lendusaquid

Hi Everyone
Well, we finally got the house near Sumeg, with lots to do, not much time and on a tight budget!
I drove from the UK a couple of weeks ago via Amsterdam (thanks Peter for the info posted on another thread for the UK registered EU 12 months insurance saved me a fortune and worry)
I crammed my little van full of stuff, including a WB combi boiler we took out of building renovation job in the UK. None of the local trades seem interested in fitting it.
So I am looking at getting a wood burning range type cooker with a back boiler in it to run one or two rads but mainly to provide hot water. When we moved in the house it had a solid fuel heater basically a metal cylinder sat over a fire grate with a cold feed at the bottom and a shower head at the top, it was a bit scary as it didn't have a release valve, anyway after using it twice it developed a leak..my wife was very pleased, its now in the shed! I must say it worked a treat, a little wood made lots of hot water (apart from leaking)
I have been scouring the internet for outlets that may stock them, not much job from OBI and Praktiker.
Sorry for the verbal diarrhoea but Do any of you know of any solid fuel outlets and or fitters down Sumeg way
At the moment we are boiling water up in some old milk churns, all good fun!
Thanks

Peter_in_Hungary

I'm afraid that Sumeg is a bit out of my area to help with tradespeople

However IF your wood burning water heater is what I think it is then you won't get a new one and second hand will be scarce. As I said IF it is what I think it is then the lack of release (relief) valve is not a problem, they were never designed to have one. The water heater is not a pressure vessel and the shower head is the relief for the expansion of the water heating up. The cold coming in at the bottom pushes the hot out of the top (the shower head) Because the shower head is permanently open there is never any pressure build up so a relief valve is not needed. Of course they are not idiot proof and if anyone tried to convert it to say a multi-point with taps on the out flow then explosion would follow, but used as designed should be OK.

Do you know where the leak is? Could it be repaired?

I would caution against a wood burning range type cooker with a back boiler because it will be problematic in the summer. When the temp. get up to 28 or 30+ outside and you have to light the cooker for either cooking or hot water then the house will become a bit (a lot) too warm. The radiators can not be turned off because they act as a heat dump when you want to cook and you already have a tank of hot water. The radiators will also have to be plumbed in on a gravity circuit because you can not rely on a pump to push the water around, also a pumped circuit can over cool the stove and cause tarring up of the chimney - or the Sunday lunch will be ready for supper! Running a gravity circuit is not a problem but it does constrain where the rads and the hot water tank can be fitted. No one here has tanks in the loft because -20deg is too much to put a tank up there.

All in all IMO the wood burning range type cooker with a back boiler are a compromise to squeeze as much function out of a piece of kit as possible and like many compromises attempts lots but does nothing properly.

People without gas use night rate electricity to heat water, usually with a 120ltr tank and immersion heater

With regards to a WB combi (does it have a built in water tank like a gas combi?) unless you have a good supply of wood i.e. your own, or you are prepared to buy logs and saw and chop it your self then gas heating is going to be about the same price as wood heating and a gas combi can be got for about the same price as a decent new chain saw. Also you will only get decent efficiency out of the wood if it is properly dry, which means seasoning it for 2 years. Anything you buy now will have been cut last winter so will be half way there, anything you buy after say the end of October is likely to be freshly cut so unsuitable or at least inefficient and smokey.

I can imagine problems getting tradespeople to fit the WB combi because they will be reluctant to fit something they know nothing about and have not seen before - especially if it is second hand

Does your property have mains gas? If not then at the moment you can get a gas connection plus meter to the property boundary free. Conditions are that you live within the village boundary and a gas main is within 250m. This is a good deal (IMO)

By the way if I may ask what village are you in?

Sachina

I don't know whether it helps but Wamsler hu sell wood burning stoves that provide hot water and central heating. No idea of price, but would imagine they're expensive!

https://en.wamsler.hu/central-heating-cookers

lendusaquid

Hi There
We are In Zalagyömörő, the only Brits in the village!! so the Posta man has told us!
Sorry for the confusion, the WB boiler I was referring to is, in fact, a Worcester Bosch gas combi boiler I have brought over with me.
We do have mains gas in the house with some old stand-alone gas heaters in most of the rooms, (like the old Baxi type)
We just do not have any hot water
Thanks for the advice for the solid fuel range type cooker having read your comments as much as I love wood fires we have decided against a wood burning stove for the heating and hot water. I am hoping to get a good gas fitter who will possibly fit the boiler, I have brought over it is (apparently ) in good working order its a Greenstar 24i JUNIOR more than capable of running what we need. Locals have told us the trades won't like to fit a second-hand boiler if that's the case We will just have to get a new one.
On another completely different subject I am trying to get hold of natural hydraulic lime (NHL 2 and 3.5) and also lime putty plaster does anyone know of a builder's merchants in the Balaton area that stocks traditional lime materials? and good sharp sand I've been scouring the internet using google translate and google.hu with no joy so far.

Peter_in_Hungary

If you have the old style gas convector heaters and you are going to fit a combi boiler then I presume that means central heating as well - i.e pipes and radiators to go with the combi boiler.

The regulations here now mean that new install gas boilers must be of the condensing type but you can repair an existing system as long as parts are available. Is the Greenstar combi a condensing type? if not then apart from the problems of getting a fitter to install a secondhand boiler they will also have to bend the rules about condensing boilers - unlikely.

If it is a condensing boiler then (if you want me to) I will ask my gas man if he would do it and if you are too far (I am near Tapolca) If you want central heating as well how many rads?

Lime putty is readily available in an builders merchant and comes in plastic sacks ready to use. I'm afraid I am not up to speed with NHL 2 and 3.5 but a quick dip into google shows Hungarian specifications for HL 2 and 3.5 so I might expect that if a largish builders merchant was asked for HL 2 or 3. they might know what you are talking about. I know that lime can be got in dry powder form (paper sacks) as well as the putty. Over here lime is used as the plasticisor in mortar and render rather than the chemical admix that is usual in the UK.

Just a point that if you are going to be doing building works then internally walls are usually rendered (sand, lime putty and cement mix) rather than plaster. As a trade plasterers don't exist. After the rendering the decorator will go over the walls with 'glett' which is a fine filler prior to painting. Externally houses are also rendered with a similar mix to internal work.

lendusaquid

Great, Thanks for the info, I remember I posted about a car park Budapest wat and you mentioned you lived at Tapolca (went by the other day on the train)
Hydrated lime is often used to plasticise cement renders and offers some increased breathability this material won't set without cement, lime putty needs a prompt,( such as brick dust, or other pozzolans) hydraulic lime materials contain natural impurities (clays) that make then set without the need for cement, NHL 2 is referred to as feeble NHL 3.5 moderate and NHL 5 Eminently, the higher the number the stronger it is and the less breathable
Walls its what I do here in the UK
if I can get a quote for the gas works and plumbing that would be great, the boiler is a condensing type.
Rads, I reckon a large towel rad in the bathroom and 5 others so 6 in total (has an existing vertical vent, connected a gas heater, perhaps the gas fitter may be able to use for the boiler)
I am back in Hungary on the 6th June if you want to meet up
Cheers
Chris

Peter_in_Hungary

Probably the quick fix for hot water is to install an electric hot water tank which can be got second hand quite cheaply and are about 2kW so could be plugged into the standard socket which here should be rated for 16A so plenty spare. The usual way they are plumbed in is with pressure and heat rated flexible pipes so no big deal there. Getting the combi installed is going be weeks to months especially with the rads.

Your place might have had an electric water tank at some time - most houses have used them at some time. Look for 2 x 12mm bolts sticking out of the wall with some plumbing connections about 123 - 130cm below probably also comming out of the wall and typically over the bath.

If you want to go down the route of an electric water heater for a temp. fix - I have a spare one in the barn.....

For the sharp sand I would suggest you go to the builders merchant who sells such things have a look to see what they have, point to it an say 'I want some of that' and here builders merchants don't deliver so you need to get a transport guy separately or use a trailer if it's a small amount.

Oh did you know that trailers here are 'vehicles' and so have their own number plates, road tax, insurance and MOTs

lendusaquid

Peter_in_Hungary

Do you have a night rate meter? (You will have 2 meters in the meter box) If so this will be separate and additional to the 20A supply and used for water heating, older washing machines and some times freezers. Otherwise the immersion heater coils are available at 1200w, 1600w, 1800w, 2000w and up to 3000 so it is possible to choose how quickly you burn the house down !!! Washing machines are usually 2000w or a bit more. Generally the problem is not the load of the one item but what you want to run concurrently.
I will pm you.

GBA77

Or you could go for something like this which is what I did. It was supposed to be a stop gap but its still being used.
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/18L-36Kw-...EAAOSwX5lc3QD1

The flow is not great but acceptable. Gas in. I use bottled. Short length of the correct rubber gas hose. Mains water in. Hot water out. No need for power - it uses a single or maybe double battery - I forget - to power the igniter. Flexi pipe out to plastic pipes and speed/push connectors. Cold water in via plastic with a dedicated stop cock just in case. I have mine downstairs and the shower is upstairs.

I used a different make to that in the link, but you can shop around. Pretty much instant hot water. Minutes to instal. I was initially concerned about the plastic pipe and the speed/push fit connectors but it works a treat. At least you will have hot water the day you arrive back and or install. That may give you time to sort things properly and the mrs will love you for the hot water.

GBA

lendusaquid

GBA77

Hi.

I dont have it vented outside. I intended to but never got around to it. I just put a gas leak/detector thing near it. Its never gone off so it does not worry me. No smell of gas from it except on the rare occasions the mrs is over here and she takes bloody ages in the shower. I just open a window.
I have the gas bottle in a small room under the stairs and adjacent to the room where the water heater is fitted.
I do drain the water system in winter along with the water heater as well. No problems from it so far so it owes me nothing. If it packed up I would have another the same day. Maybe just get all the fittings you need in the UK simply for ease until you learn where the various suppliers are in your area. They not that fond of plastic water pipes here and its difficult to get the speed/push loc fittings.

I havnt got around to the central heating as yet. I do need to get it sorted soon though but when its too cold here I go back to the UK.

Peter mentioned that the gas supply or something is free - maybe I read that incorrectly and I will post a question to him tomorrow. He has been here a long time and his knowledge is invaluable.

My place had no electric, water or gas connections. Electric and water were the first and essential services that needed doing.

With the little instant water heater I think just manage your expectations, but for what I needed it to do, its been great. Mine feeds the kitchen sink and the shower and wash hand basin upstairs. You cant use all at hot taps at once and if someone is in the shower its easy enough to hear and then not use the hot water elsewhere. You just need to play around with the settings so its comfortable for you. Then the Mrs will play around as well and so life goes on.

GBA

lendusaquid

GBA77

You can but the sort of "thick" walled 15mm we use is hard to get here. They seem to use a plastic coated metal type pipe with compression fittings here. Does the job.
Dont forget a box of the metal inserts along with the fittings. Well my fittings needed the inserts. Maybe yours dont.
If you plan ahead you can get screw fix (EU) to deliver and if its over 50 quid - or euro - i forget- the deliver is free. But then you have to wait for it and I dont know about you but its most annoying having to wait for just a few small fittings or bit and bobs needed to finish a job.

I know of a place in Nagykanizsa that stocks the pipe and fittings but thats a bit of a distance from you.

Cheers

lendusaquid