Canadian credit system
Jan 26th 2004, 1:50 am
#1
Guest
Posts: n/a
Canadian credit system
Is there any place where I can consult some questions regarding the
Canadian credit system? Different people tell me different stories...
--
,,,
(o o) Peter Wu
---ooO-(_)-Ooo--- Powered by GNU/Linux 2.4.22
Canadian credit system? Different people tell me different stories...
--
,,,
(o o) Peter Wu
---ooO-(_)-Ooo--- Powered by GNU/Linux 2.4.22
Jan 26th 2004, 2:19 am
#2
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Canadian credit system
what kind of questions do you have ?
Credit Bureau websites are the best official source, but other than that
all credit bureaus system are pretty much the same,,,,the only difference i
have noticed is canada has a very strict privacy law and that effects credit
bureaus as well as anything else relating to privacy
"Peter Wu" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Is there any place where I can consult some questions regarding the
> Canadian credit system? Different people tell me different stories...
> --
> ,,,
> (o o) Peter Wu
> ---ooO-(_)-Ooo--- Powered by GNU/Linux 2.4.22
Credit Bureau websites are the best official source, but other than that
all credit bureaus system are pretty much the same,,,,the only difference i
have noticed is canada has a very strict privacy law and that effects credit
bureaus as well as anything else relating to privacy
"Peter Wu" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Is there any place where I can consult some questions regarding the
> Canadian credit system? Different people tell me different stories...
> --
> ,,,
> (o o) Peter Wu
> ---ooO-(_)-Ooo--- Powered by GNU/Linux 2.4.22
Jan 26th 2004, 11:20 am
#3
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Canadian credit system
What sort of information are you looking for? I can probably answer a lot
of your questions.
"Peter Wu" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Is there any place where I can consult some questions regarding the
> Canadian credit system? Different people tell me different stories...
> --
> ,,,
> (o o) Peter Wu
> ---ooO-(_)-Ooo--- Powered by GNU/Linux 2.4.22
of your questions.
"Peter Wu" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Is there any place where I can consult some questions regarding the
> Canadian credit system? Different people tell me different stories...
> --
> ,,,
> (o o) Peter Wu
> ---ooO-(_)-Ooo--- Powered by GNU/Linux 2.4.22
Jan 26th 2004, 1:58 pm
#4
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Canadian credit system
On Mon, 26 Jan 2004 07:20:38 -0500, Nick B wrote:
> What sort of information are you looking for? I can probably answer a lot
> of your questions.
1. How to secure the first credit card for new immigrants? How long need
to wait?
2. What kind of things will credit positively while what negatively?
--
,,,
(o o) Peter Wu
---ooO-(_)-Ooo--- Powered by GNU/Linux 2.4.22
> What sort of information are you looking for? I can probably answer a lot
> of your questions.
1. How to secure the first credit card for new immigrants? How long need
to wait?
2. What kind of things will credit positively while what negatively?
--
,,,
(o o) Peter Wu
---ooO-(_)-Ooo--- Powered by GNU/Linux 2.4.22
Jan 27th 2004, 12:23 am
#5
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Canadian credit system
To get one's first credit card, the easiest thing to do is place a deposit
with a bank in the form of a GIC, then assign it as security for a credit
card. TD Canada Trust, for example, will provide a Visa card to a new
immigrant, temporary resident, etc, with 100% security. They hold a
three-year GIC for the same amount as the card's limit, if you don't pay the
card is revoked and the Bank applies your deposit to the outstanding
balance.
After having such a card for a year or so, most lenders will be satisfied
with your credit history to the point that as long as your request is
reasonable, you should be able to obtain credit.
Paying on time, not applying too often, and not having high revolving credit
balances positively affects one's credit score. Paying late, not at all,
having high balances on revolving credit facilities, and constantly applying
for credit negatively impact it.
"Peter Wu" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> On Mon, 26 Jan 2004 07:20:38 -0500, Nick B wrote:
> > What sort of information are you looking for? I can probably answer a
lot
> > of your questions.
> 1. How to secure the first credit card for new immigrants? How long need
> to wait?
> 2. What kind of things will credit positively while what negatively?
> --
> ,,,
> (o o) Peter Wu
> ---ooO-(_)-Ooo--- Powered by GNU/Linux 2.4.22
with a bank in the form of a GIC, then assign it as security for a credit
card. TD Canada Trust, for example, will provide a Visa card to a new
immigrant, temporary resident, etc, with 100% security. They hold a
three-year GIC for the same amount as the card's limit, if you don't pay the
card is revoked and the Bank applies your deposit to the outstanding
balance.
After having such a card for a year or so, most lenders will be satisfied
with your credit history to the point that as long as your request is
reasonable, you should be able to obtain credit.
Paying on time, not applying too often, and not having high revolving credit
balances positively affects one's credit score. Paying late, not at all,
having high balances on revolving credit facilities, and constantly applying
for credit negatively impact it.
"Peter Wu" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> On Mon, 26 Jan 2004 07:20:38 -0500, Nick B wrote:
> > What sort of information are you looking for? I can probably answer a
lot
> > of your questions.
> 1. How to secure the first credit card for new immigrants? How long need
> to wait?
> 2. What kind of things will credit positively while what negatively?
> --
> ,,,
> (o o) Peter Wu
> ---ooO-(_)-Ooo--- Powered by GNU/Linux 2.4.22
Jan 27th 2004, 1:22 am
#6
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Canadian credit system
On Mon, 26 Jan 2004 20:23:40 -0500, Nick B wrote:
> To get one's first credit card, the easiest thing to do is place a deposit
> with a bank in the form of a GIC, then assign it as security for a credit
> card. TD Canada Trust, for example, will provide a Visa card to a new
> immigrant, temporary resident, etc, with 100% security. They hold a
> three-year GIC for the same amount as the card's limit, if you don't pay the
> card is revoked and the Bank applies your deposit to the outstanding
> balance.
Yes, this is what I did. And the bank just refuse to increase my credit
limit after I become their customer for 6 months.
> After having such a card for a year or so, most lenders will be satisfied
> with your credit history to the point that as long as your request is
> reasonable, you should be able to obtain credit.
Does it mean I should stick to a secure deposit credit card for 1 year
before applying for any other credit card even if I make payments
correctly on time?
> Paying on time, not applying too often, and not having high revolving credit
> balances positively affects one's credit score. Paying late, not at all,
> having high balances on revolving credit facilities, and constantly applying
> for credit negatively impact it.
I appreciate the information you provide. However, I'm wondering what
good can a good credit history do to a new immigrant.
When a new immigrant arrives, he can apply for a secure deposit credit
card and open some bank accounts. At that moment, his credit history is
probably zero.
Within the first year, some new immigrants may think of buying a car
and/or a house. As their credit history is almost equal to null, can they
enjoy any benefit from their 1-year credit history?
Does a good credit history means that you have more chance to be approved
by lenders? If yes, it seems that new immigrants may not have the luck to
enjoy the benefit of creating and maintaining a good credit history.
Do correct me if I understand the whole picture wrong.
--
,,,
(o o) Peter Wu
---ooO-(_)-Ooo--- Powered by GNU/Linux 2.4.22
> To get one's first credit card, the easiest thing to do is place a deposit
> with a bank in the form of a GIC, then assign it as security for a credit
> card. TD Canada Trust, for example, will provide a Visa card to a new
> immigrant, temporary resident, etc, with 100% security. They hold a
> three-year GIC for the same amount as the card's limit, if you don't pay the
> card is revoked and the Bank applies your deposit to the outstanding
> balance.
Yes, this is what I did. And the bank just refuse to increase my credit
limit after I become their customer for 6 months.
> After having such a card for a year or so, most lenders will be satisfied
> with your credit history to the point that as long as your request is
> reasonable, you should be able to obtain credit.
Does it mean I should stick to a secure deposit credit card for 1 year
before applying for any other credit card even if I make payments
correctly on time?
> Paying on time, not applying too often, and not having high revolving credit
> balances positively affects one's credit score. Paying late, not at all,
> having high balances on revolving credit facilities, and constantly applying
> for credit negatively impact it.
I appreciate the information you provide. However, I'm wondering what
good can a good credit history do to a new immigrant.
When a new immigrant arrives, he can apply for a secure deposit credit
card and open some bank accounts. At that moment, his credit history is
probably zero.
Within the first year, some new immigrants may think of buying a car
and/or a house. As their credit history is almost equal to null, can they
enjoy any benefit from their 1-year credit history?
Does a good credit history means that you have more chance to be approved
by lenders? If yes, it seems that new immigrants may not have the luck to
enjoy the benefit of creating and maintaining a good credit history.
Do correct me if I understand the whole picture wrong.
--
,,,
(o o) Peter Wu
---ooO-(_)-Ooo--- Powered by GNU/Linux 2.4.22
Jan 27th 2004, 1:48 am
#7
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Canadian credit system
Establishing good credit history is essential for many things - even, in
some cases, for renting a home never mind obtaining a mortgage to buy one.
With a secured credit card, a lender will not increase your limit unless you
put up more security - they certainly will not consider six months' history
to be a sign of stablilty. I have seen security released on credit cards
after one year, but this is even rare, it usually takes at least 18 months
to two years' time before you look really good.
A short credit history is better than nil credit history, so long as it's
good history. When combined with other factors in the credit granting
process, it is vital to being able to do things like financing cars or
homes.
"Peter Wu" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> On Mon, 26 Jan 2004 20:23:40 -0500, Nick B wrote:
> > To get one's first credit card, the easiest thing to do is place a
deposit
> > with a bank in the form of a GIC, then assign it as security for a
credit
> > card. TD Canada Trust, for example, will provide a Visa card to a new
> > immigrant, temporary resident, etc, with 100% security. They hold a
> > three-year GIC for the same amount as the card's limit, if you don't pay
the
> > card is revoked and the Bank applies your deposit to the outstanding
> > balance.
> Yes, this is what I did. And the bank just refuse to increase my credit
> limit after I become their customer for 6 months.
> > After having such a card for a year or so, most lenders will be
satisfied
> > with your credit history to the point that as long as your request is
> > reasonable, you should be able to obtain credit.
> Does it mean I should stick to a secure deposit credit card for 1 year
> before applying for any other credit card even if I make payments
> correctly on time?
> > Paying on time, not applying too often, and not having high revolving
credit
> > balances positively affects one's credit score. Paying late, not at
all,
> > having high balances on revolving credit facilities, and constantly
applying
> > for credit negatively impact it.
> I appreciate the information you provide. However, I'm wondering what
> good can a good credit history do to a new immigrant.
> When a new immigrant arrives, he can apply for a secure deposit credit
> card and open some bank accounts. At that moment, his credit history is
> probably zero.
> Within the first year, some new immigrants may think of buying a car
> and/or a house. As their credit history is almost equal to null, can they
> enjoy any benefit from their 1-year credit history?
> Does a good credit history means that you have more chance to be approved
> by lenders? If yes, it seems that new immigrants may not have the luck to
> enjoy the benefit of creating and maintaining a good credit history.
> Do correct me if I understand the whole picture wrong.
> --
> ,,,
> (o o) Peter Wu
> ---ooO-(_)-Ooo--- Powered by GNU/Linux 2.4.22
some cases, for renting a home never mind obtaining a mortgage to buy one.
With a secured credit card, a lender will not increase your limit unless you
put up more security - they certainly will not consider six months' history
to be a sign of stablilty. I have seen security released on credit cards
after one year, but this is even rare, it usually takes at least 18 months
to two years' time before you look really good.
A short credit history is better than nil credit history, so long as it's
good history. When combined with other factors in the credit granting
process, it is vital to being able to do things like financing cars or
homes.
"Peter Wu" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> On Mon, 26 Jan 2004 20:23:40 -0500, Nick B wrote:
> > To get one's first credit card, the easiest thing to do is place a
deposit
> > with a bank in the form of a GIC, then assign it as security for a
credit
> > card. TD Canada Trust, for example, will provide a Visa card to a new
> > immigrant, temporary resident, etc, with 100% security. They hold a
> > three-year GIC for the same amount as the card's limit, if you don't pay
the
> > card is revoked and the Bank applies your deposit to the outstanding
> > balance.
> Yes, this is what I did. And the bank just refuse to increase my credit
> limit after I become their customer for 6 months.
> > After having such a card for a year or so, most lenders will be
satisfied
> > with your credit history to the point that as long as your request is
> > reasonable, you should be able to obtain credit.
> Does it mean I should stick to a secure deposit credit card for 1 year
> before applying for any other credit card even if I make payments
> correctly on time?
> > Paying on time, not applying too often, and not having high revolving
credit
> > balances positively affects one's credit score. Paying late, not at
all,
> > having high balances on revolving credit facilities, and constantly
applying
> > for credit negatively impact it.
> I appreciate the information you provide. However, I'm wondering what
> good can a good credit history do to a new immigrant.
> When a new immigrant arrives, he can apply for a secure deposit credit
> card and open some bank accounts. At that moment, his credit history is
> probably zero.
> Within the first year, some new immigrants may think of buying a car
> and/or a house. As their credit history is almost equal to null, can they
> enjoy any benefit from their 1-year credit history?
> Does a good credit history means that you have more chance to be approved
> by lenders? If yes, it seems that new immigrants may not have the luck to
> enjoy the benefit of creating and maintaining a good credit history.
> Do correct me if I understand the whole picture wrong.
> --
> ,,,
> (o o) Peter Wu
> ---ooO-(_)-Ooo--- Powered by GNU/Linux 2.4.22
Jan 27th 2004, 3:03 am
#8
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Canadian credit system
I was wondering why the Canadian credit system is very slow compared to the
US credit system? in the US a new immigrant can open a bank acc and receive
a credit card with $250 or even $500 on it.
"Peter Wu" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Is there any place where I can consult some questions regarding the
> Canadian credit system? Different people tell me different stories...
> --
> ,,,
> (o o) Peter Wu
> ---ooO-(_)-Ooo--- Powered by GNU/Linux 2.4.22
US credit system? in the US a new immigrant can open a bank acc and receive
a credit card with $250 or even $500 on it.
"Peter Wu" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Is there any place where I can consult some questions regarding the
> Canadian credit system? Different people tell me different stories...
> --
> ,,,
> (o o) Peter Wu
> ---ooO-(_)-Ooo--- Powered by GNU/Linux 2.4.22
Jan 27th 2004, 5:56 am
#9
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Canadian credit system
"Nick B." <[email protected]> wrote:
> What sort of information are you looking for? I can probably answer a lot
> of your questions.
I'm curious...as I understand it, Canadian creditors cannot/will not query
American credit reporting bureaus. Would it be reasonable/helpful, or
pointless, to bring a credit report and/or score from such (Equifax,
Experian, TransUnion) along with me when applying for credit in Canada?
--
Ivy Tanith
* enchanted be! * oh smeg! * mstie #31731 * hail the horned one *
Life is like a speedbump - sometimes there are yellow lines.
> What sort of information are you looking for? I can probably answer a lot
> of your questions.
I'm curious...as I understand it, Canadian creditors cannot/will not query
American credit reporting bureaus. Would it be reasonable/helpful, or
pointless, to bring a credit report and/or score from such (Equifax,
Experian, TransUnion) along with me when applying for credit in Canada?
--
Ivy Tanith
* enchanted be! * oh smeg! * mstie #31731 * hail the horned one *
Life is like a speedbump - sometimes there are yellow lines.
Jan 27th 2004, 12:51 pm
#10
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Canadian credit system
On Mon, 26 Jan 2004 21:48:26 -0500, Nick B wrote:
> Establishing good credit history is essential for many things - even, in
> some cases, for renting a home never mind obtaining a mortgage to buy one.
> With a secured credit card, a lender will not increase your limit unless you
> put up more security - they certainly will not consider six months' history
> to be a sign of stablilty. I have seen security released on credit cards
> after one year, but this is even rare, it usually takes at least 18 months
> to two years' time before you look really good.
> A short credit history is better than nil credit history, so long as it's
> good history. When combined with other factors in the credit granting
> process, it is vital to being able to do things like financing cars or
> homes.
Somebody tells me that buying a car will score positively to my credit
history? Is it true?
--
,,,
(o o) Peter Wu
---ooO-(_)-Ooo--- Powered by GNU/Linux 2.4.22
> Establishing good credit history is essential for many things - even, in
> some cases, for renting a home never mind obtaining a mortgage to buy one.
> With a secured credit card, a lender will not increase your limit unless you
> put up more security - they certainly will not consider six months' history
> to be a sign of stablilty. I have seen security released on credit cards
> after one year, but this is even rare, it usually takes at least 18 months
> to two years' time before you look really good.
> A short credit history is better than nil credit history, so long as it's
> good history. When combined with other factors in the credit granting
> process, it is vital to being able to do things like financing cars or
> homes.
Somebody tells me that buying a car will score positively to my credit
history? Is it true?
--
,,,
(o o) Peter Wu
---ooO-(_)-Ooo--- Powered by GNU/Linux 2.4.22
Jan 27th 2004, 2:37 pm
#11
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Canadian credit system
"John D" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> I was wondering why the Canadian credit system is very slow compared to
the
> US credit system? in the US a new immigrant can open a bank acc and
receive
> a credit card with $250 or even $500 on it.
Not right away.
After about 6 months or so.
To get a CC right away, you will have to put some kind of deposit.
news:[email protected]...
> I was wondering why the Canadian credit system is very slow compared to
the
> US credit system? in the US a new immigrant can open a bank acc and
receive
> a credit card with $250 or even $500 on it.
Not right away.
After about 6 months or so.
To get a CC right away, you will have to put some kind of deposit.
Jan 27th 2004, 4:41 pm
#12
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Canadian credit system
Buying with bank loan and repay the loan on time would increase your credit
rating.
"Peter Wu" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> On Mon, 26 Jan 2004 21:48:26 -0500, Nick B wrote:
> > Establishing good credit history is essential for many things - even, in
> > some cases, for renting a home never mind obtaining a mortgage to buy
one.
> > With a secured credit card, a lender will not increase your limit unless
you
> > put up more security - they certainly will not consider six months'
history
> > to be a sign of stablilty. I have seen security released on credit
cards
> > after one year, but this is even rare, it usually takes at least 18
months
> > to two years' time before you look really good.
> > A short credit history is better than nil credit history, so long as
it's
> > good history. When combined with other factors in the credit granting
> > process, it is vital to being able to do things like financing cars or
> > homes.
> Somebody tells me that buying a car will score positively to my credit
> history? Is it true?
> --
> ,,,
> (o o) Peter Wu
> ---ooO-(_)-Ooo--- Powered by GNU/Linux 2.4.22
rating.
"Peter Wu" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> On Mon, 26 Jan 2004 21:48:26 -0500, Nick B wrote:
> > Establishing good credit history is essential for many things - even, in
> > some cases, for renting a home never mind obtaining a mortgage to buy
one.
> > With a secured credit card, a lender will not increase your limit unless
you
> > put up more security - they certainly will not consider six months'
history
> > to be a sign of stablilty. I have seen security released on credit
cards
> > after one year, but this is even rare, it usually takes at least 18
months
> > to two years' time before you look really good.
> > A short credit history is better than nil credit history, so long as
it's
> > good history. When combined with other factors in the credit granting
> > process, it is vital to being able to do things like financing cars or
> > homes.
> Somebody tells me that buying a car will score positively to my credit
> history? Is it true?
> --
> ,,,
> (o o) Peter Wu
> ---ooO-(_)-Ooo--- Powered by GNU/Linux 2.4.22
Jan 27th 2004, 4:44 pm
#13
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Canadian credit system
Not really. It's different from each other at this point and time.
"Ivy Tanith" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> "Nick B." <[email protected]> wrote:
> > What sort of information are you looking for? I can probably answer a
lot
> > of your questions.
> I'm curious...as I understand it, Canadian creditors cannot/will not query
> American credit reporting bureaus. Would it be reasonable/helpful, or
> pointless, to bring a credit report and/or score from such (Equifax,
> Experian, TransUnion) along with me when applying for credit in Canada?
> --
> Ivy Tanith
> * enchanted be! * oh smeg! * mstie #31731 * hail the horned one *
> Life is like a speedbump - sometimes there are yellow lines.
"Ivy Tanith" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> "Nick B." <[email protected]> wrote:
> > What sort of information are you looking for? I can probably answer a
lot
> > of your questions.
> I'm curious...as I understand it, Canadian creditors cannot/will not query
> American credit reporting bureaus. Would it be reasonable/helpful, or
> pointless, to bring a credit report and/or score from such (Equifax,
> Experian, TransUnion) along with me when applying for credit in Canada?
> --
> Ivy Tanith
> * enchanted be! * oh smeg! * mstie #31731 * hail the horned one *
> Life is like a speedbump - sometimes there are yellow lines.
Jan 27th 2004, 4:45 pm
#14
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Canadian credit system
You can get prepaid credit card very much like phone card.
"John D" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> I was wondering why the Canadian credit system is very slow compared to
the
> US credit system? in the US a new immigrant can open a bank acc and
receive
> a credit card with $250 or even $500 on it.
> "Peter Wu" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
> > Is there any place where I can consult some questions regarding the
> > Canadian credit system? Different people tell me different stories...
> >
> > --
> > ,,,
> > (o o) Peter Wu
> > ---ooO-(_)-Ooo--- Powered by GNU/Linux 2.4.22
"John D" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> I was wondering why the Canadian credit system is very slow compared to
the
> US credit system? in the US a new immigrant can open a bank acc and
receive
> a credit card with $250 or even $500 on it.
> "Peter Wu" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
> > Is there any place where I can consult some questions regarding the
> > Canadian credit system? Different people tell me different stories...
> >
> > --
> > ,,,
> > (o o) Peter Wu
> > ---ooO-(_)-Ooo--- Powered by GNU/Linux 2.4.22
Jan 27th 2004, 8:49 pm
#15
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Canadian credit system
But we don't have too many options of prepaid cards in Canada, the banking
system in Canada is obsolete, in the US you open a regular checking acc and
comes with a Check card( debit card with the Visa or MC logo on it)
"observer" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:%[email protected]...
> You can get prepaid credit card very much like phone card.
> "John D" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
> > I was wondering why the Canadian credit system is very slow compared to
> the
> > US credit system? in the US a new immigrant can open a bank acc and
> receive
> > a credit card with $250 or even $500 on it.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > "Peter Wu" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> > news:[email protected]...
> > > Is there any place where I can consult some questions regarding the
> > > Canadian credit system? Different people tell me different stories...
> > >
> > > --
> > > ,,,
> > > (o o) Peter Wu
> > > ---ooO-(_)-Ooo--- Powered by GNU/Linux 2.4.22
> >
> >
system in Canada is obsolete, in the US you open a regular checking acc and
comes with a Check card( debit card with the Visa or MC logo on it)
"observer" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:%[email protected]...
> You can get prepaid credit card very much like phone card.
> "John D" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
> > I was wondering why the Canadian credit system is very slow compared to
> the
> > US credit system? in the US a new immigrant can open a bank acc and
> receive
> > a credit card with $250 or even $500 on it.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > "Peter Wu" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> > news:[email protected]...
> > > Is there any place where I can consult some questions regarding the
> > > Canadian credit system? Different people tell me different stories...
> > >
> > > --
> > > ,,,
> > > (o o) Peter Wu
> > > ---ooO-(_)-Ooo--- Powered by GNU/Linux 2.4.22
> >
> >