gopijags

I know this is not the right forum to post this - but I am seeing a lot of Brits wanting to leave the shores of England.

Well, I have recently been awarded the Highly Skilled Migrant Status (HSMP) to the UK. This is a Permanant Residency status
given to people who are highly skilled in their profession, a new scheme introduced by the UK.

My background is in IT and I have 7 years of Experience with the Big 5 and I earn over a 100K Aussie Dollars.

After receiving this residency award, I am asking myself if I should move with my family to the UK.

My only concerns are the cost of living and the standard of living in the UK. From what I see, most of the Permanant jobs in IT pay only around 35-45 Pounds/Annum. How does this salary equate to someone earning 100K in Australia? Using the conversion rate ot 2.6 - 40,000 British Pounds = 100,000 Australian Dollars.

My question to all of you Elite Brits is, does 40,000 Pounds Annual Salary, get you a decent house in Outer London/ Rest of UK, and a decent car and a decent lifestyle to support a wife a 2 kids. I mean can one save anything after having a mortgage?

The only reason I want to move to the UK, is because, I want to give my kids a good British Education, which has always been so cherished to me. And also it is an opportunity of a lifetime to work in that part of the world. And surely a UK Permanant Residency opens so many new opportunities in Europe and the United States. And if I get into Contracting in the UK I can also make a good 300-400 Pounds/day.

I really need some candid advice from all of you folks who are leaving the UK to Other shores, to give me your opinions. What are the Negatives about Life in the UK.

Regards

Jags

levu

Ok....well...where should I start.


1. The weather. Compared to Australia, you should get used to more rain, more wind, more general drearyness and a whole lot colder.

2. Because it colder you'll spend more on your heating bills.

3. Driving costs a fotune here. We have just about the highest car taxes in the world....and whats more, despite paying a fortune to own a car and buy petrol for it, our roads are officially the worst in europe. If you live anywhere near london expect to spend lots and lots of time sitting in traffic jams on totally inadequate, badly maintained roads.

4. Education....the state school are average at best and generally not very good. If you can afford to send your kids to private school, well thats just great, except then you'd be teaching them those fine British "values" of a class-ridden society and a social elite. As an Australian you should know better than to poison their minds with such tripe.

5. Wages are quite high compared with other parts of europe, but then again, everything costs more too. The media in the UK is always campaiging against "Rip-Off Britian"....we've been ripped off for just about everything for so long than everyone just seems to grudingly accept it these days. Food/Clothes/Restaurants/Energy/Holidays/transport all cost more here than they do anywhere else in europe. As a result, you might get paid more but you'll soon find you're no better off here than you would be for example in Holland on 1/2 the income.

6. Housing in the UK is insanely expensive. People in the South East now spend upwards of 60% of their income just covering their mortgage. The problem is that everyone wants their own little detached house with a front and back garden among the rolling green hills of England. Trouble is, England is small and the population is huge. Planning laws restrict development so the houses which do get built are priced out of reach of just about everyone. Expect to pay around $400 000Aus for a totally non-exceptional little house if you're buying in the South East. Alternatively if you want to live in Scotland, $400 000 would just about buy you your own castle.

7. Quality of Life in The UK is officially not as high as it is in either Canada or Australia....thats why there's so many british folk on here who are emmigrating.



As you said a UK permanent residence card would allow you the freedom of Europe. Thats the beauty of the EU. I'm from Scotland but I live in Amsterdam now. You'd be free to work and live permanently in any of the EU member states from Lapland Finland to Lisbon Portugal....its all yours. )

Personally I'd probably take this oppertunity just to give me more options. You'll still be able to return to Australia anytime you want I guess.....having all of Europe available to you too can't be bad.


I'd take the visa, but I would avoid living in the UK....it'd be a step backwards from what you're used to in Australia....But then places like Germany, France and Holland might be steps forward.

If you take this visa think of it as a gateway to Europe rather than a gateway to little england. I'm sure you're parents/grandparents immigrated to Australia for good reason...you should trust their judgement...and don't reverse the gift they gave you.

Janie Lovering

I totally agree with levu, i moved from the UK to Canada with my family in May 1999,
we moved because we were getting nowhere despite earning above average income
(working overtime 6 days a week just to cover are outgoings). The state school is
poor, no way were my kids going through it if we could help it. My husband has had to
return to the UK temporarily due to family ill health, he says he was in the country
for less than 6 hours before remembering why he left! can't wait to get back to
Canada. Canada is the best move we could have made for our family, (although some
family members would disagree, missing their grandchildren etc.) If you like europe,
then you will probably be fine, as for england, our first house, which had two small
bedrooms, living room, bathroom and kitchen, small garden, very small was recently on
the market in the UK for 100,000 pounds, apprx 265,000 Aus dollars. just to give you
an idea, cars are a price and a half, so is gas (petrol). good luck Janie "gopijags"
<[email protected]> wrote in message news:[email protected]...
    > I know this is not the right forum to post this - but I am seeing a lot of Brits
    > wanting to leave the shores of England.
    >
    > Well, I have recently been awarded the Highly Skilled Migrant Status (HSMP) to the
    > UK. This is a Permanant Residency status given to people who are highly skilled in
    > their profession, a new scheme introduced by the UK.
    >
    > My background is in IT and I have 7 years of Experience with the Big 5 and I earn
    > over a 100K Aussie Dollars.
    >
    > After receiving this residency award, I am asking myself if I should move with my
    > family to the UK.
    >
    > My only concerns are the cost of living and the standard of living in the UK. From
    > what I see, most of the Permanant jobs in IT pay only around 35-45 Pounds/Annum.
    > How does this salary equate to someone earning 100K in Australia? Using the
    > conversion rate ot 2.6 - 40,000 British Pounds = 100,000 Australian Dollars.
    >
    > My question to all of you Elite Brits is, does 40,000 Pounds Annual Salary, get you
    > a decent house in Outer London/ Rest of UK, and a decent car and a decent lifestyle
    > to support a wife a 2 kids. I mean can one save anything after having a mortgage?
    >
    > The only reason I want to move to the UK, is because, I want to give my kids a good
    > British Education, which has always been so cherished to me. And also it is an
    > opportunity of a lifetime to work in that part of the world. And surely a UK
    > Permanant Residency opens so many new opportunities in Europe and the United
    > States. And if I get into Contracting in the UK I can also make a good 300-400
    > Pounds/day.
    >
    > I really need some candid advice from all of you folks who are leaving the UK
    > to Other shores, to give me your opinions. What are the Negatives about Life
    > in the UK.
    >
    > Regards
    >
    > Jags
    >
    >
    >
    > --
    > Posted via http://britishexpats.com

CN Tower

Speaking for myself anyway: I've been thinking about this and I definitely can't be as objective about the UK as someone who was coming to live here for the first time may be. And yes, I am leaving it for Canada for all the reasons that most of us Brits seem to...

Having said that, I have known several Australians who moved here for various reasons (relationships; jobs etc) loved it and stayed. (Plus my boyfriend, who is a Brit-residing-Canadian and has been brought up on a staple diet of anti-UK propaganda by his English mother...and couldn't believe it on arrival that there were actually vast green fields and not only that, that they stayed green throughout the winter!)

The above have naturally had a different take on life in the UK, for example without exception, all have made more effort than I ever have in visiting Europe, I think because one has a very different perpective on distance when you have had myriad different countries on your doorstep for your whole life. Australia is relatively isolated, geographically-speaking, whereas it is absolutely feasible to visit most European destinations for a weekend, from the UK.

It *is* expensive, the weather is sort of perma-autumn and there is a lot of small-mindedness and things being done a certain way 'because they always have'...but you sound like you have reasons for wanting to come and those, coupled with the fact that you haven't lived here all your life and are seeking, above all else a *change*...may be enough for it to be the right decision for you.

Cheers,
Claire

PS My boyfriend doesn't want to go back to Canada, he is being dragged under protest

The Wizzard

while i have to agree with a lot of what the other guys have said i can't let that be
the only thing posted about the UK. It does have it's good points and like any
country it's good and bad and depends where you are intending on living and what kind
of person you are and what you like. I had never considered moving from the UK until
i met my now wife and visited her in Canada and that was that i just wanted to move
there rather than her move here because for me personally i prefered it. However i
would have no problems remaining here in the UK if for some reason Canada stopped all
immigration and my wife came here instead, i wouldnt start looking for another
country to move to. The UK has many divides and one of the first you will notice with
regard to cost of living is the north/south divide. Talking about prices in the south
east and London and then talking about the prices in the rest of the UK is like
talking about two different countries all together. Teachers, police, student loans
etc all get extra funding if they are in London area because of the rise in living
once you are in that area. Stuff does cost more liek petrol cars and houses etc.
houses is a big thing at the moment the housing market has gone mad with like 20%
rises in a month and stuff. However they may rise interest rates next month and then
it will get a bit wobbly. Then again the same can be said for the Greater Toronto
Area in Canada having a huge housing boom on low interest rates etm. anyway i
digress. You can enjoy a similar standard of living in different areas of the country
for different prices, you can buy the exact same things everywhere, taxes are the
same etc (well income and VAT etc). Ive grown up in the north west of England and my
parents live here on the fylde coast and compared to london it has one of the lowest
crime rates and housing is reasonable etc and a 40K salary for the main earner and so
forth would stand you in good stead, whereas youd need more down south. Jobs in IT
dont seem as bad here as the picture painted in Canada, ive just finished university
and all my friends who are IT or computing grduates from last year and this have all
found jobs either before they graduated or within a few months afterwards so the jobs
must be there. As an australian i dont think you'd find many barriers with many
common cultural trends and no language barrier etc. Moving around europe is fine if
you are good with adjusting to various cultures and with language etc, although i
suppose everywhere speaks english nowadays, i just dont personaly find continental
europe that appealing apart from holidays there, hehe. As for schools it hink that
depends where ou live, an outright slating of state schools over private schools is
ridiculous, except maybe if you are too rich to care to have your children mix with
normal folk, hehe. Although there are lots of state schools with serious issues, and
the UK education system is in a bit of a turmoil at the moment it's not true of them
all. Myself and most of my friends went through regular state school systems, all
getting GCSE's and Alevels and now all graduating university with degrees or masters
etc. In fact the local state 'bog standard comprehensive' has better annual results
than all but one of the local private schools and the same goes for the A level
college i went to. In fact reading the news over the years the local public boarding
and private schools have had more problems with drugs and delinquancy than the state
ones. However i live in a nice part of the country and at university in Manchester i
got to see some of the less desirable parts of teh country and yes id save every
penny i could to avoid sending my kids to some of the schools near where i lived in
manchester and id rather live in a tent in my parents garden than live in several of
the areas near wher ei lived in manchester as well. As has been said you have the
freedom to come, see if you like it, try moving around europe and go back to
australia if you so desire, if you are fond of moving around then go for it. I jsut
thought id point out that there are lots of nice places in the UK and millions of
people who do absolutley fine, although msot of the critisisms leveled at it are
true, they can equally be leveled at most other countries.

Drew

Terry R Brookin

Hi Jags,

according to
http://www.homefair.com/homefair/ser...&previousPage=
244&cid=homefair&fromCountry=Australia&toCountry=U nited+Kingdom

you would need to make around aus127,000 or uk49,000 to have a similar standard of
living in London.

A lot would also depend on how much dosh you bring with you to establish yourself.
Also expect a long period of adjustment while you prove yourself -
i.e. low rates of pay until you've got some local references. I would say you'll need
5 years before you get 'comfortable' - that's probably true immigrating
anywhere. The English are also very picky about skills - you need to be an exact
match or you won't even get an interview (at least in a contract). Related
experience tends to be ignored. Oh and you you want to live in London you'll
have to get used to the smell - the first thing I noticed landing for the first
time in England is how thick the air is and London is the worst.

    > What are the Negatives about Life in the UK.

As I dislike England and the English I will not comment on that. <g>

    > And surely a UK Permanant Residency opens so many new opportunities in Europe and
    > the United States.

Does nothing for the US and I think you will require full citizenship before you're
allowed to work freely in the EU.

    > And if I get into Contracting in the UK I can also make a good 300-400 Pounds/day.

Maybe a couple of years ago. My rate was 500/day and is down to 350/day, but I
haven't had an English client sign up since before October last year. My current
income comes from clients in Canada. Agencies have offered me contracts not much
above minimum wage uk6/hr, though around 20/hr is more common. Experience doesn't
count for that much in many contracts, just price - thats why there is so much crap
software around.

There are plenty of websites advertising property in England, but you could start
with www.upmystreet.com which says the average price for a detached house in London
is uk704,289! Bear in mind that it's only an indication - my area (rural Surrey) says
flats are uk127,000, but an equivalent apartment to ours is currently up for sale for
uk300,000 and will almost certainly achieve that.

By all means come to England and see what its like, but come with realistic
expectations.
--
Regards -Terry

Waterships

I currently work in the IT business. I have an excellent job which I would give up
tomorrow for Canada. You don't need to work in London to get a good IT job. I would
agree with the other posters that your skills need to bulls-eye on requirements or
you will get bypassed. By that we don't mean near, we mean exact. for example if it
says PAT then UAT won't do or if you need Software version 1.2.00 then 1.2.01 will
not do - even if it is newer. Don't ask why, we mere employees don't understand it
either.Jobs paying £40,000 up north would need around £65,000 in London to be
equivalent.

Don't live in London. An average small 2 bed (say 10x8 feet) terrace with lounge
(12x10) and kitchen (9x7) with no garage or garden and a bathroom you can touch all
walls without moving can set you back about £140,000. It isn't worth it. The same
terrace in northern England would be around £45-60,000. I would suggest you live
further north and visit London (if you must). I live in the heart of the Cheshire
countryside. I am renting a lovely cottage (bungalow) because I could never afford to
buy it in my wildest dreams. There are pockets of expensive areas outside London too
- mostly in yuppie or country locations. This is the only bit of the UK life that I
will miss - my home in the country.

It does not open any doors to the USA. You will need to get a work visa just like
everyone else.

Whatever you decide, I wish you luck.

BJ

"gopijags" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
    > I know this is not the right forum to post this - but I am seeing a lot of Brits
    > wanting to leave the shores of England.
    >
    > Well, I have recently been awarded the Highly Skilled Migrant Status (HSMP) to the
    > UK. This is a Permanant Residency status given to people who are highly skilled in
    > their profession, a new scheme introduced by the UK.
    >
    > My background is in IT and I have 7 years of Experience with the Big 5 and I earn
    > over a 100K Aussie Dollars.
    >
    > After receiving this residency award, I am asking myself if I should move with my
    > family to the UK.
    >
    > My only concerns are the cost of living and the standard of living in the UK. From
    > what I see, most of the Permanant jobs in IT pay only around 35-45 Pounds/Annum.
    > How does this salary equate to someone earning 100K in Australia? Using the
    > conversion rate ot 2.6 - 40,000 British Pounds = 100,000 Australian Dollars.
    >
    > My question to all of you Elite Brits is, does 40,000 Pounds Annual Salary, get you
    > a decent house in Outer London/ Rest of UK, and a decent car and a decent lifestyle
    > to support a wife a 2 kids. I mean can one save anything after having a mortgage?
    >
    > The only reason I want to move to the UK, is because, I want to give my kids a good
    > British Education, which has always been so cherished to me. And also it is an
    > opportunity of a lifetime to work in that part of the world. And surely a UK
    > Permanant Residency opens so many new opportunities in Europe and the United
    > States. And if I get into Contracting in the UK I can also make a good 300-400
    > Pounds/day.
    >
    > I really need some candid advice from all of you folks who are leaving the UK
    > to Other shores, to give me your opinions. What are the Negatives about Life
    > in the UK.
    >
    > Regards
    >
    > Jags
    >
    >
    >
    > --
    > Posted via http://britishexpats.com

Kukku

Jags,

First of all HSMP only gives you a work visa and permit to take any employment in the
UK, and its not permanent residence (that you can only get after staying in the UK on
a work permit job for four years). So it means you can not freely roam around and
take any employment in other EU countries (without proper authorization).
IT/Telecom sector is really in a bad shape at the moment, not too many jobs around ,
although HSMP visa will give you an edge.. but my suggestion is that don't quit
your job, spend some holidays in the UK and look for a reasonable job, possibly
more than 40k (if you want to maintain a good life style).

Good Luck

levu <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:<[email protected]>...
    > Ok....well...where should I start.
    >
    >
    > 1. The weather. Compared to Australia, you should get used to more rain, more wind,
    > more general drearyness and a whole lot colder.
    >
    > 2. Because it colder you'll spend more on your heating bills.
    >
    > 3. Driving costs a fotune here. We have just about the highest car taxes in the
    > world....and whats more, despite paying a fortune to own a car and buy petrol
    > for it, our roads are officially the worst in europe. If you live anywhere near
    > london expect to spend lots and lots of time sitting in traffic jams on totally
    > inadequate, badly maintained roads.
    >
    > 4. Education....the state school are average at best and generally not very good.
    > If you can afford to send your kids to private school, well thats just great,
    > except then you'd be teaching them those fine British "values" of a class-ridden
    > society and a social elite. As an Australian you should know better than to
    > poison their minds with such tripe.
    >
    > 5. Wages are quite high compared with other parts of europe, but then again,
    > everything costs more too. The media in the UK is always campaiging against
    > "Rip-Off Britian"....we've been ripped off for just about everything for so long
    > than everyone just seems to grudingly accept it these days.
    > Food/Clothes/Restaurants/Energy/Holidays/transport all cost more here than they
    > do anywhere else in europe. As a result, you might get paid more but you'll soon
    > find you're no better off here than you would be for example in Holland on 1/2
    > the income.
    >
    > 6. Housing in the UK is insanely expensive. People in the South East now spend
    > upwards of 60% of their income just covering their mortgage. The problem is that
    > everyone wants their own little detached house with a front and back garden
    > among the rolling green hills of England. Trouble is, England is small and the
    > population is huge. Planning laws restrict development so the houses which do
    > get built are priced out of reach of just about everyone. Expect to pay around
    > $400 000Aus for a totally non-exceptional little house if you're buying in the
    > South East. Alternatively if you want to live in Scotland, $400 000 would just
    > about buy you your own castle.
    >
    > 7. Quality of Life in The UK is officially not as high as it is in either Canada or
    > Australia....thats why there's so many british folk on here who are emmigrating.
    >
    >
    >
    > As you said a UK permanent residence card would allow you the freedom of Europe.
    > Thats the beauty of the EU. I'm from Scotland but I live in Amsterdam now. You'd be
    > free to work and live permanently in any of the EU member states from Lapland
    > Finland to Lisbon Portugal....its all yours. )
    >
    > Personally I'd probably take this oppertunity just to give me more options. You'll
    > still be able to return to Australia anytime you want I guess.....having all of
    > Europe available to you too can't be bad.
    >
    >
    > I'd take the visa, but I would avoid living in the UK....it'd be a step backwards
    > from what you're used to in Australia....But then places like Germany, France and
    > Holland might be steps forward.
    >
    > If you take this visa think of it as a gateway to Europe rather than a gateway to
    > little england. I'm sure you're parents/grandparents immigrated to Australia for
    > good reason...you should trust their judgement...and don't reverse the gift they
    > gave you.

Jaj

    >On Mon, 17 Jun 2002 18:48:58 +0100, "Terry R Brooking" <[email protected].> wrote:
    >
    >> And surely a UK Permanant Residency opens so many new opportunities in Europe and
    >> the United States.
    >
    >Does nothing for the US and I think you will require full citizenship before you're
    >allowed to work freely in the EU.

You need British citizenship to have any rights in the rest of the EU/EEA. There is a
5 year residency requirement before you can apply.

As for British citizenship or permanent residence giving rights in the US - are
you kidding?

Jeremy

Sm

You can enjoy whole Europe when you have EU passport. Having UK PR card won't help
it. Or I missed something?

The Wizzard

i think there was some confusion there abotu various statuses. However though not
having an EU passport wont allow free travel and work rights, an australian shoudlnt
have too much trouble with visiting Eu countries holiday and sightseeing wise and it
is certainly more affordable and simple to visit and experience different euoropean
countries from a base in the UK than as far away as Australia.

Drew

"SM" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
    > You can enjoy whole Europe when you have EU passport. Having UK PR card won't help
    > it. Or I missed something?

Peter

Jags,

    > Well, I have recently been awarded the Highly Skilled Migrant Status (HSMP) to the
    > UK. This is a Permanant Residency status given to people who are highly skilled in
    > their profession, a new scheme introduced by the UK.

As some people have already pointed out, the HSMP visa is not a permanent
residency visa.

    > And surely a UK Permanant Residency opens so many new opportunities in Europe and
    > the United States.

If you haven't already noticed, Great Britain lost the United States as a colony
about 200 years ago. Having UK permanent resident status (which, by the way, you
still do not yet have) will have no effect on any work opportunities in the United
States. Also, being a UK permanent resident does not open up any opportunities in any
other part of Europe or the EU.

Cheers, Peter

dotty

Sure, UK is super expensive, the house prices here sound cheap compared to what I see on the internet. But what about the diversity of Life, compared to Australia, there would be thousands of things in UK to see and do not available in Aus. Australia is SO isolated and way behind in many areas and peoples thinking. I,d go for it really live a little of life for a while, see some of the world. A trip from Australia costs years worth of savings, in the UK they go for a weekend. Maybe a little diversity would be good. As for Education every UK immigrant I have ever met with kids agrees that the UK education is WAY WAY ahead of Australia.
As for pommie weather, try 8 months of 40 degree 98% humidity and you will soon kill for a nice cool day, just ask all the Aussies living in the UK. Live a little, most Aussies we have said goodbye to for the UK have never come back.

Terry R Brookin

    > of England and my parents live here on the fylde coast and compared to london it
    > has one of the lowest crime rates and housing is reasonable etc and a 40K salary
    > for the main earner and so forth would stand you in good stead, whereas youd need
    > more down south.

But would you get a salary of 40k up that way? I'm doubtful.

    > Jobs in IT dont seem as bad here as the picture painted in Canada, ive
just
    > finished university and all my friends who are IT or computing grduates from last
    > year and this have all found jobs either before they graduated
or
    > within a few months afterwards so the jobs must be there.

I've found the opposite - unable to get a UK client to sign on the dotted line, but
I'm turning down work in Vancouver. Though I am self employed - this may make a
difference as there seems to be quite a few permanent positions on offer in UK abeit
relatively low paid.

    > As an australian i dont think you'd find many barriers with many common cultural
    > trends and no language barrier etc.

That I definitely dispute. I found language and cultural differences far greater
between UK and NZ than any other country I've lived in including Germany. The main
difference is that most other cultures take an interest and take the time to try to
understand the foreigner, the English do not have the patience to do so. Hence plenty
of misunderstandings. Just take care in what you say and note the reactions of the
person and you'll learn in, say, a life time! <g>

--
Regards -Terry

The Wizzard

    > But would you get a salary of 40k up that way? I'm doubtful.
    >
of course you can.