Canadian salary question
Dec 22nd 2002, 9:25 am
#31
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Canadian salary question
> Put that together with proposed plans to keep a national database on every
> resident of the US covering all their personal details, health records,
bank
> accounts, spending plans, what they buy what they read etc to determine if
> they are potential "terrorists" and then all the new homeland security
> business and holding US citizens without charge or trial and a flagging
> economy and yes, I can see why one would choose the US.
Land of the free!
--
Regards
-Terry
> resident of the US covering all their personal details, health records,
bank
> accounts, spending plans, what they buy what they read etc to determine if
> they are potential "terrorists" and then all the new homeland security
> business and holding US citizens without charge or trial and a flagging
> economy and yes, I can see why one would choose the US.
Land of the free!
--
Regards
-Terry
Dec 22nd 2002, 9:42 am
#32
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Canadian salary question
> Then probably I will to to Canada to enjoy the "free" health insurance
> (Remember Canada welcomes everyone:-) Oh, well, probably not because the
> health system may be broken by then (not to affend anyone, but it's
> already a problem facing universal health care: either watering down the
> quality or going broke)
Undoubtedly broken by the freeloaders who expect to retire to Canada and
have free health service paid for by someone else! :-)
--
Regards
-Terry
> (Remember Canada welcomes everyone:-) Oh, well, probably not because the
> health system may be broken by then (not to affend anyone, but it's
> already a problem facing universal health care: either watering down the
> quality or going broke)
Undoubtedly broken by the freeloaders who expect to retire to Canada and
have free health service paid for by someone else! :-)
--
Regards
-Terry
Dec 22nd 2002, 12:47 pm
#33
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Canadian salary question
"dingbat" wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Originally posted by The Wizzard
> > they may factor in things like education with regard to degrees
> > etc which
> > are generally of a hire standard in Canada.
> >
> > Er...you are joking.....
no. fraid not.
Now sure if you take the very top of American education, your harvard and
yale ivy league schools and MIT you have some of the best in the world, but
that goes for many countries, who all have their world renound universities,
like Oxford and Cambridge in England or the university of Toronto. Less in
Canada sure but Canada only has a population of 30 million people, UK has 60
million, USA has 280 million so youd expect more there.
I talking more of the general standard of education, national literacy rates
and numeracy. The quality of overall education. In a country where you can
practicaly set up a web site and sell degrees to people.
Im sure in reality there is not much difference between the majority of good
graduates in the US or Canada or the UK or France or Germany or Sweden or
where ever, the US just has a bad reputation for the education of the non
elite.
news:[email protected]...
> Originally posted by The Wizzard
> > they may factor in things like education with regard to degrees
> > etc which
> > are generally of a hire standard in Canada.
> >
> > Er...you are joking.....
no. fraid not.
Now sure if you take the very top of American education, your harvard and
yale ivy league schools and MIT you have some of the best in the world, but
that goes for many countries, who all have their world renound universities,
like Oxford and Cambridge in England or the university of Toronto. Less in
Canada sure but Canada only has a population of 30 million people, UK has 60
million, USA has 280 million so youd expect more there.
I talking more of the general standard of education, national literacy rates
and numeracy. The quality of overall education. In a country where you can
practicaly set up a web site and sell degrees to people.
Im sure in reality there is not much difference between the majority of good
graduates in the US or Canada or the UK or France or Germany or Sweden or
where ever, the US just has a bad reputation for the education of the non
elite.
Dec 22nd 2002, 4:02 pm
#34
Cynically amused.
Joined: Oct 2002
Location: BC
Posts: 3,648
I have the Stats upstairs (and will find and post,) but Canada, in terms of the basic benchmarks (reading, writing, comprehension, language skills and general science) is way down the scale. I was shocked to see even the UK above them in literacy skills given the mess that was made of our system in the seventies and early eighties. For example, in BC, 60% of 4th graders failed the provincial tests for reading this year. Bear in mind that a 4th grader (9-10 yrs) reads at a level on average two years below a European child (i.e at 6-8 year level) then you see that there is indeed a problem. The exception is Math, which is skewed anyway by the disproportionate amount of Chinese kids who were tested in the last sample. Almost 80% of those take extra Math tuition either at home or through Kumon or similar. There is a big issue to be addressed here, and the Unions and the PC mob need to take off the blinkers and look closely. But yes, of course, the cream of the cream University wise in any country are shining examples of how to do it right. Canada is getting there, it has three Universities that are excellent, two in the East but only one in the West. Sad but true.
Last edited by dingbat; Dec 22nd 2002 at 4:06 pm.
Dec 22nd 2002, 5:44 pm
#35
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Canadian salary question
"dingbat"
> Canada is
> getting there, it has three Universities that are excellent, two in the
> East but only one in the West. Sad but true.
Could you please list those universities for us?
Thanks,
> Canada is
> getting there, it has three Universities that are excellent, two in the
> East but only one in the West. Sad but true.
Could you please list those universities for us?
Thanks,
Dec 22nd 2002, 8:59 pm
#36
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Canadian salary question
dingbat wrote:
>
> I have the Stats upstairs (and will find and post,) but Canada, in terms
> of the basic benchmarks (reading, writing, comprehension, language
> skills and general science) is way down the scale. I was shocked to see
> even the UK above them in literacy skills given the mess that was made
> of our system in the seventies and early eighties. For example, in BC,
> 60% of 4th graders failed the provincial tests for reading this year.
The problem is equating different standard tests from different
countries. Each regime has its own goal in standardized testing and
will focus on that.
Also, one has to remember that reading at a 4th grade level is a very
hit and miss affair. A good many kids are not ready to "read" fluently
or preductively until Grades 5 or 6. We are pressuring kids to be able
to do some things too early and leaving those that struggle to fall
through the cracks.
>
> I have the Stats upstairs (and will find and post,) but Canada, in terms
> of the basic benchmarks (reading, writing, comprehension, language
> skills and general science) is way down the scale. I was shocked to see
> even the UK above them in literacy skills given the mess that was made
> of our system in the seventies and early eighties. For example, in BC,
> 60% of 4th graders failed the provincial tests for reading this year.
The problem is equating different standard tests from different
countries. Each regime has its own goal in standardized testing and
will focus on that.
Also, one has to remember that reading at a 4th grade level is a very
hit and miss affair. A good many kids are not ready to "read" fluently
or preductively until Grades 5 or 6. We are pressuring kids to be able
to do some things too early and leaving those that struggle to fall
through the cracks.
Dec 22nd 2002, 10:23 pm
#37
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Canadian salary question
Or you could look at the latest figures:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/education/2520303.stm
That International School League Table was drawn up and released as you can
see only one month ago, and that places Canada 4th in the world, with the UK
coming in 7th and the USA way down in 18th.
Thats 14/15 year olds and just taking basic thinks like literacy, numeracy
and science.
"dingbat" wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> I have the Stats upstairs (and will find and post,) but Canada, in terms
> of the basic benchmarks (reading, writing, comprehension, language
> skills and general science) is way down the scale. I was shocked to see
> even the UK above them in literacy skills given the mess that was made
> of our system in the seventies and early eighties. For example, in BC,
> 60% of 4th graders failed the provincial tests for reading this year.
> Bear in mind that a 4th grader (9-10 yrs) reads at a level on average
> two years below a European child (i.e at 6-8 year level) then you see
> that there is indeed a problem. The exception is Math, which is skewed
> anyway by the disproportionate amount of Chinese kids who were tested in
> the last sample. Almost 80% of those take extra Math tuition either at
> home or through Kumon or similar. There is a big issue to be addressed
> here, and the Unions and the PC mob need to take off the blinkers and
> look closely. But yes, of course, the cream of the cream University wise
> in any country are shining examples of how to do it right. Canada is
> getting there, it has three Universities that are excellent, two in the
> East but only one in the West. Sad but true.
> --
> Posted via http://britishexpats.com
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/education/2520303.stm
That International School League Table was drawn up and released as you can
see only one month ago, and that places Canada 4th in the world, with the UK
coming in 7th and the USA way down in 18th.
Thats 14/15 year olds and just taking basic thinks like literacy, numeracy
and science.
"dingbat" wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> I have the Stats upstairs (and will find and post,) but Canada, in terms
> of the basic benchmarks (reading, writing, comprehension, language
> skills and general science) is way down the scale. I was shocked to see
> even the UK above them in literacy skills given the mess that was made
> of our system in the seventies and early eighties. For example, in BC,
> 60% of 4th graders failed the provincial tests for reading this year.
> Bear in mind that a 4th grader (9-10 yrs) reads at a level on average
> two years below a European child (i.e at 6-8 year level) then you see
> that there is indeed a problem. The exception is Math, which is skewed
> anyway by the disproportionate amount of Chinese kids who were tested in
> the last sample. Almost 80% of those take extra Math tuition either at
> home or through Kumon or similar. There is a big issue to be addressed
> here, and the Unions and the PC mob need to take off the blinkers and
> look closely. But yes, of course, the cream of the cream University wise
> in any country are shining examples of how to do it right. Canada is
> getting there, it has three Universities that are excellent, two in the
> East but only one in the West. Sad but true.
> --
> Posted via http://britishexpats.com
Dec 22nd 2002, 11:24 pm
#38
Cynically amused.
Joined: Oct 2002
Location: BC
Posts: 3,648
Thank you - I was working on the obviously outdated figures given to us in the education class at University here :-) I couldn't find an exact age group match to yours, but I have Grade 10 figures, which are the 16 year olds:
http://www.bced.gov.bc.ca/assessment.../dist03910.pdf
Page 7 of this report (Vancouver school district) shows a different story to the international league table. Remember also that 16 year olds in the UK take GSCE's which most Grade 10's couldn't even attempt here yet. The bone of contention is that the Canadian figures in the International League Tables include (excellent) private schools which are entitled to be part of the testing process here. They are excluded from the reports you see on the site reference above, but are included in any international ranking. I could be wrong (and I really don't know for sure) but I recall that private schools are excluded from the UK rankings. I guess the comparison is flawed, however you approach it. So I shall defiantly stick to my totally unscientific first hand impression and comparison of students I both teach and study with.... ;-)
With regards to Grade 4s being pressured - why is teaching a child to read for pleasure "pressure"? By Grade 4 they *should * be able to read fluidly and easily. They are 9 years old!! It is a real shame that some teachers just don't seem to know how to teach the kids to read anymore. Potentially bright kids are falling through the cracks as you say. The pressure they feel comes from not understanding and feeling like a failure, but if the teachers in conjunction with the parents taught them to read before they left Grade 1, their next steps would be made so much easier. JMHO.
http://www.bced.gov.bc.ca/assessment.../dist03910.pdf
Page 7 of this report (Vancouver school district) shows a different story to the international league table. Remember also that 16 year olds in the UK take GSCE's which most Grade 10's couldn't even attempt here yet. The bone of contention is that the Canadian figures in the International League Tables include (excellent) private schools which are entitled to be part of the testing process here. They are excluded from the reports you see on the site reference above, but are included in any international ranking. I could be wrong (and I really don't know for sure) but I recall that private schools are excluded from the UK rankings. I guess the comparison is flawed, however you approach it. So I shall defiantly stick to my totally unscientific first hand impression and comparison of students I both teach and study with.... ;-)
With regards to Grade 4s being pressured - why is teaching a child to read for pleasure "pressure"? By Grade 4 they *should * be able to read fluidly and easily. They are 9 years old!! It is a real shame that some teachers just don't seem to know how to teach the kids to read anymore. Potentially bright kids are falling through the cracks as you say. The pressure they feel comes from not understanding and feeling like a failure, but if the teachers in conjunction with the parents taught them to read before they left Grade 1, their next steps would be made so much easier. JMHO.
Last edited by dingbat; Dec 22nd 2002 at 11:36 pm.
Dec 23rd 2002, 8:42 am
#39
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Canadian salary question
ccqiu wrote:
> Why is Canadian experience so important?
It's a scam so they can pay you less. There is *some* sort of logic to
it in the sense that they can't possibly check the
references/experiences of everyone to see if it is valid (unless from
an English/French speaking country) so they just discount your
experience till you prove yourself.
>What if the new immigrant had 8 years of US experience?
If there wasn't someone with 8 years of Canadian experience, US
experience would be the next choice. Easy to call down to the states
to check references.
> Why is Canadian experience so important?
It's a scam so they can pay you less. There is *some* sort of logic to
it in the sense that they can't possibly check the
references/experiences of everyone to see if it is valid (unless from
an English/French speaking country) so they just discount your
experience till you prove yourself.
>What if the new immigrant had 8 years of US experience?
If there wasn't someone with 8 years of Canadian experience, US
experience would be the next choice. Easy to call down to the states
to check references.
Dec 23rd 2002, 4:06 pm
#40
Forum Regular
Joined: Oct 2002
Posts: 160
Re: Canadian salary question
Originally posted by Stuart Brook
The Wizzard wrote:
> and yes, I can see why one would choose the US.
My sentiments exactly. There's nothing quite like comparing things on
an equal footing!
The Wizzard wrote:
> and yes, I can see why one would choose the US.
My sentiments exactly. There's nothing quite like comparing things on
an equal footing!
I hate to say that I just bought something in a Toronto mall that seemed to be cheap -- until you saw the 15% sales tax on top of it -- sigh...
Jan 16th 2003, 2:59 am
#41
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Canadian salary question
On Thu, 19 Dec 2002 23:45:12 GMT, "Guru"
wrote:
>Deduct 33% for tax and rest is yours.
>Guru
Yes. Then you have to pay 7-25% sales tax on everything you buy
(ontario is 15%). And if you get any bonuses at work, expect to only
receive about 55% of it. The rest goes to the government.
And if you are in a higher tax bracket, up the 33% to a higher number.
>"apurwadi" wrote in message
>news:[email protected]...
>> For example, in California, for single status, after taxes and all
>> deductions, US$80,000 annual salary would give an approximate take-home
>> income between US$4200 to US$4800 a month.
>> Can someone tell me how much the take-home income for CAD$80,000 AFTER
>> all taxes and deduction assuming the person living in Vancouver/Toronto?
>> --
>> Posted via http://britishexpats.com
wrote:
>Deduct 33% for tax and rest is yours.
>Guru
Yes. Then you have to pay 7-25% sales tax on everything you buy
(ontario is 15%). And if you get any bonuses at work, expect to only
receive about 55% of it. The rest goes to the government.
And if you are in a higher tax bracket, up the 33% to a higher number.
>"apurwadi" wrote in message
>news:[email protected]...
>> For example, in California, for single status, after taxes and all
>> deductions, US$80,000 annual salary would give an approximate take-home
>> income between US$4200 to US$4800 a month.
>> Can someone tell me how much the take-home income for CAD$80,000 AFTER
>> all taxes and deduction assuming the person living in Vancouver/Toronto?
>> --
>> Posted via http://britishexpats.com
Jan 16th 2003, 3:14 am
#42
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Canadian salary question
Another myth...
Those with average income pay about 25% of their income in income tax, not
33% - for example person with $75,000 income will pay about $20,000 in
income tax.
See here:
http://www.ey.com/global/Content.nsf...2_Personal_Tax
As for GST/PST - it is up to 15%, not 25%. Compare it to VAT in most
European countries exceeding 20%...
--
../..
Andrew Miller
Immigration Consultant
Vancouver, British Columbia
email: [email protected]
(delete REMOVE from the above address before sending email)
For confidential phone consultation go here:
http://members.yahoo.liveadvice.com/andrewmiller_canada
________________________________
wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> On Thu, 19 Dec 2002 23:45:12 GMT, "Guru"
> wrote:
> >Deduct 33% for tax and rest is yours.
> >Guru
> Yes. Then you have to pay 7-25% sales tax on everything you buy
> (ontario is 15%). And if you get any bonuses at work, expect to only
> receive about 55% of it. The rest goes to the government.
> And if you are in a higher tax bracket, up the 33% to a higher number.
> >"apurwadi" wrote in message
> >news:[email protected]...
> >>
> >> For example, in California, for single status, after taxes and all
> >> deductions, US$80,000 annual salary would give an approximate take-home
> >> income between US$4200 to US$4800 a month.
> >>
> >> Can someone tell me how much the take-home income for CAD$80,000 AFTER
> >> all taxes and deduction assuming the person living in
Vancouver/Toronto?
> >>
> >> --
> >> Posted via http://britishexpats.com
> >
Those with average income pay about 25% of their income in income tax, not
33% - for example person with $75,000 income will pay about $20,000 in
income tax.
See here:
http://www.ey.com/global/Content.nsf...2_Personal_Tax
As for GST/PST - it is up to 15%, not 25%. Compare it to VAT in most
European countries exceeding 20%...
--
../..
Andrew Miller
Immigration Consultant
Vancouver, British Columbia
email: [email protected]
(delete REMOVE from the above address before sending email)
For confidential phone consultation go here:
http://members.yahoo.liveadvice.com/andrewmiller_canada
________________________________
wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> On Thu, 19 Dec 2002 23:45:12 GMT, "Guru"
> wrote:
> >Deduct 33% for tax and rest is yours.
> >Guru
> Yes. Then you have to pay 7-25% sales tax on everything you buy
> (ontario is 15%). And if you get any bonuses at work, expect to only
> receive about 55% of it. The rest goes to the government.
> And if you are in a higher tax bracket, up the 33% to a higher number.
> >"apurwadi" wrote in message
> >news:[email protected]...
> >>
> >> For example, in California, for single status, after taxes and all
> >> deductions, US$80,000 annual salary would give an approximate take-home
> >> income between US$4200 to US$4800 a month.
> >>
> >> Can someone tell me how much the take-home income for CAD$80,000 AFTER
> >> all taxes and deduction assuming the person living in
Vancouver/Toronto?
> >>
> >> --
> >> Posted via http://britishexpats.com
> >
Jan 16th 2003, 8:41 am
#43
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Canadian salary question
"The Wizzard" wrote:
> > > they may factor in things like education with regard to degrees
> > > etc which
> > > are generally of a hire standard in Canada.
> > >
> > > Er...you are joking.....
Er I hope you meant to write "higher" standard?
In any case, it seems to be that the average uni in the states is a
bit less stringent than the average uni in Canada is a bit less
stringent than the average uni in Britain is a bit less stringent than
the average uni in Contintental Europe.
I can say though, that the top American unis (e.g. MIT, Harvard etc)
definitely do have their fair share of excellent people.
It used to be true that you hardly ever met anyone with a British
degree who was a dummy but I can't say that to be true any more. Some
of the younger people I am working with here have absolutely no idea
and their "degrees" are from the same university as mine (Glasgow),
which in my day was relatively difficult to get into. But then again,
when I went to university only 10% of the population had degrees, now
it's more like 40%, so I suspect that even in the UK there has been
some dumbing down, just that it's taken longer to happen than in the
States. I can say, though, that I have met people in Canada with
degrees from "reputable" universities that can best be described as
"ignorant" and this is even although the Canadians themselves believe
they are less ignorant than Americans.
> > > they may factor in things like education with regard to degrees
> > > etc which
> > > are generally of a hire standard in Canada.
> > >
> > > Er...you are joking.....
Er I hope you meant to write "higher" standard?
In any case, it seems to be that the average uni in the states is a
bit less stringent than the average uni in Canada is a bit less
stringent than the average uni in Britain is a bit less stringent than
the average uni in Contintental Europe.
I can say though, that the top American unis (e.g. MIT, Harvard etc)
definitely do have their fair share of excellent people.
It used to be true that you hardly ever met anyone with a British
degree who was a dummy but I can't say that to be true any more. Some
of the younger people I am working with here have absolutely no idea
and their "degrees" are from the same university as mine (Glasgow),
which in my day was relatively difficult to get into. But then again,
when I went to university only 10% of the population had degrees, now
it's more like 40%, so I suspect that even in the UK there has been
some dumbing down, just that it's taken longer to happen than in the
States. I can say, though, that I have met people in Canada with
degrees from "reputable" universities that can best be described as
"ignorant" and this is even although the Canadians themselves believe
they are less ignorant than Americans.
Jan 16th 2003, 8:44 am
#44
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Canadian salary question
"The Wizzard" wrote:
> Or you could look at the latest figures:
>
> http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/education/2520303.stm
>
> That International School League Table was drawn up and released as you can
> see only one month ago, and that places Canada 4th in the world, with the UK
> coming in 7th and the USA way down in 18th.
>
> Thats 14/15 year olds and just taking basic thinks like literacy, numeracy
> and science.
Or you could take further anecdotal evidence such as that of my friend
who is Canadian and did his teacher training in Glasgow. When he
returned to Toronto, he couldn't believe how backwards the kids were
in comparison to the kids in Glasgow, and that's even considering what
a dump Glasgow is.
> Or you could look at the latest figures:
>
> http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/education/2520303.stm
>
> That International School League Table was drawn up and released as you can
> see only one month ago, and that places Canada 4th in the world, with the UK
> coming in 7th and the USA way down in 18th.
>
> Thats 14/15 year olds and just taking basic thinks like literacy, numeracy
> and science.
Or you could take further anecdotal evidence such as that of my friend
who is Canadian and did his teacher training in Glasgow. When he
returned to Toronto, he couldn't believe how backwards the kids were
in comparison to the kids in Glasgow, and that's even considering what
a dump Glasgow is.
Jan 16th 2003, 10:33 am
#45
Forum Regular
Joined: Nov 2002
Location: Globe Trotter
Posts: 51
BTW, I'm presently at Glasgow. My home is in India and I strongly believe most government sponsored universities in India offer very good standard of degree level education within 1% cost of the western countries' degrees. Till now, getting university degree doesn't cost average Indian an arm and a leg - even at Indian purchase power parity standard.
It's only a marketing hype that some countries degrees are better than others! In fact competition is much fierce in most Asian countries for higher education (esp. in India, China, Japan, Korea etc.)
Another point I observed is that most western people usually don't have cross platform knowledge (I'm talking with respect to IT industry).
It's only a marketing hype that some countries degrees are better than others! In fact competition is much fierce in most Asian countries for higher education (esp. in India, China, Japan, Korea etc.)
Another point I observed is that most western people usually don't have cross platform knowledge (I'm talking with respect to IT industry).