Msdonnawilson

Hi,

Has anyone been through the route of being sponsored by a relative to reside
in Canada? I have three Uncles there and I am thinking og asking one of
them to sponsor me so that i could live and work in Canada. Are there any
advantages/disadvantages to this.

I only scored 67% on the self assessment that I did on the Canadian
Immigration Website. I was seriously thinking of securing a permanent
position in order to emmigrate, instead of relying on family to assist.
However, from what I have read on the net, it seems that jobs are quite hard
to find out there!

I would lke to settle somewhere in Ontario but not Toronto. More than
likely London as that is where most of my family reside.

Can anyone offer any advice. Also there are rumours flying around the UK
that Canada are giving away visas to immigrants. How true is this?

Thanks !

Donna

Andrew Miller

Unfortunately you cannot be sponsored by an uncle.

Nobody is giving visas away - you must qualify.

--

../..

Andrew Miller
Immigration Consultant
Vancouver, British Columbia
email: [email protected]
(delete REMOVE from the above address before sending email)

For confidential phone consultation go here:

http://members.yahoo.liveadvice.com/andrewmiller_canada
________________________________


"msdonnawilson" wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
    > Hi,
    > Has anyone been through the route of being sponsored by a relative to
reside
    > in Canada? I have three Uncles there and I am thinking og asking one of
    > them to sponsor me so that i could live and work in Canada. Are there any
    > advantages/disadvantages to this.
    > I only scored 67% on the self assessment that I did on the Canadian
    > Immigration Website. I was seriously thinking of securing a permanent
    > position in order to emmigrate, instead of relying on family to assist.
    > However, from what I have read on the net, it seems that jobs are quite
hard
    > to find out there!
    > I would lke to settle somewhere in Ontario but not Toronto. More than
    > likely London as that is where most of my family reside.
    > Can anyone offer any advice. Also there are rumours flying around the UK
    > that Canada are giving away visas to immigrants. How true is this?
    > Thanks !
    > Donna

Kay

Nice thought that they give away visa

Not so

I know many British who would jump at the chance to be here in Canada

I married a Canadian (but not just to get to Canada)

It's damn cold here in Ontario too, it's -16, feels like -27C and it is damn
cold when you get out there in it too!


"Andrew Miller" wrote in message
news[email protected]...
    > Unfortunately you cannot be sponsored by an uncle.
    > Nobody is giving visas away - you must qualify.
    > --
    > ../..
    > Andrew Miller
    > Immigration Consultant
    > Vancouver, British Columbia
    > email: [email protected]
    > (delete REMOVE from the above address before sending email)
    > For confidential phone consultation go here:
    > http://members.yahoo.liveadvice.com/andrewmiller_canada
    > ________________________________
    > "msdonnawilson" wrote in message
    > news:[email protected]...
    > > Hi,
    > >
    > > Has anyone been through the route of being sponsored by a relative to
    > reside
    > > in Canada? I have three Uncles there and I am thinking og asking one of
    > > them to sponsor me so that i could live and work in Canada. Are there
any
    > > advantages/disadvantages to this.
    > >
    > > I only scored 67% on the self assessment that I did on the Canadian
    > > Immigration Website. I was seriously thinking of securing a permanent
    > > position in order to emmigrate, instead of relying on family to assist.
    > > However, from what I have read on the net, it seems that jobs are quite
    > hard
    > > to find out there!
    > >
    > > I would lke to settle somewhere in Ontario but not Toronto. More than
    > > likely London as that is where most of my family reside.
    > >
    > > Can anyone offer any advice. Also there are rumours flying around the
UK
    > > that Canada are giving away visas to immigrants. How true is this?
    > >
    > > Thanks !
    > >
    > > Donna
    > >
    > >

Hot Ice

Hello There

I was in a similar position to yours - moved here from the UK. The key
thing to remember is, this process needs patience and perseverance. It
is long, sometimes frustrating, but ultimately very, very rewarding.
There is no doubt in my mind that this country is by far the best
place to live - I can say that with some conviction as I have
worked/lived in at least 16 different countries. So hang in there,
plan well and come up with a good strategy.

Second, the economy is no worse than most countries in the world
today. Interestingly Canada's economy job situation is much better
than the US. Jobs are not plenty, but there is decent job creation -
some areas are better e.g. Alberta and parts of Quebec. BC & Ontario
are in doldrums.

These would be my suggestions:

- Look for a job first. Maybe your relatives run a business and they
make you a job offer.
- Try taking French lessons and get a competency certificate, that way
you can add points for Language skills.
- If you are thinking of studying, maybe go to school for an year or
two. That adds value.

Here is an excellent site about an immigrant experience from the UK:
http://www.witchweb.net/immigration/

And here is an all-round resource site http://www.relocatecanada.com
(highly recommended)
HTH


Note: I am not an immigration "lawyer" or consultant and these are my
personal opinions to be used as suggestions. For professional advice
please seek authorized counsel.

George Prager

purely out of curiosity:

what would you say is the single best aspect of living in Canada as compared
to the U.K.?
Not disagreeing with you, simply curious

"hot ice" wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
    > Hello There
    > I was in a similar position to yours - moved here from the UK. The key
    > thing to remember is, this process needs patience and perseverance. It
    > is long, sometimes frustrating, but ultimately very, very rewarding.
    > There is no doubt in my mind that this country is by far the best
    > place to live - I can say that with some conviction as I have
    > worked/lived in at least 16 different countries. So hang in there,
    > plan well and come up with a good strategy.
    > Second, the economy is no worse than most countries in the world
    > today. Interestingly Canada's economy job situation is much better
    > than the US. Jobs are not plenty, but there is decent job creation -
    > some areas are better e.g. Alberta and parts of Quebec. BC & Ontario
    > are in doldrums.
    > These would be my suggestions:
    > - Look for a job first. Maybe your relatives run a business and they
    > make you a job offer.
    > - Try taking French lessons and get a competency certificate, that way
    > you can add points for Language skills.
    > - If you are thinking of studying, maybe go to school for an year or
    > two. That adds value.
    > Here is an excellent site about an immigrant experience from the UK:
    > http://www.witchweb.net/immigration/
    > And here is an all-round resource site http://www.relocatecanada.com
    > (highly recommended)
    > HTH
    > Note: I am not an immigration "lawyer" or consultant and these are my
    > personal opinions to be used as suggestions. For professional advice
    > please seek authorized counsel.

Mickey

Hope you don't mind me butting in, but for me it is definitely having more
space i.e. bigger house & more land.
I'm originally from NW England.

"George Prager" wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
    > purely out of curiosity:
    > what would you say is the single best aspect of living in Canada as
compared
    > to the U.K.?
    > Not disagreeing with you, simply curious
    > "hot ice" wrote in message
    > news:[email protected]...
    > > Hello There
    > >
    > > I was in a similar position to yours - moved here from the UK. The key
    > > thing to remember is, this process needs patience and perseverance. It
    > > is long, sometimes frustrating, but ultimately very, very rewarding.
    > > There is no doubt in my mind that this country is by far the best
    > > place to live - I can say that with some conviction as I have
    > > worked/lived in at least 16 different countries. So hang in there,
    > > plan well and come up with a good strategy.
    > >
    > > Second, the economy is no worse than most countries in the world
    > > today. Interestingly Canada's economy job situation is much better
    > > than the US. Jobs are not plenty, but there is decent job creation -
    > > some areas are better e.g. Alberta and parts of Quebec. BC & Ontario
    > > are in doldrums.
    > >
    > > These would be my suggestions:
    > >
    > > - Look for a job first. Maybe your relatives run a business and they
    > > make you a job offer.
    > > - Try taking French lessons and get a competency certificate, that way
    > > you can add points for Language skills.
    > > - If you are thinking of studying, maybe go to school for an year or
    > > two. That adds value.
    > >
    > > Here is an excellent site about an immigrant experience from the UK:
    > > http://www.witchweb.net/immigration/
    > >
    > > And here is an all-round resource site http://www.relocatecanada.com
    > > (highly recommended)
    > > HTH
    > >
    > >
    > > Note: I am not an immigration "lawyer" or consultant and these are my
    > > personal opinions to be used as suggestions. For professional advice
    > > please seek authorized counsel.

Am

    >Nice thought that they give away visa
    >Not so

The 'visa giveaway' rumours may be based on what happened in the past.
CHC London was virtually giving away visas back in the 90's, I know because
I got mine in 4 months, just by filling in a form & posting it, I don't
think there were many documents attached to it, there was no interview & no
further questions asked.

Didn't do me much good though, I'm back in England.

    >I know many British who would jump at the chance to be here in Canada
    >I married a Canadian (but not just to get to Canada)

    >It's damn cold here in Ontario too, it's -16, feels like -27C and it is
damn
    >cold when you get out there in it too!

Not as cold as Calgary, I used to think -16 was quite mild after weeks when
the highest temperature was 25 below. But that didn't bother me too much,
the problem was the job situation.




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Margenda

[QUOTE]Originally posted by George Prager
purely out of curiosity:

what would you say is the single best aspect of living in Canada as compared
to the U.K.?
Not disagreeing with you, simply curious

I am not in the same position of probably the majority of people of this forum as I am retired, being sponsored by my son, and therefore not having to worry about getting work, but I can't wait to get out of the UK and live in rural Nova Scotia, which I love.

I think the main reason is space. No matter where you go in my part of the country (south-east) you cannot get away from crowds, traffic, clogged up roads, finding somewhere to park, filthy littered streets, hospital queues, depressing TV news, and council taxes being used to pay for illegal asylum seekers who are being housed in accommodation that I could only afford with a lottery win.

Moving house to another part of this country would cost me more than I could possibly afford on a pension, but I can buy a nice house in Nova Scotia for less than half than I could get from the sale of my house here, and be nearer my family than I am now.

Kay

I agree with Mickey, and I am from NW England too.
The people here have a more positive attitude (of course there are a few
that don't) and they are very friendly. I work in retail and chat to people
all day. My store is very conscious about good customer service and I find
that is what is lacking in the UK.

There are a lot of things that make it different here. There is not the same
pub culture and going for coffee and visiting people in their homes is more
common here. Of course there are pubs, or rather bars, but they are more
sensible here about not drinking under age (they are strict on ID) and
having a designated driver. I find a Canadian welcome warm and hospitable
from people I only know vaguely. Maybe partly due to my "novelty" aspect at
first..........they like my English accent and I have the story to tell of
meeting my Canadian husband on the internet. Who knows?

My sons who are now 12 and 14 love it here and would hate to go back to
England to live. They are experiencing things here they never thought they
would, such as skiing and snowboarding in the winter, and kayaking and
canoeing in the summer.

I'm not dissing England, I am from Blackpool and I think it is a fun place
to live (and I miss my girls nights out around the town!!) but I have a
better lifestyle here in Canada (Newmarket Ontario) and think there are more
opportunities for my sons.

But you have to be able to settle and accept that some things are different
(I'm not saying better or worse, just different) and not be missing England
as an England that is viewed through rose coloured specs.



"Mickey" wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
    > Hope you don't mind me butting in, but for me it is definitely having more
    > space i.e. bigger house & more land.
    > I'm originally from NW England.
    > "George Prager" wrote in message
    > news:[email protected]...
    > > purely out of curiosity:
    > >
    > > what would you say is the single best aspect of living in Canada as
    > compared
    > > to the U.K.?
    > > Not disagreeing with you, simply curious
    > >
    > > "hot ice" wrote in message
    > > news:[email protected]...
    > > > Hello There
    > > >
    > > > I was in a similar position to yours - moved here from the UK. The key
    > > > thing to remember is, this process needs patience and perseverance. It
    > > > is long, sometimes frustrating, but ultimately very, very rewarding.
    > > > There is no doubt in my mind that this country is by far the best
    > > > place to live - I can say that with some conviction as I have
    > > > worked/lived in at least 16 different countries. So hang in there,
    > > > plan well and come up with a good strategy.
    > > >
    > > > Second, the economy is no worse than most countries in the world
    > > > today. Interestingly Canada's economy job situation is much better
    > > > than the US. Jobs are not plenty, but there is decent job creation -
    > > > some areas are better e.g. Alberta and parts of Quebec. BC & Ontario
    > > > are in doldrums.
    > > >
    > > > These would be my suggestions:
    > > >
    > > > - Look for a job first. Maybe your relatives run a business and they
    > > > make you a job offer.
    > > > - Try taking French lessons and get a competency certificate, that way
    > > > you can add points for Language skills.
    > > > - If you are thinking of studying, maybe go to school for an year or
    > > > two. That adds value.
    > > >
    > > > Here is an excellent site about an immigrant experience from the UK:
    > > > http://www.witchweb.net/immigration/
    > > >
    > > > And here is an all-round resource site http://www.relocatecanada.com
    > > > (highly recommended)
    > > > HTH
    > > >
    > > >
    > > > Note: I am not an immigration "lawyer" or consultant and these are my
    > > > personal opinions to be used as suggestions. For professional advice
    > > > please seek authorized counsel.
    > >
    > >

Bodza Bodza

My 2c:

I'm from Glasgow originally and compared with Toronto I can say the
following:
I'll rate things on a 1-10 scale (my subjective opinion) with 1 being
bad and 10 being good.

Jobs:
Salaries are about the same as in Glasgow.
Vacations are poor, you only get one or two weeks to start in Toronto
with three weeks after years of painful waiting.
In normal times, there are much more jobs in Toronto than in Glasgow,
but right now Glasgow has the edge.
Working conditions are better in Glasgow than in Toronto, where it is
the norm that you work longer hours than is stated on your contract.
If you do not do this you are passed over for promotion (at best) or
fired at worst.
Taxes are about the same although at higher scales you pay less in the
UK.
I'd say it's close but Glasgow has the slight edge here: Glasgow 6/10
Toronto 5/10

Housing:
House prices are about the same as in Glasgow as is rent. You get more
house for your money in Toronto although there are hidden "extras" you
don't think about. Toronto wins hands down here: Glasgow 5/10 Toronto
9/10

The system is different: In the UK everything is spelled out for you
and there are very few hidden extras, in Canada nothing is spelled out
for you and you have to check it for yourself. E.g. You go into a
store in Glasgow and an item says "9.99". It means you pay 9.99 at the
till. In Toronto the same item *could be* $9.99 or it could be $12.00
or whatever once the hidden extras are worked in. My preference is for
the UK system here: Glasgow: 10/10 Toronto 1/10


Parks/Recreation:
In both Toronto and Glasgow there are excellent
libraries/museums/parks/swimming pools/programs for mum & child etc.
There are very few things, however, that are *free* in Canada. e.g. in
Glasgow in many places there is free parking after 6pm or on Sundays.
You *never* have to pay to go to parks in Glasgow.
My preference (obviously) is not to pay: Glasgow 7/10 Toronto 5/10

Shopping: Groceries are a *little* bit cheaper in Glasgow for most
things with the exception of meat, which is half price in Toronto. The
variety of products on sale in a typical Toronto supermarket is
staggering and the quality is *much* better in Toronto. I side with
Toronto here (due to the variety of products): Toronto 10/10, Glasgow
5/10

Restaurants: Food is generally excellent and half price compared to
Glasgow. The same holds true whether it is the better restaurants or
fast-food. The variety is bewildering. Toronto wins hands-down.
Toronto 10/10, Glasgow 5/10

Prices of day to day living:
Car insurance is *very* expensive in Toronto. Glasgow 7/10 Toronto
4/10
Electricity/Gas Heating: You have to pay more because it costs more to
heat your (bigger) house in (colder) winter. Glasgow 5/10 Toronto 4/10
Gasoline costs: Gasoline is half price in Toronto but you drive more;
Glasgow 5/10 Toronto 5/10

Vacation prices:
Canada doesn't seem to have low cost airlines to anywhere you want to
go.
e.g. There is no easyjet or ryanair. It costs a couple hundred bucks
(minimum) PLUS tax to get from e.g. Toronto to Montreal. Forget about
flying for vacation to Vancouver. Perversely, it seems to be that
last-minute flying costs *more* in Canada than booking well in
advance. e.g. To fly last minute from Toronto to Houston cost $2000
per person. Nobody seems to travel there, unless it is on business.
You often hear "I was in Atlanta for business last weeks" but almost
*never* "I went to San Francisco for the weekend" (the equivalent of
"I went to Paris for the weekend".
I'd give Glasgow a 10/10 for this and Toronto 3/10.

Weather:
This is a tough one. I *hate* the winter in Toronto (it seems to be
six months long based on my subjective opinion that anything below 5C
is winter) whereas I *love* the summer. You can wear shorts from May
to Mid October and it hardly ever rains. After a few winters in
Toronto my opinion was: "Weather in the UK is better. At least you
don't freeze your buns off." I changed my mind after coming back: I
can put up with the snow to have the summer. On a side note, because
the summer is so good, you *don't need* to go on vacation. Maybe
that's why most Canadian's don't really care about vacations, because
they're effectively on vacation *every weekend* in the Summer and if
you're into winter stuff, there's skiing and whatever else.
Toronto wins: 7/10 Glasgow 2/10


Traffic:
Toronto has heavier traffic than Glasgow but lighter traffic than
London.
The roads in Toronto are *excellent*. Because of the excellent roads,
I say Toronto wins this one: Toronto 7/10 Glasgow 4/10

People:
This is also a tough one. Negatives: I don't like the way Canadians
say "How're you doing?" while walking past and don't even stop to hear
your reply, and the way nobody wants to let you in while you're
signalling to change lane on the highway (unlike Glasgow, where they
will literally stop traffic behind them to let you in) or the way it
is "feeding time at the zoo" in lineups (queues), Canadians are more
like third-worlders when it comes to lineups: they have no concept of
waiting in line, also the way they try to push on to the subway or an
elevator even before you've had time to get off, OR the way if you
park badly or someone is in a hurry they will sometimes SHOUT at you
from their cars. I also don't like the way Canadians boast about their
country being number one for the WRONG reasons and in a way that makes
you think "you're not saying your country is good, you're saying mine
SUCKS".
I also don't like the way you have to make an appointment to see your
friends instead of just dropping in, it's too formal. I also don't
like the fact that there is no pub culture. They have some bizarre
myths about themselvese.g. Canadians don't realize they're actually
poorer financially than most Western Europeans and cannot and will not
accept it even when they have it proved to them).
Positives:
Canadians are much less racist than people in Glasgow. Much more used
to dealing with people from other cultures although their ideas tend
to be 30 some years out of date. People tend to all go for lunch
together in Canada, not necesarilly the same as in the UK. When you
get to be friends with Canadians, oftentimes they are friends for
life, whereas friends in Glasgow are fly-by-nights. Canadian friends
will help you out, Glasgow friends will make excuses because they have
other things to do. e.g. (Unique excellent Canadian traditions: Paint
your house party or moving party or baby-shower)
Multicultural celebrations: It seems that almost every weekend in
Toronto there is a festival, Italian, Latin American, Carribean,
Chinese, you name it, it's excellent. In the job scene, Canadians will
give you the chance to start off at the bottom and from there on in,
it's up to you. In Glasgow you have to know someone or have gone to
the right school or whatever. Canadians are much more positive about
almost everything and will almost always take the opportunity to say
something positive about Canada. It comes through in the way they
greet each other: "How you doing?" "I'm doing excellent! Thank you."
In Glasgow if you said "I'm doing excellent!" They'd look at you funny
and say "Why, what's so good?".
I'd say Canadians win on this one but it's close: Toronto 6/10 Glasgow
5/10

In summary it's a real tough call to make but I'd say that what swings
it is the weather, the diversity of the place and the long-term
friends that comes out in favour of Toronto:
Toronto 7/10 Glasgow 5/10

George Prager

wow, I'll hand it to you - this is a superb post! Well thought out and
detailed.

I completely agree with you about the travel: I travel fairly often (though
more to Europe than to the U.S.) and even though it is "on business", it
always elicits sighs of surprise from colleagues and friends. Friends in the
U.K. and Europe take foreign travel for granted and - as you say - they do
enjoy better variety of flights and other transportation.

Ditto about the hidden costs; I simply do not understand why the GST/PST
cannot be included in the price. Not only is it misleading but leads to
people sort of lying to themselves, as in: "This suit cost $400" when in
fact they might have paid closer to $500 with the taxes.

However - and it is a *huge* "however" - there is an intagible ease to North
American life that is simply not there in the U.K. and in Europe. Since it's
intangible, I should not even try to describe it but I'll give it a quick
go: there is a "can-do" attitude, many public spaces are cleaner, service is
incomparably better almost everywhere, hot showers/baths, good plumbing a
given. But there's more: whenever I am in the U.K. (often - though mostly in
London) there is a strange feeling of heaviness in people, a plodding,
resigned look - something completely absent in Canada (or the U.S.) Like I
said - intangible and very subjective

Right about now, though, after four weeks of -10 degrees Celsius or less,
I'm ready for some good rainy U.K. weather

Btw, where did you have to pay to use a park in Toronto? Or do you mean
Provincial Parks...

George
"Bodza Bodza" wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
    > My 2c:
    > I'm from Glasgow originally and compared with Toronto I can say the
    > following:
    > I'll rate things on a 1-10 scale (my subjective opinion) with 1 being
    > bad and 10 being good.
    > Jobs:
    > Salaries are about the same as in Glasgow.
    > Vacations are poor, you only get one or two weeks to start in Toronto
    > with three weeks after years of painful waiting.
    > In normal times, there are much more jobs in Toronto than in Glasgow,
    > but right now Glasgow has the edge.
    > Working conditions are better in Glasgow than in Toronto, where it is
    > the norm that you work longer hours than is stated on your contract.
    > If you do not do this you are passed over for promotion (at best) or
    > fired at worst.
    > Taxes are about the same although at higher scales you pay less in the
    > UK.
    > I'd say it's close but Glasgow has the slight edge here: Glasgow 6/10
    > Toronto 5/10
    > Housing:
    > House prices are about the same as in Glasgow as is rent. You get more
    > house for your money in Toronto although there are hidden "extras" you
    > don't think about. Toronto wins hands down here: Glasgow 5/10 Toronto
    > 9/10
    > The system is different: In the UK everything is spelled out for you
    > and there are very few hidden extras, in Canada nothing is spelled out
    > for you and you have to check it for yourself. E.g. You go into a
    > store in Glasgow and an item says "9.99". It means you pay 9.99 at the
    > till. In Toronto the same item *could be* $9.99 or it could be $12.00
    > or whatever once the hidden extras are worked in. My preference is for
    > the UK system here: Glasgow: 10/10 Toronto 1/10
    > Parks/Recreation:
    > In both Toronto and Glasgow there are excellent
    > libraries/museums/parks/swimming pools/programs for mum & child etc.
    > There are very few things, however, that are *free* in Canada. e.g. in
    > Glasgow in many places there is free parking after 6pm or on Sundays.
    > You *never* have to pay to go to parks in Glasgow.
    > My preference (obviously) is not to pay: Glasgow 7/10 Toronto 5/10
    > Shopping: Groceries are a *little* bit cheaper in Glasgow for most
    > things with the exception of meat, which is half price in Toronto. The
    > variety of products on sale in a typical Toronto supermarket is
    > staggering and the quality is *much* better in Toronto. I side with
    > Toronto here (due to the variety of products): Toronto 10/10, Glasgow
    > 5/10
    > Restaurants: Food is generally excellent and half price compared to
    > Glasgow. The same holds true whether it is the better restaurants or
    > fast-food. The variety is bewildering. Toronto wins hands-down.
    > Toronto 10/10, Glasgow 5/10
    > Prices of day to day living:
    > Car insurance is *very* expensive in Toronto. Glasgow 7/10 Toronto
    > 4/10
    > Electricity/Gas Heating: You have to pay more because it costs more to
    > heat your (bigger) house in (colder) winter. Glasgow 5/10 Toronto 4/10
    > Gasoline costs: Gasoline is half price in Toronto but you drive more;
    > Glasgow 5/10 Toronto 5/10
    > Vacation prices:
    > Canada doesn't seem to have low cost airlines to anywhere you want to
    > go.
    > e.g. There is no easyjet or ryanair. It costs a couple hundred bucks
    > (minimum) PLUS tax to get from e.g. Toronto to Montreal. Forget about
    > flying for vacation to Vancouver. Perversely, it seems to be that
    > last-minute flying costs *more* in Canada than booking well in
    > advance. e.g. To fly last minute from Toronto to Houston cost $2000
    > per person. Nobody seems to travel there, unless it is on business.
    > You often hear "I was in Atlanta for business last weeks" but almost
    > *never* "I went to San Francisco for the weekend" (the equivalent of
    > "I went to Paris for the weekend".
    > I'd give Glasgow a 10/10 for this and Toronto 3/10.
    > Weather:
    > This is a tough one. I *hate* the winter in Toronto (it seems to be
    > six months long based on my subjective opinion that anything below 5C
    > is winter) whereas I *love* the summer. You can wear shorts from May
    > to Mid October and it hardly ever rains. After a few winters in
    > Toronto my opinion was: "Weather in the UK is better. At least you
    > don't freeze your buns off." I changed my mind after coming back: I
    > can put up with the snow to have the summer. On a side note, because
    > the summer is so good, you *don't need* to go on vacation. Maybe
    > that's why most Canadian's don't really care about vacations, because
    > they're effectively on vacation *every weekend* in the Summer and if
    > you're into winter stuff, there's skiing and whatever else.
    > Toronto wins: 7/10 Glasgow 2/10
    > Traffic:
    > Toronto has heavier traffic than Glasgow but lighter traffic than
    > London.
    > The roads in Toronto are *excellent*. Because of the excellent roads,
    > I say Toronto wins this one: Toronto 7/10 Glasgow 4/10
    > People:
    > This is also a tough one. Negatives: I don't like the way Canadians
    > say "How're you doing?" while walking past and don't even stop to hear
    > your reply, and the way nobody wants to let you in while you're
    > signalling to change lane on the highway (unlike Glasgow, where they
    > will literally stop traffic behind them to let you in) or the way it
    > is "feeding time at the zoo" in lineups (queues), Canadians are more
    > like third-worlders when it comes to lineups: they have no concept of
    > waiting in line, also the way they try to push on to the subway or an
    > elevator even before you've had time to get off, OR the way if you
    > park badly or someone is in a hurry they will sometimes SHOUT at you
    > from their cars. I also don't like the way Canadians boast about their
    > country being number one for the WRONG reasons and in a way that makes
    > you think "you're not saying your country is good, you're saying mine
    > SUCKS".
    > I also don't like the way you have to make an appointment to see your
    > friends instead of just dropping in, it's too formal. I also don't
    > like the fact that there is no pub culture. They have some bizarre
    > myths about themselvese.g. Canadians don't realize they're actually
    > poorer financially than most Western Europeans and cannot and will not
    > accept it even when they have it proved to them).
    > Positives:
    > Canadians are much less racist than people in Glasgow. Much more used
    > to dealing with people from other cultures although their ideas tend
    > to be 30 some years out of date. People tend to all go for lunch
    > together in Canada, not necesarilly the same as in the UK. When you
    > get to be friends with Canadians, oftentimes they are friends for
    > life, whereas friends in Glasgow are fly-by-nights. Canadian friends
    > will help you out, Glasgow friends will make excuses because they have
    > other things to do. e.g. (Unique excellent Canadian traditions: Paint
    > your house party or moving party or baby-shower)
    > Multicultural celebrations: It seems that almost every weekend in
    > Toronto there is a festival, Italian, Latin American, Carribean,
    > Chinese, you name it, it's excellent. In the job scene, Canadians will
    > give you the chance to start off at the bottom and from there on in,
    > it's up to you. In Glasgow you have to know someone or have gone to
    > the right school or whatever. Canadians are much more positive about
    > almost everything and will almost always take the opportunity to say
    > something positive about Canada. It comes through in the way they
    > greet each other: "How you doing?" "I'm doing excellent! Thank you."
    > In Glasgow if you said "I'm doing excellent!" They'd look at you funny
    > and say "Why, what's so good?".
    > I'd say Canadians win on this one but it's close: Toronto 6/10 Glasgow
    > 5/10
    > In summary it's a real tough call to make but I'd say that what swings
    > it is the weather, the diversity of the place and the long-term
    > friends that comes out in favour of Toronto:
    > Toronto 7/10 Glasgow 5/10

Bodza Bodza

"George Prager" wrote:
    > cannot be included in the price. Not only is it misleading but leads to
    > people sort of lying to themselves, as in: "This suit cost $400" when in
    > fact they might have paid closer to $500 with the taxes.

Yes! I often think to myself "How the hell is anyone getting by?"

    > I should not even try to describe it but I'll give it a quick
    > go: there is a "can-do" attitude,

Definitely. People are looking for opportunity in every situation
rather than problems it's "What can I gain from this?" rather than
"How can I lose from this?"

    >many public spaces are cleaner,

Yes.

    >service is incomparably better almost everywhere,

Yes, but be careful. Pre-sales service is better. Post-sales service
is much worse. Once they have your money, there's no way in hell
you're getting it back.

    >hot showers/baths, good plumbing a given.

This is definitely true.

    >But there's more: whenever I am in the U.K. (often - though mostly in
    > London) there is a strange feeling of heaviness in people, a plodding,
    > resigned look - something completely absent in Canada (or the U.S.) Like I
    > said - intangible and very subjective

True.

    >
    > Right about now, though, after four weeks of -10 degrees Celsius or less,
    > I'm ready for some good rainy U.K. weather

No. Really, you're not. Gimme the cold and the bright sunlight anyday.

    > Btw, where did you have to pay to use a park in Toronto? Or do you mean
    > Provincial Parks...

No, I don't. I'm stretching it to say Toronto, because it's in
Brampton, but I more-or-less call Brampton part of Toronto although
strictly speaking....

Heart lake park in Brampton costs money to get into and so does one of
the other parks in Brampton which has a beach in it.
Granted it's not much money, like $4 or something, but considering you
don't even have to pay for parking in many places where I come from,
it's galling to have to pay to get into a park.

Hot Ice

"George Prager" wrote in message news:...
    > purely out of curiosity:
    >
    > what would you say is the single best aspect of living in Canada as compared
    > to the U.K.?
    > Not disagreeing with you, simply curious
    >
    > "hot ice" wrote in message

I would agree with all the info that the previous posters presented.
More "space", more things to do (especially if you are an outdoorsy
type here in Vancouver) et al. One other thing for me, it is the
proximity to the US market, I am an IT consultant and most of my
business is from the SF Bay area and Washington and the location is
very convenient. Generally I find US companies are more comfortable
dealing with North American based organizations.

Most of all, like some other posters pointed out, it is something
very subjective and cannot be nailed down into a few points. Having
lived in Vancouver for a while now, I start missing Vancouver the
moment I leave it. I like it very much here. BTW Vancouver is one of
the favorite destinations(not sure if it is #1) for British emigres
and expats and it is not uncommon at all to hear a Birmingham accent,
a liverpool accent, or a cockney slant as easily as one would a
chinese or indian accent.

You may want to check this site out: http://www.vancouver.hm/ (a
british expat living in Vancouver for a long time)