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[lawyer/professional opinion please] 75 Points question!

[lawyer/professional opinion please] 75 Points question!

Old Jan 14th 2003, 12:46 pm
  #1  
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Default [lawyer/professional opinion please] 75 Points question!

Apologies for hogging up the board of late!

My question is this:

When I have taken the TEF (which i assume I need for proof of French skills) I will have the following:

1 Education 20
2 Language Ability 24
3 Work Experience 21
4 Age 10
5 Arranged Employment 0
6 Adaptability 0

Total Score 75

The language i.e. french moderate will be achieved by intense study over the next few months.

I understand under the new rules, there is less flexibilty as to accept/reject. However, I feel "nervous" applying with bang on 75 points. Do you have any insight/knowledge of people applying with 75 points being accepted/rejected.

Many kind thanks in advance again - this is much appreciated.

Rob
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Old Jan 14th 2003, 4:17 pm
  #2  
xng
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Default Re: [lawyer/professional opinion please] 75 Points question!

First of all, going from 0 to moderate proficiency in just a few months is almost impossible for all 4 skills especially in speaking and in listening. I assume that you do not live in a french environment.

The misleading "basic proficiency" required by cic equates to low moderate proficiency in the TEF tests. And the so-called "moderate proficiency" required by cic equates to high moderate proficiency in the TEF tests which is close to high proficiency.

French has more grammar rules than english and other idiosyncrasies which I will not elaborate further. Of course, you can always try and learn the truth the hard way yourself. Bon chance !
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Old Jan 14th 2003, 9:25 pm
  #3  
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I have put 0 points down for language ability as I have TEF certificate, which I know plenty about. Having studied French for 5 years in the past I am well aware of what awaits. I am also aware of institutions offering intensive courses, where to take the examination, costs etc. On top of that I'm academically excellent.

So my question about the 75 points stands - can someone please provide their useful opinion.

Many thanks all,

Rob
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Old Jan 14th 2003, 9:26 pm
  #4  
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(above should read have no TEF certificate as yet therefore 0 points language ability) oopsie!
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Old Jan 14th 2003, 10:23 pm
  #5  
xng
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Je suis desolee. J'ai pense que vous n'etudie jamais de francais !
Bon chance.

My keyboard doesn't have those accent signs.
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Old Jan 14th 2003, 10:25 pm
  #6  
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this board is for people to be helpful. end of topic. dont reply to my next topic- i am genuinely seeking advice and help here, not debacling by a smartass. i have no time for that. change your language settings for accents.
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Old Jan 15th 2003, 12:13 am
  #7  
pkjmet
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Default Re: [lawyer/professional opinion please] 75 Points question!

xng wrote in message news:...
    > First of all, going from 0 to moderate proficiency in just a few months
    > is almost impossible for all 4 skills especially in speaking and in
    > listening. I assume that you do not live in a french environment.
    >
    > The misleading "basic proficiency" required by cic equates to low
    > moderate proficiency in the TEF tests. And the so-called "moderate
    > proficiency" required by cic equates to high moderate proficiency in the
    > TEF tests which is close to high proficiency.
    >
    > French has more grammar rules than english and other idiosyncrasies
    > which I will not elaborate further. Of course, you can always try and
    > learn the truth the hard way yourself. Bon chance !

I agree with xng on his observations. If you are attempting to acheive
a moderate level you would be better of moving to France for a few
years. On the other hand you may find that you could obtain a
Certificate de Selection de Quebec (CSQ) if you have a basic knowledge
of French. All in all it is a long stretch to get 75 points form what
you have an i would not recommend it unless you have a real aptitude
for languages.

Jim Metcalfe , Consultant and foremr visa officer
 
Old Jan 15th 2003, 12:43 am
  #8  
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Many thanks Jim, I hadn't heard of the Certificate de Selection de Quebec (CSQ) before.

Regards,

Rob
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Old Jan 15th 2003, 4:43 am
  #9  
Berto Volpentesta
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Default Re: [lawyer/professional opinion please] 75 Points question!

Good luck with your French course. Unless you are good with languages I
would think that obtaining high proficiency (from no proficiency) would take
quite some time.

I note you have given yourself full marks for language in both English and
French.

--
All responses IMHO and no one else's.

Berto Volpentesta
Member OPIC, Director OPIC

Sidhu & Volpentesta Inc.
Serving People Around the World Since 1991
www.svcanada.com

321-3701 Chesswood Dr., Toronto, ON M3J 2P6
Canada
_________________________________________

Berto Volpentesta
+1(416) 398 8882 Office
+1(416) 787 0612 Office 2
+1(416) 892 2916 Cell
e-mail: [email protected]
ICQ#: 50212503
SMS ICQ): +278314250212503





"robfromuk" wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
    > Apologies for hogging up the board of late!
    > My question is this:
    > When I have taken the TEF (which i assume I need for proof of French
    > skills) I will have the following:
    > 1 Education 20
    > 2 Language Ability 24
    > 3 Work Experience 21
    > 4 Age 10
    > 5 Arranged Employment 0
    > 6 Adaptability 0
    > Total Score 75
    > The language i.e. french moderate will be achieved by intense study over
    > the next few months.
    > I understand under the new rules, there is less flexibilty as to
    > accept/reject. However, I feel "nervous" applying with bang on 75
    > points. Do you have any insight/knowledge of people applying with 75
    > points being accepted/rejected.
    > Many kind thanks in advance again - this is much appreciated.
    > Rob
    > --
    > Posted via http://britishexpats.com
 
Old Jan 15th 2003, 5:09 am
  #10  
The Wizzard
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Posts: n/a
Default Re: [lawyer/professional opinion please] 75 Points question!

I think you are missing the point here. It's not going to 0 points to 4 as
in going from not being able to speak french to learning it. It is that fact
that witohut the TEF score you can't easily prove your french ability, so
Rob is saying he already has proficient ability in French but no way to
prove it without taking the TEF, he can't just write a letter saying i can
speak french honest please believe me. However the TEF tests in the UK are
only run in certain locations infrequently and are expensive so there is no
point going to all the hassle and cost of taking them to prove your French
level if your final points total is going to get rejected. So his original
question stands, if you have 75 points including the 4 for french if he has
the TEF to prove that level, then will that application be less favoured
than say one with 76 or 77, or is it a case of once you reach the pass mark
you have qualified and then will only be refused if the officer thinks you
are especially unsuited to Canada? As in they will have to use negative
discretion.

Drew



"Berto Volpentesta" wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
    > Good luck with your French course. Unless you are good with languages I
    > would think that obtaining high proficiency (from no proficiency) would
take
    > quite some time.
    > I note you have given yourself full marks for language in both English and
    > French.
    > --
    > All responses IMHO and no one else's.
    > Berto Volpentesta
    > Member OPIC, Director OPIC
    > Sidhu & Volpentesta Inc.
    > Serving People Around the World Since 1991
    > www.svcanada.com
    > 321-3701 Chesswood Dr., Toronto, ON M3J 2P6
    > Canada
    > _________________________________________
    > Berto Volpentesta
    > +1(416) 398 8882 Office
    > +1(416) 787 0612 Office 2
    > +1(416) 892 2916 Cell
    > e-mail: [email protected]
    > ICQ#: 50212503
    > SMS ICQ): +278314250212503
    > "robfromuk" wrote in message
    > news:[email protected]...
    > >
    > > Apologies for hogging up the board of late!
    > >
    > > My question is this:
    > >
    > > When I have taken the TEF (which i assume I need for proof of French
    > > skills) I will have the following:
    > >
    > > 1 Education 20
    > > 2 Language Ability 24
    > > 3 Work Experience 21
    > > 4 Age 10
    > > 5 Arranged Employment 0
    > > 6 Adaptability 0
    > >
    > > Total Score 75
    > >
    > > The language i.e. french moderate will be achieved by intense study over
    > > the next few months.
    > >
    > > I understand under the new rules, there is less flexibilty as to
    > > accept/reject. However, I feel "nervous" applying with bang on 75
    > > points. Do you have any insight/knowledge of people applying with 75
    > > points being accepted/rejected.
    > >
    > > Many kind thanks in advance again - this is much appreciated.
    > >
    > > Rob
    > >
    > > --
    > > Posted via http://britishexpats.com
 
Old Jan 15th 2003, 6:50 am
  #11  
Berto Volpentesta
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Default Re: [lawyer/professional opinion please] 75 Points question!

I see. Sorry.

Firstly, 75 is the passmark. A person with 75 is just as good as a person
with anything higher. So that should not be a problem. My concern would be
that if the mark goes higher by regulation and if it were to be applied
retroactively, then of course he would be out of luck. (but can anyone
really see the passmark go higher?)

The reason I mention French is that he is giving himself 8 for French. To
be clear, this indicates a high proficiency. A moderate proficiency would
be something less and that would mean his score would be below.

The visa post would want proof of language proficiency. Absolute proof is
the IELTS for English and the TEF from French.

If those are not presented, it is generally difficult to demonstrate ability
at all the levels according to the benchmarks whether in English or in
French.

Written evidence may include letters and evaluations from employers,
educators, transcripts for courses in the language arts, and any other
eveidence that could demonstrate the abilities.

As you can imagine weaving this information together so it demonstrates high
proficiency can be quite a chore. (ie. the tests are a better way to go)


--
All responses IMHO and no one else's.

Berto Volpentesta
Member OPIC, Director OPIC

Sidhu & Volpentesta Inc.
Serving People Around the World Since 1991
www.svcanada.com

321-3701 Chesswood Dr., Toronto, ON M3J 2P6
Canada
_________________________________________

Berto Volpentesta
+1(416) 398 8882 Office
+1(416) 787 0612 Office 2
+1(416) 892 2916 Cell
e-mail: [email protected]
ICQ#: 50212503
SMS ICQ): +278314250212503





"The Wizzard" wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
    > I think you are missing the point here. It's not going to 0 points to 4 as
    > in going from not being able to speak french to learning it. It is that
fact
    > that witohut the TEF score you can't easily prove your french ability, so
    > Rob is saying he already has proficient ability in French but no way to
    > prove it without taking the TEF, he can't just write a letter saying i can
    > speak french honest please believe me. However the TEF tests in the UK are
    > only run in certain locations infrequently and are expensive so there is
no
    > point going to all the hassle and cost of taking them to prove your French
    > level if your final points total is going to get rejected. So his original
    > question stands, if you have 75 points including the 4 for french if he
has
    > the TEF to prove that level, then will that application be less favoured
    > than say one with 76 or 77, or is it a case of once you reach the pass
mark
    > you have qualified and then will only be refused if the officer thinks you
    > are especially unsuited to Canada? As in they will have to use negative
    > discretion.
    > Drew
    > "Berto Volpentesta" wrote in message
    > news:[email protected]...
    > > Good luck with your French course. Unless you are good with languages I
    > > would think that obtaining high proficiency (from no proficiency) would
    > take
    > > quite some time.
    > >
    > > I note you have given yourself full marks for language in both English
and
    > > French.
    > >
    > > --
    > > All responses IMHO and no one else's.
    > >
    > > Berto Volpentesta
    > > Member OPIC, Director OPIC
    > >
    > > Sidhu & Volpentesta Inc.
    > > Serving People Around the World Since 1991
    > > www.svcanada.com
    > >
    > > 321-3701 Chesswood Dr., Toronto, ON M3J 2P6
    > > Canada
    > > _________________________________________
    > >
    > > Berto Volpentesta
    > > +1(416) 398 8882 Office
    > > +1(416) 787 0612 Office 2
    > > +1(416) 892 2916 Cell
    > > e-mail: [email protected]
    > > ICQ#: 50212503
    > > SMS ICQ): +278314250212503
    > >
    > >
    > >
    > >
    > >
    > > "robfromuk" wrote in message
    > > news:[email protected]...
    > > >
    > > > Apologies for hogging up the board of late!
    > > >
    > > > My question is this:
    > > >
    > > > When I have taken the TEF (which i assume I need for proof of French
    > > > skills) I will have the following:
    > > >
    > > > 1 Education 20
    > > > 2 Language Ability 24
    > > > 3 Work Experience 21
    > > > 4 Age 10
    > > > 5 Arranged Employment 0
    > > > 6 Adaptability 0
    > > >
    > > > Total Score 75
    > > >
    > > > The language i.e. french moderate will be achieved by intense study
over
    > > > the next few months.
    > > >
    > > > I understand under the new rules, there is less flexibilty as to
    > > > accept/reject. However, I feel "nervous" applying with bang on 75
    > > > points. Do you have any insight/knowledge of people applying with 75
    > > > points being accepted/rejected.
    > > >
    > > > Many kind thanks in advance again - this is much appreciated.
    > > >
    > > > Rob
    > > >
    > > > --
    > > > Posted via http://britishexpats.com
    > >
    > >
 
Old Jan 15th 2003, 6:54 am
  #12  
Jim Humphries
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Default Re: [lawyer/professional opinion please] 75 Points question!

Again, the points counted here for French are very iffy and depend upon
great improvement from a relatively short course.
--
Jim Humphries, former visa officer
"The Wizzard" wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
    > I think you are missing the point here. It's not going to 0 points to 4 as
    > in going from not being able to speak french to learning it. It is that
fact
    > that witohut the TEF score you can't easily prove your french ability, so
    > Rob is saying he already has proficient ability in French but no way to
    > prove it without taking the TEF, he can't just write a letter saying i can
    > speak french honest please believe me. However the TEF tests in the UK are
    > only run in certain locations infrequently and are expensive so there is
no
    > point going to all the hassle and cost of taking them to prove your French
    > level if your final points total is going to get rejected. So his original
    > question stands, if you have 75 points including the 4 for french if he
has
    > the TEF to prove that level, then will that application be less favoured
    > than say one with 76 or 77, or is it a case of once you reach the pass
mark
    > you have qualified and then will only be refused if the officer thinks you
    > are especially unsuited to Canada? As in they will have to use negative
    > discretion.
    > Drew
    > "Berto Volpentesta" wrote in message
    > news:[email protected]...
    > > Good luck with your French course. Unless you are good with languages I
    > > would think that obtaining high proficiency (from no proficiency) would
    > take
    > > quite some time.
    > >
    > > I note you have given yourself full marks for language in both English
and
    > > French.
    > >
    > > --
    > > All responses IMHO and no one else's.
    > >
    > > Berto Volpentesta
    > > Member OPIC, Director OPIC
    > >
    > > Sidhu & Volpentesta Inc.
    > > Serving People Around the World Since 1991
    > > www.svcanada.com
    > >
    > > 321-3701 Chesswood Dr., Toronto, ON M3J 2P6
    > > Canada
    > > _________________________________________
    > >
    > > Berto Volpentesta
    > > +1(416) 398 8882 Office
    > > +1(416) 787 0612 Office 2
    > > +1(416) 892 2916 Cell
    > > e-mail: [email protected]
    > > ICQ#: 50212503
    > > SMS ICQ): +278314250212503
    > >
    > >
    > >
    > >
    > >
    > > "robfromuk" wrote in message
    > > news:[email protected]...
    > > >
    > > > Apologies for hogging up the board of late!
    > > >
    > > > My question is this:
    > > >
    > > > When I have taken the TEF (which i assume I need for proof of French
    > > > skills) I will have the following:
    > > >
    > > > 1 Education 20
    > > > 2 Language Ability 24
    > > > 3 Work Experience 21
    > > > 4 Age 10
    > > > 5 Arranged Employment 0
    > > > 6 Adaptability 0
    > > >
    > > > Total Score 75
    > > >
    > > > The language i.e. french moderate will be achieved by intense study
over
    > > > the next few months.
    > > >
    > > > I understand under the new rules, there is less flexibilty as to
    > > > accept/reject. However, I feel "nervous" applying with bang on 75
    > > > points. Do you have any insight/knowledge of people applying with 75
    > > > points being accepted/rejected.
    > > >
    > > > Many kind thanks in advance again - this is much appreciated.
    > > >
    > > > Rob
    > > >
    > > > --
    > > > Posted via http://britishexpats.com
    > >
    > >
 
Old Jan 15th 2003, 10:16 am
  #13  
Just Joined
Thread Starter
 
Joined: Aug 2002
Posts: 27
robfromuk is an unknown quantity at this point
Default

http://www.cic.gc.ca/english/skilled/qual-3.html states:

Second Official Language

Speaking
Listening
Reading
Writing

High proficiency
2
2
2
2

Moderate proficiency
2
2
2
2

Basic proficiency
1
1
1
1

Please Note: You can score a maximum of only two points in total for basic-level proficiency.

No proficiency
0
0
0
0

I was aiming at scoring in the moderate area not high

As previously stated, I do have proficiency in French, just none that is TEF tested, and is therefore non-admissable in my application.

Regards,

Rob
robfromuk is offline  
Old Jan 15th 2003, 10:37 pm
  #14  
Tonnie
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Default Re: [lawyer/professional opinion please] 75 Points question!

On Wed, 15 Jan 2003 11:23:17 +0000, xng
wrote:

    >Je suis desolee. J'ai pense que vous n'etudie jamais de francais !
    >Bon chance.

apparemment vous non plus....

--
Purranoia: the feeling that your cat is up to something.
 
Old Jan 16th 2003, 6:22 am
  #15  
Pajmera
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Default Re: [lawyer/professional opinion please] 75 Points question!

Hi Instread of learning French and getting points under federal
program have you looked at Quebec immigration. look at this site:
www.canadaimmigrationvisa.com/quebec.html

Quebec needs only conversation level of French and no test necessary.

Thanks,

Prashant Ajmera


robfromuk wrote in message news:...
    > Apologies for hogging up the board of late!
    >
    > My question is this:
    >
    > When I have taken the TEF (which i assume I need for proof of French
    > skills) I will have the following:
    >
    > 1 Education 20
    > 2 Language Ability 24
    > 3 Work Experience 21
    > 4 Age 10
    > 5 Arranged Employment 0
    > 6 Adaptability 0
    >
    > Total Score 75
    >
    > The language i.e. french moderate will be achieved by intense study over
    > the next few months.
    >
    > I understand under the new rules, there is less flexibilty as to
    > accept/reject. However, I feel "nervous" applying with bang on 75
    > points. Do you have any insight/knowledge of people applying with 75
    > points being accepted/rejected.
    >
    > Many kind thanks in advance again - this is much appreciated.
    >
    > Rob
 

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