviction.

Originally Posted by BritInParis

This is the problem that accepting a caution for an offence means that there is no sentence, custodial or otherwise?

Originally Posted by christmasoompa

OK, so I'd guesstimate points based on secondary education only, it doesn't sound like it would count to me as it's vocational.

But what is she scoring if you say just secondary, and what is she scoring with a 2 year diploma? You can see then if the diploma is essential and if so, know that the ECA will be crucial and worth doing first before the IELTS.

Do you have a degree/masters? If so, you might be better off being the principal applicant so do check your scores too. You know how Canada seems to require a degree for everything, and immigration is no different!

HTH.

Originally Posted by Former Lancastrian

I understand why the UK introduced cautions so that the court system wouldn't clog up and result in convictions for minor offences that impacted a UK citizens ability to apply for jobs or other things but cautions were then handed out for offences that should never have been.
Canada also needs to revise its legislation IMHO when dealing with minor criminality such as a shoplifting charge or minor criminal damage.
Is 10 years too long to be deemed rehabilitated for offences such as above?
Keep the will never be deemed and need to apply for rehabilitation for the more serious offences.

Originally Posted by Cburns85

iso id be best doing the ECA first so id know

Originally Posted by christmasoompa

But there's no point in paying £350 or so for your ECA's if she won't be scoring anywhere near enough anyway, even with the diploma - do check it first, at least to give yourself a rough idea and make sure you're eligible before you start spending!

Originally Posted by Cburns85

Im definatly going to look first and ill update what will be a rough score hopfully then we can get a better idea.

Originally Posted by christmasoompa

Sounds like a plan.

Originally Posted by Cburns85

see on the points system i was looking now and it says (Two-year program at a university, college, trade or technical school, or other institute 91 points) now her diploma was a 2 year program at collage so will this count it even says diploma on the education section sugesting diplomas would count on your ECA this is where i get confused.

Originally Posted by christmasoompa

As mentioned above, it wouldn't normally count because of the subject matter (vocational), but I'd do the points test both with the 2 year diploma and without, to see how borderline the score is for each. So try it with the 91 points, and the 28, and see what she gets.