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'4131 College and Other Vocational Instructors' advice please

'4131 College and Other Vocational Instructors' advice please

Old Jan 6th 2010, 8:27 pm
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Default '4131 College and Other Vocational Instructors' advice please

Hello all,

I am currently in the process of starting to apply for a PR visa via the skilled worker (class 1) route. I have one major concern though. I am hoping to apply as a '4131 College and Other Vocational Instructors' which is one of the jobs on the list. My job at the moment is as a 'Digital Arts and Media Technician' at a university. My day to day duties include teaching workshops and lessons, giving one to one tutorials and inductions, creating and preparing lesson resources etc, as well as technical duties and supporting lecturers.

I don't however have a formal teaching qualification (Only have internal 'demonstrator training' from work, which wasn't certified). So am I likely to fit into this category? The thing that is worrying me is the lack of a formal teaching qualification and not doing any summative assessment (Do some formative assessment though and feed this back to the lecturers). I would certainly argue that the majority of my job is 'instructing' though, but is that enough?

My job before that also included instructing as it included elements of teaching video editing, demonstrating equipment etc. How do I prove that I am instructor? If it came down to job references I feel that both my current and previous employer would agree to put emphasis on the instruction aspects of the jobs.

Anyone got any help, suggestions or confidence building words?
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Old Jan 6th 2010, 9:30 pm
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Default Re: '4131 College and Other Vocational Instructors' advice please

Originally Posted by Messiah Khan
Hello all,

I am currently in the process of starting to apply for a PR visa via the skilled worker (class 1) route. I have one major concern though. I am hoping to apply as a '4131 College and Other Vocational Instructors' which is one of the jobs on the list. My job at the moment is as a 'Digital Arts and Media Technician' at a university. My day to day duties include teaching workshops and lessons, giving one to one tutorials and inductions, creating and preparing lesson resources etc, as well as technical duties and supporting lecturers.

I don't however have a formal teaching qualification (Only have internal 'demonstrator training' from work, which wasn't certified). So am I likely to fit into this category? The thing that is worrying me is the lack of a formal teaching qualification and not doing any summative assessment (Do some formative assessment though and feed this back to the lecturers). I would certainly argue that the majority of my job is 'instructing' though, but is that enough?

My job before that also included instructing as it included elements of teaching video editing, demonstrating equipment etc. How do I prove that I am instructor? If it came down to job references I feel that both my current and previous employer would agree to put emphasis on the instruction aspects of the jobs.

Anyone got any help, suggestions or confidence building words?
I guess this is my opinion so don't take it as gospel.

I think you would have a hard job convincing a immigration officer that you would fit in that category. I suspect you would either need a teaching qualification (PGCE or Cert Ed) or a degree/diploma etc in your field of teaching which i guess is media/IT

I am employed full time as an Engineer for a large oil company but during nights, I do a spot of lecturing at my local college and to recognize college instructor in there you need cert ed or pgce.

Might be different at other places I don't know but thats my opinion.

I wish you the best of luck.

bib.
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Old Jan 6th 2010, 9:35 pm
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Default Re: '4131 College and Other Vocational Instructors' advice please

Originally Posted by Bibendum
or a degree/diploma etc in your field of teaching which i guess is media/IT
Thanks for your reply. Do you mean a degree in teaching, or a degree in the relevant subject? If it is the latter, I have a degree (BA Hons) in a related subject.
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Old Jan 6th 2010, 9:42 pm
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Default Re: '4131 College and Other Vocational Instructors' advice please

Originally Posted by Messiah Khan
Thanks for your reply. Do you mean a degree in teaching, or a degree in the relevant subject? If it is the latter, I have a degree (BA Hons) in a related subject.
I meant a degree in a related subject, so in your case if you had a degree in digital arts or IT or something like that, i think that would be acceptable.

However in the college where I work, its mandatory to have a certificate in education or a Postgraduate certificate in education to be classed as a lecturer/instructor.
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Old Jan 6th 2010, 9:57 pm
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Default Re: '4131 College and Other Vocational Instructors' advice please

Originally Posted by Bibendum
I meant a degree in a related subject, so in your case if you had a degree in digital arts or IT or something like that, i think that would be acceptable.

However in the college where I work, its mandatory to have a certificate in education or a Postgraduate certificate in education to be classed as a lecturer/instructor.
Thanks. Yeah my degree is in computer animation, so covers most of the skills I use throughout my job. Its looking like a very grey area. All of the technicians in our school of the university are classed as technicians/demonstrators. A couple have PGCEs, but certainly not the majority, and as I say, I would certainly consider myself to fit within the 4131 category. I just need to convince an immigration officer that I do. It feels very risky to try it when there are the fees etc at stake.
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Old Jan 6th 2010, 11:58 pm
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Default Re: '4131 College and Other Vocational Instructors' advice please

To fit into this category, the HRSDC website states that you need the following:

"Main duties
College and other vocational instructors perform some or all of the following duties:
•Teach students using a systematic plan of lectures, demonstrations, discussion groups, laboratory work, shop sessions, seminars, case studies, field assignments and independent or group projects
•Develop curriculum and prepare teaching materials and outlines for courses
•Prepare, administer and mark tests and papers to evaluate students' progress
•Advise students on program curricula and career decisions
•Provide individualized tutorial/remedial instructions
•Supervise independent or group projects, field placements, laboratory work or hands-on training
•Supervise teaching assistants
•May provide consultation services to government, business and other organizations
•May serve on committees concerned with matters such as budgets, curriculum revision, and course and diploma requirements.
•These instructors specialize in particular fields or areas of study such as visual arts, dental hygiene, welding, engineering technology, policing, computer software, management and early childhood education.

Employment requirements
•A bachelor's degree, a college diploma or demonstrated expertise in the field of instruction is required.
•A master's degree in the field of instruction may be required.
•A certificate, diploma or degree in adult education may be required.
•For instructors of trades, completion of apprenticeship training and industry or trade certification are required. Additional courses in teaching or a provincial teaching certificate may be required."

Do you feel your main duties fit into the above list?

Last edited by AmyDavid; Jan 7th 2010 at 12:03 am.
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Old Jan 7th 2010, 7:12 am
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Default Re: '4131 College and Other Vocational Instructors' advice please

Originally Posted by AmyDavid
To fit into this category, the HRSDC website states that you need the following:

"Main duties
College and other vocational instructors perform some or all of the following duties:
•Teach students using a systematic plan of lectures, demonstrations, discussion groups, laboratory work, shop sessions, seminars, case studies, field assignments and independent or group projects
•Develop curriculum and prepare teaching materials and outlines for courses
•Prepare, administer and mark tests and papers to evaluate students' progress
•Advise students on program curricula and career decisions
•Provide individualized tutorial/remedial instructions
•Supervise independent or group projects, field placements, laboratory work or hands-on training
•Supervise teaching assistants
•May provide consultation services to government, business and other organizations
•May serve on committees concerned with matters such as budgets, curriculum revision, and course and diploma requirements.
•These instructors specialize in particular fields or areas of study such as visual arts, dental hygiene, welding, engineering technology, policing, computer software, management and early childhood education.

Employment requirements
•A bachelor's degree, a college diploma or demonstrated expertise in the field of instruction is required.
•A master's degree in the field of instruction may be required.
•A certificate, diploma or degree in adult education may be required.
•For instructors of trades, completion of apprenticeship training and industry or trade certification are required. Additional courses in teaching or a provincial teaching certificate may be required."

Do you feel your main duties fit into the above list?
Yeah, personally I do. I have highlighted the ones i feel I do in my job in red. I just need to figure out how to strengthen the evidence of my case for an immigration officer. It's my lack of formal teaching qualification that is worrying me, not the day to day duties. Do you think job references from linemanagers and heads of departments would be enough?
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Old Jan 7th 2010, 9:16 am
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Default Re: '4131 College and Other Vocational Instructors' advice please

I found a link to a very interesting document on another forum;

http://www.cic.gc.ca/EnGLIsh/resourc...p/op06-eng.pdf

It basically is the marking criteria for Immigration officers. It certainly gives me some hope, although it still is very much borderline. Hopefully this document may help others.

award points only if the applicant has performed the actions described in the lead statement
of the particular NOC description and has performed at least a substantial number of the
duties described in the “Main Duties” summary – including all the essential duties (R80(3));
Note: Neither the NOC nor the Regulations distinguish between “essential” and “non-essential” duties or
provide guidance as to what constitutes a “substantial number”. This is left as a matter for assessment
on a case-by-case basis. If officers have concerns about whether or not the applicant has carried out
“a substantial number of the main duties…including all of the essential duties,” they should give the
applicant an opportunity to respond to these concerns.
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Old Jan 7th 2010, 9:36 am
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Default Re: '4131 College and Other Vocational Instructors' advice please

Hi
I have applied under the NOC category of 4131. My job description covers all of the items listed in the NOC but I am a corporate trainer / management consultant. I do not hold any teaching qualification, however I do hold a degree in a relevant subject and have several years experience.
In order to support my application I have included references from my employers which support that I have experience in this catagory and so far this has been fine.
We are at the second stage at the moment awaiting approval and our medical requests so I can't confirm for sure that this is definetely enough. But so far so good, as long as your role duties and references matches the NOC that should be sufficient.

Good Luck
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Old Jan 7th 2010, 9:50 am
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Default Re: '4131 College and Other Vocational Instructors' advice please

I think you should be fine applying under 4131. There are still tutors/instructors out there in colleges without cert eds/PGCE's but they are expected to be working towards them as this is a UK requirement....note I said 'in colleges'. 4131 doesn't demand a cert ed or PGCE and you seem to have met the main duties and have a qualification so I'd go for it!
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Old Jan 7th 2010, 10:58 am
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Default Re: '4131 College and Other Vocational Instructors' advice please

Thanks The Normans & Northernlass1, that has given me a little confidence. I think this is going to be the weak point of my application, so I will really need to back up the evidence here.

The Normans, what evidence did you send in, only job references or anything else? If you can get through that part of the process on job references, then I feel I will be ok as I have great working relations with my line manager and senior lectureres and I think they would vouch for me.
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Old Jan 7th 2010, 11:15 am
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Default Re: '4131 College and Other Vocational Instructors' advice please

I sent in references, copies of contracts, copies of job descriptions (showing where the main duties of my job matched that of the NOC...all of these were provided by HR departments), copies of P45's/P60's that I had, copies of pay slips plus copies of all quals that I had and sealed transcripts from the Uni's....so basically any evidence I could find! Then added a cover note explaining how I had awarded myself the points for work experience.
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Old Jan 7th 2010, 11:27 am
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Default Re: '4131 College and Other Vocational Instructors' advice please

Thanks Northernlass. I'm not even sure what my contract or job description says about my duties. Will have to look that one up. My job role is that dynamic and flexible that it covers just about everything.

See you are based in Durham. I used to live in Newton Aycliffe, but I'm up in Newcastle now. You nearly at the end of the process then?
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Old Jan 7th 2010, 11:57 am
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Default Re: '4131 College and Other Vocational Instructors' advice please

Originally Posted by Messiah Khan
My job role is that dynamic and flexible that it covers just about everything.
As are most jobs in this country unfortunately, that's what makes it difficult, especially with vocations relating to IT or other technical subjects.
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Old Jan 7th 2010, 12:24 pm
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Default Re: '4131 College and Other Vocational Instructors' advice please

Are you hoping to pursue college instructor jobs when you get to Canada? I would be interested to hear about your research or other's experience in being able to fulfil that role here.

I know "regular" teachers mostly find it incredibly difficult to get into teaching here due to the requirement for a four-year degree, the unions and seniority. I'm wondering if other lecturers have faced the same difficulties?

If, however, you are just using it as route to actually get into Canada, then do something else, well, good luck to you regardless
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