Viewing properties
 

We are in Hungary for two weeks. Viewed two properties so far. First one was in good decorative order and had two outbuildings, which included a sauna, utility room and shower/toilet, the other outbuilding a make-shift summer kitchen and toilet/shower. It also had a double garage and an incredibly long garden (plot size 2,225 sq m) with two metre high fencing all the way round. All bedrooms were a good size and the kitchen was big enough for a dining table. It's one downfall was you couldn't see the garden from inside the house unless you stepped into the extended "conservatory". No nice views from the kitchen or dining room and snug except towards the sauna outbuilding! Decided this was not for us but we can't get out of our head the garden! The snug would only have room for a sofa, armchair and the TV! The dining room would be perfect for those christmas or special family gatherings! The second house was a work in progress and had not been finished. There were three other couples viewing at the same time but we both felt it was in the wrong location and the layout wasn't for us. Unlike the first one the builder had attempted to make this one more modern and although more to our "modern" taste we prefer something with a hint of old hungarian. Am I making sense? There's one more property to view next week and it's not too far from where my wife's family live. The owners of the first one are known to friends of ours and the husband has done some work on their house! Small world!
The first house also seemed to have three boilers, one in kitchen, one in shower/toilet and one in the utility room. Our thoughts are .... heating bills are going to be high! Surprisingly there was no bath in this house!!! It didn't look like there was room for a bath to be fitted! Unless you considered the utility outbuilding which my wife isn't keen on the idea of venturing outside to do the washing and I would think ... going to a good soak in a hot bath!
We have just been told there's a fourth property for sale on the same road as the sister-in-law so we might make enquiries before we return to UK end of next week!
The parents-in-law have offerd us the opportunity to convert some of their outbuildings to accomodation for us but we think they would be too small, unless a long extension was added, and the building works would be too much hassle for them especially at this time of their life when they are struggling to cope with every day life. Our house in UK is three bedrooms, end of terrace and a garage at the bottom of the garden which could fit two cars. We have a loft too! I can't see how all out stuff would fit in the converted outbuildings so it looks like our best option is to think of ourselves and find a house big enough and preferably a bigger size than our house in the UK.
Ideally, the sister-in-law's house is the kind of house we want. Everything seems to be in the right place .... but we should not be surprised because the sister-in-law's husband built it! We might crack a joke before we go home we'd like to buy their house!

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If the parents-in-law (p-i-l) have offered the opportunity to convert an out building and your problem is the size that sort of implies that the location and garden size etc. is ok.

If the p-i-l are getting on and can just cope with daily life - this situation will get worse......So if the p-i-l house is suitable for you (even with changes) have you thought about converting the outbuilding for the p-i-l and moving in to the main house. This would solve the future issues of the p-i-l needing extra help and perhaps give you a property you like.

Lots of thought and discussion needed with p-i-l and the rest of the family before you go down this route but this can work, we had my m-i-l with us for 10 years and it worked.

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It had crossed our minds for the p-i-l to move into the converted building because the access would be by a gentle slope whereas main house via steps which they are finding difficult. We could put in a bathroom with toilet and walk in shower big enough for a special chair and grab handles. But their house is quite small, more of a one bedroomed house. A friend suggested extending it but it is not our house and I personally don't want to put this idea to them. One snag they do have alot of stuff in the outbuildings and so do we in our loft and garage.
Thanks Peter in Hungary for your suggestion.

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The way such things can work here is that on of the children buy out the other children from the parents house and then live in - or in your case take over the main building and convert the out building and the implication is then that the child buying out looks after the parents. This is where the discussion with the parents and the rest of the family come in - everyone has to be happy with the deal, but it does solve care problems coming down the line.

For us actually my m-i-l said she wanted to move in with us so we called a family meeting where she said she would sell her flat and divide the proceeds, after expenses, between the children. M-i-l wanted a small sum for herself and part of the expenses were converting our place to have a downstairs bathroom and separate heating controls. We took control of her finances (which she found getting too much) and took her pension for her upkeep. It was all agreed with her and the family and it worked well until she past away. But it dos need everyone to the happy at the outset and there is no real way to go back!

For my mother (back in the UK) such a solution was not feasible so the (UK) usual solution was needed which was down size her house to a flat then have live in care then when that was no longer feasible she went into a home at 1900 quid a month all of which had a different set of problems.

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Have fun viewing!
You will probably see a lot more houses for sale which are not advertised, just an Elado sign on it or in a window, so don't restrict yourselves and most importantly don't be rushed into buying something which is 'almost' right. You will be living in your choice for a good few years and things that seemed minor imperfections when you bought can turn into annoying mountains after a while.
Very best of luck!

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Good luck! It took us pretty much 5 years to find our place after a few false starts! We looked at so many houses and there was quite the range of condition and lay outs.........

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Am starting to think I have to take the initiative. I'm the one with the finance to ensure my super duper parents in law can have a comfortable life courtesy of a bit of luck with my first property. I made a significant profit due to the area becoming upwardly mobile. I hadn't predicted it. I was gritting my teeth whether I'd made a good investment. My second property value has not risen as high but it is reasonably good.
I'm going to bite the bullet tomorrow and hopefully sister in law will accept the idea. I'm 11000% wife will be on board. Actually mother in law did suggest we bought their home and they go into old people's home but we both agreed no way. We will look after them.
Thanks for everyone's comments. I feel so much better.
Hey, soon I might be your nearest neighbour.
Am visiting Sachina tomorrow.

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What sort of questions should I ask about the construction of any property? My Hungarian wife told me today her parents house is part mud brick, whatever that means. It looks pretty solid to me so I'm a little puzzled what I should look for. The outbuildings are normal brick.

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We have decided not to carry out any conversion works. The house needs a new roof and a friend has suggested rebuilding the outbuildings. There are three huge walnut trees. One or two would need chopping down. Another needs branches cut back due to extending beyond their border.
It's more than likely we will rent until we find the right house.

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Neighbours of my sister in law know quite a bit what's happening locally so the first property we viewed is now out of the question. A third property we were to view is also out. Estate agent is a friend of sister in law. Neighbours not nice!!
Sigh...

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Ahh! Yes. The biggest problem you will find is not finding a suitable property it is find one in a suitable place!
If I had known about all the barking dogs in my street I would have never bought the house.
Another one we viewed at the week end, and looking over the high wall at the end of the garden revealed a garage/scrapyard, I didn't need to view during the week to know how much noise was going to come from there.
Viewed a lovely pleasant property out in the country, ideal in ever way, except for the pig farm hiding just behind the trees.

Don't loose heart, but don't get frustrated and jump too quick, Good luck!

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Barking dogs wouldn't bother me. I have become accustomed to it from all my visits to where my wife's family live. Everyone knows when someone is walking up or down the road from the chorus of barking that starts at one end or the other. No doubt once we get over there they will all hear a different dog barking and think where's that coming from!!! That would be from Archie our sprocker! Not sure if our GSD will survive long enough to get a taste of Hungary! Atleast all the family have met her but not Archie.
Scrapyward - at one point the garden of a neighbour in the UK looked like a scrapyard it got to the point whereby it rose above the six foot wall. This is a terrace house I'm talking about so can you imagine how bad it looked. After eight months I had no alternative but to report it to the council. He seems to be a bit of a hoarder and even uses one of his cars as a "mobile" storage unit! The garden is now clear. No doubt the wife of the man next door must have been ecstatic because she couldn't hang any washing outside! I wouldn't want to live next door to a scrapyard either because of the additional traffic and possible leakage of fuel in any scrapped vehicles.
Buying land and building a house - this has been an option on and off. There's a plot of land near my sister in law but her husband mentioned it had been used as landfill at some stage so won't be 100% stable. Surpisingly a property has been built smack in the middle of it but not reaching the full length from road to boundary. The owners are now building additional buildings for .... wait for it .... a kennels where they intend to breed dogs .... I've been told the breed is .... corgis ...(I am not joking!). I think it's a wind up. Am quite surprised it's been approved because it is close to a cemetery and I don't think it would go down too well the existing dogs and additional "stud" dogs barking their heads off as mourners say good bye to a loved one!
Now we are back in the UK I can see why we weren't sure of the two properties we viewed. The flow going from room to room is better in our current house. I'm certain the right house is out there somewhere.

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What's the term used to describe fibre optic broadband? When in Hungary I've never been able to spot a fibre optic cable connecting to a property!

It's now five days since we returned to UK. Initially I thought I can't leave this area because we really like it and we like our UK house but .... after twenty-four hours that soon wore off and we've been asking ourselves what are we doing here! No new properties have popped up on Ingatlan although the prices have changed. Interestingly, one we didn't like has gone up a couple of thousand. Still that one is in the wrong location.

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Afaik it's " üvegszálas kábel " which the Telekom has put in this spring in our village near Hévíz and probably in many other places too.
We switched everything to this:
Phone, TV and internet

Re: Viewing properties
 

When looking at houses the only thing you can't change is the location and allied to this is the fact that the only thing you have no control over is the neighbours activities, anything else you can alter or rebuild.

Mud brick aka adobe aka vályogtégla is a brick made of sun dried clay type earth with a binder (usually straw). special consideration is needed when altering or maintaining these houses otherwise disaster can result. They are susceptible to wet and damp which can 'melt ' the bricks. Mortgage providers don't like them which for me says enough.

There are some timber frame houses in Hungary, but not many. I would not buy a timber frame house unless I had overseen the construction. With timber frame attention to detail in the construction process is vital and cutting corners or slapdash work can cause the framework to rot out some years down the line. Also unless the insulation within the walls is done correctly and to a high standard the insulation can slump which means that for those areas the insulation level will be that of plasterboard and what ever external skin there is - effectively none. Again mortgage providers don't like them and many will not lend against them.

Stone / rubble construction is used where stone is available locally. This type of construction is more robust than mud brick or timber frame and whilst care is still needed with repairs and alterations most builders can manage these with out causing damage.

Mud brick and stone / rubble will be the older houses. More modern construction will be occasionally of small brick or more likely block of some size. Cavity wall as in the UK is unknown here. A brick or block house will have foundations but not necessarily a damp course. This type of construction is easy to modify and / or extend.

A lot of houses here have cracks in the walls. Cracks over windows at the lintel ends are less important but cracks at the corners indicate subsidence and IMO probably a walk away unless other desirable factors make the (expensive) repairs worth the effort. With older houses doors can be a good indication of movement, is the door frame still square with the door? Insulation in older (30 years+) houses (even brick or block) can be little to non-existent and most houses will probably need a re-wire. Roofs can also be a weak point and many were put up using asbestos cement tiles. These have a life span of 50 years or so, are expensive to dispose of and the timbers won't take the weight of new tiles - so it is a new roof. Not a problem, just an expense that need to be factored in (just like replacement doors and windows).

The population in the UK tended to be mobile and the housing market reflected this with people moving house every 7 - 10 years (on average) this meant that upgrades (kitchen, bathroom heating etc.) would get done with the new owners. The population in Hungary was much more stable, particularly in villages so expect to find internal features dating from the previous generations (parents or even grandparents).

Buying a plot and building your own is much more common here than in the UK. and can have the advantage that you get what you want without extending or modifying and done properly (the key) can mean virtually no heating bills in the winter and cool in the summer. But as with anywhere builders have to be watched to ensure the attention to detail that will reduce problems down the line.

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Thanks Peter. Me thinks I would be better off getting a surveyor in to do a report. I did ask my sister in law's estate agent friend about this process but think something was lost in translation as he indicated he could do it. Rather it be someone else. Atleast we have relatives/friends who have some knowledge on the construction of houses.

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There seems to be a boom in house sales here in Bükkszék at the moment. So many houses are changing hands it's hard to keep up and a lot of properties new on the market don't hang around for long. Prices are also on the way up. Unfortunately, many of the houses are being bought by out-of-towners as holiday homes (we have a thermal spa in the village) and quite a few are being turned into guesthouses by locals. The downside to this is the real chance that Bükkszék will become a ghost town out of season. There used to be 2 pubs and 2 shops in the centre, there is now only 1 of each and both are for sale. We used to run one of the pubs and there wasn't enough business on a daily basis to make it viable.
The positive thing is that houses are still cheap, with plenty for sale for under 10million. What we have noticed is that OTP have signed up many of the vendors and the prices of those houses have gone up by a couple of million overnight. What was previously for sale privately for 10 million is suddenly up for 12.
Some friends of ours have been trying to sell their house here and buy another in the village for several months so we've been viewing potential houses with them and there's a massive difference in how people present their properties when selling them. No-one seems to prepare a house for an easy sale as they do in Britain...clean, tidy, decorated appropriately etc.

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You are right, an estate agent is not the person to do a survey. You need a structural engineer who will give a proper written report and have liability for his findings. You will need to specify what you want and the level of detail to be undertaken e.g. is the statement no cracks evident in the walls therefore foundations presumed to be OK sufficient or do you want the surveyor to dig down a to discover what the foundations actually are etc.

Unfortunately not many people have structural surveys done in Hungary so finding someone to d it may not be easy. As in the UK estate agents and mortgage providers do valuation surveys which fall short of a structural survey.

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Presumably because the OTP want their %age on sale and the owners want a price so what the OTP charge goes on top of what the owner wants so the price goes up (plus a bit)

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Peter and Paul said it better than I ever could!
The different types of construction we also find in the village around us - some things like asbestos would have been a no-go for me, others can be repaired. You just need money.
A simple example:
Our house and the former stables (now two garages and a workplace) are adobe so when we had to repair the roofs we followed the advice of the young builder and had his people construct rings of fortified (iron) concrete on the top.
On top of this we could build a second floor, smaller than the lower floor, and the new roof.

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I have been sent photos of a house but annoyingly some are in portrait when landscape would give a much better picture of the room. I note the neighbours have quite a long building with no guttering on their side of the property from the photos. Would have thought it should have them otherwise the rain would come off the roof like a waterfall. It's also next to a bus stop. I'm not sure if I'd be happy bus passengers constantly looking at the house and garden whilst they are waiting for a bus. The timetable states one bus every hour. I would also be worried the bus passengers complaining they are scared of the dogs but I suppose they could always wait for bus away from entrance to the property. Haven't received the plot and house square metres yet although I could work out the house size from the plans.

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Damn, there's a property on Ingatlan which I discounted due to it's layout and small size but have been reconsidering whether to view or not. Should have viewed it when we were in Hungary. We only need one bedroom with one room with a sofabed for visitors so it would be the perfect size. But my wife feels it's too isolated with neighbours only on one side nearer the road. Ah well, can't win them all. Will have to keep looking.

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Have just missed out on another property same road as parents-in-law. Only information we have been told is the property has sold but it's still on Ingatlan. No 'Sold STC' or equivalent.

Back to square one.

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My wife is returning from Hungary tonight. She viewed five properties. My favourite seems to be completely out of the picture. It's one of those half floor level houses. The interior is immaculate but the layout according to my wife is all wrong. Also very boring and no character! My wife's favourite is actually two houses and according to the current owners was one property (bungalow). Part, the slightly lower level, was sectioned off so the owner's mother could live independently. Unfortunately, there's no interior access between the two so you have to go outside and walk a few feet to get to the other's front door. I think re-configuring the layout and re-instating the original door way would be too much hassle.
Ah well, looks like we might have to continue looking. The alternative is for myself to fly out there and ask a local friend if he could accompany me so we could discuss the options. I might also ask if the current owners could tell us where the original door way used to be.
I'm feeling quite gutted because my favourite is on the same road as the parents-in-law and just down the road from the sister-in-law. We are also both known to neighbours who live next to the parents-in-law and along the same road so thought if we needed any help on something there'd be plenty of neighbours who could point us in the right direction.

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Frustrating isn't it! Never mind, keep looking.

We have just had an offer on an apartment accepted, of course being here makes it so much easier. We assessed at least a hundred on the internet (since June), recced about 30 (location, exterior, etc), viewed 6 - & finally found what we wanted. Not too bad as we were being pretty picky.

Just got to sell ours now...

Good luck with your ongoing search!

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My wife is bringing homes enlarged plans of both properties. It appears my wife's favourite property floor plan does not match the photos at one end of the house, i.e. there should be a garage with no doors but on the floor plan there's a normal size door and a window! Also for my favourite property there's a small house where the owner's mother lived. No mention of this on Ingatlan.

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Hi FenTiger, just sticking my nose in here because I caught sight of your thread title and I love anything to do with property :) Given the work that your wife's favourite property would seem to need, is it worth looking also at your favourite again to see if the layout can be changed to better suit you both? Boring and no character can be fixed easily with furniture and decorating. Best of luck with coming up with something that suits you both :thumbup:

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Knowing the "typical" Magyar female I suspect that remodelling is definitely on the cards! :lol:

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;-) I could always live in my favourite house and my wife in the small house where the current owners mother lived!
Will discuss with wife tomorrow. I'm picking her up 11pm UK time.

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I had to look up 'Magyar' :o I've only had a too brief 2 week visit to Hungary, and then only saw the two sides of Budapest, but that tiny taste made me want to see and experience more.

Referring back to another thread that discussed the difference between tourism and travelling, I was obviously a tourist. But we did do what we usually do, rented an apartment from a local and shopped for groceries etc, I don't see the point in going to another country and not at least making an effort to interact with local people. The apartment was next to a little cafe (I know that's not the right word) and we'd sit there for hours drinking carafes of red and talking with the owner (whose English was fantastic compared to my zero Hungarian). Quite often the men who were working on roads nearby would call in for a quick wine or beer, and then go back to work. I would so love to go back and spend some time travelling around.

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I don't think Mrs FenTiger would be too thrilled with that :lol:

Happy homecoming! (I hope you've cleaned the house) :D

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You should come back SoS, só much to see & do, particularly if you can also get out of the city. If travelling extensively outside of Budapest doesn't appeal you can still get to Szentendre, Vác, Visegrád & Esztergom (the original Capital - up by the Slovak border), by boat / hydrofoil. These are all quite different to Budapest.

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Mrs.FenTiger is looking forward to flying "home". She's been missing Archie, our sprocker.

Last two properties she has lived in didn't need any remodelling but 98% of properties we've seen on Ingatlan needed updating. I've been through updating the kitchen at my first property in U.K.. It dragged on and on. Even worse one of my best friends pinched my builder so I only had use of him on one weekend day instead of two. There wasn't much more to do so I sacked him. I did the tiling on the walls myself. I also put down the flooring. That was more than eighteen years ago and I don't have the energy to do so much. I've been decorating our UK house past month or so on and off.

Haven't done much cleaning. I've had manflu past two weeks and yesterday had very painful earache. Our dog is also continually coming inside with muddy paws and leaves.

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I concur what Expatrick says about getting out of Budapest. I've mostly explored the north east of Hungary and also been to Keszelly (spelling?).

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Update: As of tonight we received an offer (STC) on our flat - which we accepted.
So, fingers crossed it all goes through...

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Will there be any remodelling of the property? ;)

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That we are buying, no.

That we are selling, the buyer is a mature lady architect, with some chronic back problems & she is very short - so she is going to have the kitchen wall cupboards altered / lowered - otherwise no.

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Hi Expatrick. Can I just ask how much under the asking price can you offer in Budapest. Would love a bolthole in BP but have to persuade the OH. Seems to be loads for sale and I was wondering what you can get away with in terms of offers on apartments.
Thanks

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Hi! I hesitate to try & offer a hard & fast rule but in our case the buyer offered 2.5 % less than the asking price. Naturally sellers usually expect an offer below the asking price, as a generalisation 5 % would certainly seem reasonable, but you may, occasionally get away with 10%. I think you have to try & judge how reasonable / sensible the asking price is!

​​​​​​Wh at District do you have in mind? At the moment Districts 1,2,5 & 12 do achieve close to asking price.

Edited: Don't be frightened of offering below the asking price - there's always a negotiation to be done!

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One thing to remember when putting in an offer, once you make an offer you can always go up but you can't go down. If you can find out how for long the place has been on the market this can be a guide. If it has been on for a long time then it is probably over priced. Also if the sellers have somewhere they want to buy then a lower price for a quick sale might work as might a cash (no bank loan) help. On the other hand if the sellers are selling their parents place which is empty - so no rush then they can / will wait for the market to catch up with their inflated price. It is worth doing some homework to determine the sellers situation. A local situation here was a large property on the market for 65M for 10 years recently sold for 48M. the owners health deteriorated and they wanted to sell.

I did hear that every 4 property purchase was with the governments family support grant. This is distorting the housing market (as do all grants and subsidies distort the market place)

Don't forget that in Hungary solicitors don't do searches. If you want searches done you will have to do your own or detail exactly what you want from the solicitor and ask if he will do the job. Usually here the job of the solicitor is to make sure that the sale is legal, they do not act in the best interest of either party but act neutrally to ensure all is within the law, anything other than this will have to be agreed beforehand.